Unt And Conference Changes

UNT90 · June 10, 2010

Let's just be happy with what we have.

That's been the problem and isn't the solution.

UNT90 · June 10, 2010

We have all been disappointed with Todd Dodge but to say that he's been the worst hire is foolish. At the time of his hire there was little opposition, even among those who preferred another candidate. Todd had an excellent reputation and that reputation has had a major part in the new stadium, the improvement in the talent pool and cleaning up the mess that was our football program. Those things are forgotten because he didn't win. He underestimated the depth of the problem and overestimated his ability to solve it without the right help. Let us hope that he has finally hit upon the right combination and that there's a dramatic turnaround this year.

I didn't call him the worst hire. But he should go down as the worst hire ever IF we get the shaft in realignment. Why? Because we then will be facing a future with very little hope for becoming what we should be able to become.

Think how much of a better position we would be in if we were coming off an 8-4 bowl year where we averaged 25 or 26k heading into a new stadium.

Maybe we get into a better conference and none of this matters, but if not, I think the Dodge hire ends up being a disaster of epic porportions, no matter what happens from here on out.

foutsrouts · June 10, 2010

I didn't call him the worst hire. But he should go down as the worst hire ever IF we get the shaft in realignment. Why? Because we then will be facing a future with very little hope for becoming what we should be able to become.

Think how much of a better position we would be in if we were coming off an 8-4 bowl year where we averaged 25 or 26k heading into a new stadium.

Maybe we get into a better conference and none of this matters, but if not, I think the Dodge hire ends up being a disaster of epic porportions, no matter what happens from here on out.

Yes, it is hard not to agree that his hiring may have cost us a lot more than 3 (NOT 4 PLEASE!) horrible seasons. I guess it's all water under the bridge at this point, and all we can do now is hope that this turns out to be a legitimate turnaround season, and that the conference situation somehow turns out well for us. I'll be among the first to become a coach basher if we still stink after game 3 this Fall, but I guess I'm ready to just sit back for the moment and let him have his last go at it.

Side Show Joe · June 10, 2010

It looks like the sky is falling right now, and many here seem to be worried that after this round of realignment we will be left out forever. Finger pointing and calling out our coach isn't going to improve the odds of advancing our program. I'm not happy with the record either, but he's already on the hot seat. Complaining about him isn't going to change the past. UNT hired a high school coach for $275 K. Looking back, if we would have spent $2 M, we could have hired June Jones, but we didn't and probably couldn't. As long as Dodge is our coach I'm going to support him. It is whats best for our team. I like the coaching additions he has made. I hope they pay off.

If someone has a plan for improving our realignment position that we can collectively execute, I'd like to hear it.

Realignment might happen fast or slow. Either way, we can only focus on what we can control. I'm going to make every home game, and buy an extra general admission ticket. An extra $10 and walking through the gates twice is not asking too much of me. I'm going to wear a kelly green North Texas shirt to every game and make noise for our team, so I won't here the endzone seats waving in the wind. I'm going to try to make the ULM game because it's not that far of a drive. And I'm going to try and talk some of the pseudo tailgaters into actually going in the stadium and supporting the team. Aside from that I don't know what else I can do.

UNT90 · June 10, 2010

It looks like the sky is falling right now, and many here seem to be worried that after this round of realignment we will be left out forever. Finger pointing and calling out our coach isn't going to improve the odds of advancing our program. I'm not happy with the record either, but he's already on the hot seat. Complaining about him isn't going to change the past. UNT hired a high school coach for $275 K. Looking back, if we would have spent $2 M, we could have hired June Jones, but we didn't and probably couldn't. As long as Dodge is our coach I'm going to support him. It is whats best for our team. I like the coaching additions he has made. I hope they pay off.

If someone has a plan for improving our realignment position that we can collectively execute, I'd like to hear it.

Realignment might happen fast or slow. Either way, we can only focus on what we can control. I'm going to make every home game, and buy an extra general admission ticket. An extra $10 and walking through the gates twice is not asking too much of me. I'm going to wear a kelly green North Texas shirt to every game and make noise for our team, so I won't here the endzone seats waving in the wind. I'm going to try to make the ULM game because it's not that far of a drive. And I'm going to try and talk some of the pseudo tailgaters into actually going in the stadium and supporting the team. Aside from that I don't know what else I can do.

