Pac-10 Expansion Hits Roadblock

NT80 · June 17, 2010

How do you sell a Boise-less WAC to Mom in the recruit's living room? How? What do you say differently that you couldn't say with the Belt? Just curious.

You say a team from the WAC can go to BCS Bowls and be in the National media spotlight and Top10 polls; a team from the SBC, No.

greenminer · June 17, 2010

Just a thought, but I still think Boise is top-10 Boise no matter what conference they are in. And if them being in the WAC did not help the rest of the conference, what would a WAC without Boise do for us?

Hawaii got a great run out of June Jones, and has been faltering since (right? I haven't been paying attention lol)

You know what we can learn from all this? Take care of ourselves first (approach every game to win) no matter who we play, then get in a conference that makes sense financially and regionally.

Edited June 17, 2010 by greenminer

mrsgreengoblin · June 17, 2010

Say what you will, but since we hired him our recruiting has been outstanding. Also we have a brand new $78 million dollar stadium being built right across the highway. Of course I would like to have more wins, but we have made progress since he's been here. When I found out Todd Dodge was coming to North Texas, I was not expecting him to turn our program around in less than 2 years.

TD is not the reason we got the stadium. I'm strictly talking about your comment that the higher the risk the greater the reward. Forget the recruits for now too since the recruits many times can only be as good as their coach. It hasn't translated into wins. My point is that the higher the risk is not necessarily the higher the reward with TD being a great example in my book. If he turns it around this year I will totally be willing to eat my words.

Oh, and to get back on topic with that, WAC is not worth the risk.

Edited June 17, 2010 by mrsgreengoblin

cdizzle86 · June 17, 2010

TD is not the reason we got the stadium. I'm strictly talking about your comment that the higher the risk the greater the reward. Forget the recruits for now too since the recruits many times can only be as good as their coach. It hasn't translated into wins. My point is that the higher the risk is not necessarily the higher the reward with TD being a great example in my book. If he turns it around this year I will totally be willing to eat my words.

Oh, and to get back on topic with that, WAC is not worth the risk.

If you think TD had nothing to do with the stadium, then we will have to agree to disagree. Yes we may not be winning a lot, but ever since his hire there has been a buzz created that has helped spark our university's commitment to athletics.

LongJim · June 17, 2010

You say a team from the WAC can go to BCS Bowls and be in the National media spotlight and Top10 polls; a team from the SBC, No.

The Sun Belt has the same shot at a BCS Bowl as the WAC. It also has the same shot to be in the Top 10 polls. Take care of business and build your program, and that's what happens.

Edited June 17, 2010 by LongJim

VideoEagle · June 17, 2010

You say a team from the WAC can go to BCS Bowls and be in the National media spotlight and Top10 polls; a team from the SBC, No.

No team from the SBC has gone undefeated so you can't logically say they can't get into national media or crack the top 10. The reason they have not gotten the attention is NOT because of their conference but more likely because they haven't gone undefeated yet. I don't think any have won 10 games in a season but I might be wrong about that. 9-3 teams in the WAC are not going to be Top 25 teams either. There is no evidence at all that when a SBC finally does get 10 or 11 teams they won't be ranked at least in the top 15. An undefeated SBC team probably would be ranked higher based on what happened when Mac teams of similar backgrounds to SBC teams did well.

CMJ · June 17, 2010

If you think TD had nothing to do with the stadium, then we will have to agree to disagree. Yes we may not be winning a lot, but ever since his hire there has been a buzz created that has helped spark our university's commitment to athletics.

I disagree completely. If anything, I think RV has been the the one that got the buzz started. Dodge had about 3 months of positive coverage. Other than that he hasn't contributed much at all but blowout losses.

NT80 · June 17, 2010

No team from the SBC has gone undefeated so you can't logically say they can't get into national media or crack the top 10. The reason they have not gotten the attention is NOT because of their conference but more likely because they haven't gone undefeated yet. I don't think any have won 10 games in a season but I might be wrong about that. 9-3 teams in the WAC are not going to be Top 25 teams either. There is no evidence at all that when a SBC finally does get 10 or 11 teams they won't be ranked at least in the top 15. An undefeated SBC team probably would be ranked higher based on what happened when Mac teams of similar backgrounds to SBC teams did well.

A WAC conference schedule is rated higher than an SBC conference schedule (ie stronger teams as a whole). Thus the power rankings for an undefeated WAC team (like Boise) are greater and more likely to be higher in the polls.

UNTFan23 · June 17, 2010

A WAC conference schedule is rated higher than an SBC conference schedule (ie stronger teams as a whole). Thus the power rankings for an undefeated WAC team (like Boise) are greater and more likely to be higher in the polls.