No doubt people thought Dodge was the right hire at the time. I'm not calling out our coach. I will support him as long as he is coach of the team. But, to ignore that this may have cost us dearly is just intellectually dishonest.

Who knows, maybe we get an invite to the MWC,Coach Dodge wins 9 games this year, and we all live happily ever after, but I really think we need to be honest about the flip side of that coin.

MeanGreenHoops · June 10, 2010

I find it funny how people think Dodge's hire will keep us from greener pastures. This is and always has been about money, and we don't have it. Even some schools who have it like SMU and Baylor don't have enough of it. Winning won't help TCU or Boise in this. The only way Dodge could have changed our fortunes in this and got us in with the big boys, would have been if he had somehow figured a way to make us draw the kind of revenue Texas or Oklahoma does for the conferences. Maybe if he had figured out a way to get the NCAA to allow us and only us to have nude strippers on the field during our games causing our games to become the highest rated TV show on TV , and subsequently allowing us to choose who could be in a conference with us.

DeepGreen · June 10, 2010

You know what...

After seeing all that is going down now, I'm convinced that it doesn't matter what we do. Oklahoma shedding conference partners it has had for over 100 years to hook up with Arizona and Arizona State says it all. And, teaming up with Texas to pressure Nebraska out first so they don't look culpable. I'd have never believed it until I saw it today.

I take back every bad thing I've ever said about Rick Villareal. Building a winning program doesn't matter (just ask Missouri and Kansas State...heck, ask Boise State at this point). Loyalty doesn't matter. Geography doesn't matter. Traditional rivals don't matter.

Nothing matters but TV money. And, remember, though...it's amateur, right? All for the kids' sake.
I say, from here on out, screw the whole lot of the money-grubbing whores. Quit scheduling them. Let them go play with themselves.

They've been trying for the better part of two decades to shed schools like us. They don't even have loyalty or concern for longtime conference mates, so they sure as hell aren't going to hold the door open for us?

If we started winning, we'd just be another pain in the rear for them to deal with - like Fresno State, Boise State, and Utah before us. Few money whore schools will schedule them; they just want them to go away.

Let's just win the Sun Belt this year and begin enjoying our new stadium next year. Tailgate, be happy, and forget about it. Let's just be happy with what we have.

Great post. It's all about the Benjamins, the hell with conference loyalty and 100 year old traditions. People like DeLoss Dodds and the Whorns are the reason college football as we know it is about to be in shambles.

And be on the lookout for payments to "student-athletes" and unionization in years to come. Yep, the "Student Athletes College Players Association".

Edited June 10, 2010 by DeepGreen

houstonmeangreen · June 10, 2010

I find it funny how people think Dodge's hire will keep us from greener pastures. This is and always has been about money, and we don't have it. Even some schools who have it like SMU and Baylor don't have enough of it. Winning won't help TCU or Boise in this. The only way Dodge could have changed our fortunes in this and got us in with the big boys, would have been if he had somehow figured a way to make us draw the kind of revenue Texas or Oklahoma does for the conferences. Maybe if he had figured out a way to get the NCAA to allow us and only us to have nude strippers on the field during our games causing our games to become the highest rated TV show on TV , and subsequently allowing us to choose who could be in a conference with us.

so your say'n we can have nude strippers on the field at the games....it is a good thing we are getting rid of the track.

Td hire was not a good thing...maybe we can fix this. Winning helps you position yourself for being in the best conference you can and winning increases revenues...Money is the issue...mostly, but not the only issue or factor...if it was then there would be no meetings necessary...jast fax us the money number and we will sign up..that is all that would be necessary. If you don't think years of bad mgmt of athletics at UNT has impacted our chances then your prospective may be a litte narrow...thats all. Look at athletic budgets and, for the most part ,a higher budget = better program. Our facilities and budget are improving and I suspect attendance will improve once we are out of that dump 'fouts". I really think our future is bright..lets just hope others can see that in the next few months.

houstonmeangreen · June 10, 2010

You know what...