The problem with your assertion is you are considering Boise, who is now leaving the WAC. The WAC's power rating is going to take a major hit. I'm sure Fresno St. is giddy since the only other school they'll have to contend with is Nevada. Idaho was the only other school to post a winning record last season.

mrsgreengoblin · June 17, 2010

I disagree completely. If anything, I think RV has been the the one that got the buzz started. Dodge had about 3 months of positive coverage. Other than that he hasn't contributed much at all but blowout losses.

I'm on the boat with him. I give a lot of credit to RV as well. Not much to TD at all if any. But again, to be on topic "just say no" to WAC.

keith · June 17, 2010

The WAC even without Boise is a better conference than the Sun Belt. Look at power ratings. Check Phil Steele. Add them up...last year, this year, whatever. The Belt doesn't even match up to the MAC.

<snip>

Is that because....*cough*....ummmm....*cough*.....well, a certain, you know....team.....has been....*cough*....dragging down the, you know, Sun Belt's ratings and the SoS of our current conference mates?

In other words, would it instantly become (Sun Belt - NT) > (WAC - BSU + NT)?

Keith

Rudy · June 17, 2010

Sure the list of FORMER WAC teams is impressive.

Care to create the list of impressive former Sun Belt teams?

The point is that the WAC could be a stepping stone to a better conference. Its history shows that. My beef with the WAC is that it needs more teams in the central time zone.

The SBC has not been around as long as the WAC. All of those "impressive" former WAC members have been out of the WAC so long, I doubt ANYONE knows they are former members. In about 5-10 years, you will have to remind people that Boise was in the WAC.

And noone has answered my question as to what automatic bowl tie ins the WAC will still have after the inHumanitarin Bowl and the Hawaii Bowl leave, and where the WAC's conference champ plays. Is the answer so bad that the pro WAC people won't admit it?

Look, our athletic program nearly died when we were in the Big West. These are the SAME DAMN TEAMS,with the exception of San Jose St, Fresno St, and Boise. The first two are in California. They replace the other Cali schools that we had to fly our teams out to in the Big West days.

All of the excitement that the program has been building has been because of the teams in the Sun Belt and the close proximity of most of the road trips and the NOB. If you put us back in the Big West pt 2, I think alot of the excitement will die. Who is going to be excited to play ANYONE in the conference?

CMJ · June 17, 2010

Actually Rudy...Boise WAS in the Big West when we were.

Rudy · June 17, 2010

Yes, but they are no longer in the WAC. That's what I was saying. The WAC is the same as the Big West, SJSU and FSU are replacements for the other Cali teams, and Boise, who is now gone. I remember, we used to beat them.

wardly · June 18, 2010

our big west conference record was: 1996, 3-2,3rd ; 1997,2-3,4th ; 1998, 3-2,2nd ; 1999, 1-5,7th; 2000,1-4,tied for 4th. we didn't exactly tear the big west up.

CMJ · June 18, 2010

our big west conference record was: 1996, 3-2,3rd ; 1997,2-3,4th ; 1998, 3-2,2nd ; 1999, 1-5,7th; 2000,1-4,tied for 4th. we didn't exactly tear the big west up.

No kidding.

To this day, I'm still surprised that 1997 didn't do better. That was a decent team with 2 of the more memorable wins of my fandom. How we ended up 4-7 (overall) I'll never know.

houstonmeangreen · June 18, 2010

and what is our record in the Sunbelt the last 3 years?

UNTFan23 · June 18, 2010

and what is our record in the Sunbelt the last 3 years?

If we're going to compare our record while in the Big West, let's look at our record for the entire time we've been in the Belt.

UNTLifer · June 18, 2010

If we're going to compare our record while in the Big West, let's look at our record for the entire time we've been in the Belt.

But that doesn't fit the argument!

wardly · June 18, 2010

If we're going to compare our record while in the Big West, let's look at our record for the entire time we've been in the Belt.

we have lost as many belt conference games as we have won. i think we are 1 game over 500.

rcade · June 19, 2010

I think it would be a huge mistake to jump aboard the WAC's sinking ship. Take away the history of the name, and it's another Big West -- a regional conference in a region that makes no sense for UNT to be in. The Sun Belt is regionally much better for us, and it continues to improve each year. I think the odds are pretty good the Belt will be a stronger conference than the WAC in five years.

shaft · June 19, 2010

The SBC is now a better conference than the WAC. Boise skewed all of the favorable rankings for the WAC, without the Broncos the WAC is a really bad conference.

The Belt is still a better fit for NT.

LA Tech should be really worried about Boise's move. Without the BCS cash the WAC's travel schedule is going to take its toll LA Tech's budget.