After seeing all that is going down now, I'm convinced that it doesn't matter what we do. Oklahoma shedding conference partners it has had for over 100 years to hook up with Arizona and Arizona State says it all. And, teaming up with Texas to pressure Nebraska out first so they don't look culpable. I'd have never believed it until I saw it today.

I take back every bad thing I've ever said about Rick Villareal. Building a winning program doesn't matter (just ask Missouri and Kansas State...heck, ask Boise State at this point). Loyalty doesn't matter. Geography doesn't matter. Traditional rivals don't matter.

Nothing matters but TV money. And, remember, though...it's amateur, right? All for the kids' sake.

I say, from here on out, screw the whole lot of the money-grubbing whores. Quit scheduling them. Let them go play with themselves.

They've been trying for the better part of two decades to shed schools like us. They don't even have loyalty or concern for longtime conference mates, so they sure as hell aren't going to hold the door open for us?

If we started winning, we'd just be another pain in the rear for them to deal with - like Fresno State, Boise State, and Utah before us. Few money whore schools will schedule them; they just want them to go away.

Let's just win the Sun Belt this year and begin enjoying our new stadium next year. Tailgate, be happy, and forget about it. Let's just be happy with what we have.

I think you are pretty much on the money...good observations. We do need to enjoy our new stadium and have fun...it isn't all about the money and it is terrible that college football has lost its way. Still, I would like us to be in a conference playing teams we want to play and the fans can get excited about...so a conf usa or mwc would be nice...not so excited about a Texas State, W. Kentucky, etc.

Army of Dad · June 10, 2010

I didn't call him the worst hire. But he should go down as the worst hire ever IF we get the shaft in realignment. Why? Because we then will be facing a future with very little hope for becoming what we should be able to become.

Think how much of a better position we would be in if we were coming off an 8-4 bowl year where we averaged 25 or 26k heading into a new stadium.

Maybe we get into a better conference and none of this matters, but if not, I think the Dodge hire ends up being a disaster of epic porportions, no matter what happens from here on out.

You really think that an 8-4 year would have gotten us 25-26k in attendance?

2005: a 2-9 team drew 16,400 in average attendance.

2004: a 7-5 team drew about 15,000 in average attendance.

2003: a 9-3 team (undefeated in conference play and with a huge home gate against Baylor) drew about 18,700 in average attendance.

So what makes you think we would have gotten 25,000 for an 8-4 team? I don't think 8-4 would have gotten us an extra 7,000 fans per game to show up. Average attendance was about 18,200 last season and no single game had as many as 25,000...

ColoradoEagle · June 10, 2010

You really think that an 8-4 year would have gotten us 25-26k in attendance?

2005: a 2-9 team drew 16,400 in average attendance.
2004: a 7-5 team drew about 15,000 in average attendance.
2003: a 9-3 team (undefeated in conference play and with a huge home gate against Baylor) drew about 18,700 in

2006 15,650

2007 17,734

2008 16,956

2009 18,228

What I find interesting is that the attendance numbers are increasing despite poor records. It does make me wonder two things: 1) Are we building a following that could explode with the new stadium, 2) What would happen if our day in, day out opponents were SMU and Houston or TCU and Colorado State?

I would like to be averaging at least 25,000 by now, but it's hard not to be impressed by 18,228 showing up to watch a 2-10 team. The Oakland Athletics didn't even hit that average attendance number last year. :lol:

forevereagle · June 10, 2010

I think we all missed a very important part of what TFLF had to say...

Let them go play with themselves.

houstonmeangreen · June 10, 2010

2006 15,650
2007 17,734
2008 16,956
2009 18,228

What I find interesting is that the attendance numbers are increasing despite poor records. It does make me wonder two things: 1) Are we building a following that could explode with the new stadium, 2) What would happen if our day in, day out opponents were SMU and Houston or TCU and Colorado State?

I would like to be averaging at least 25,000 by now, but it's hard not to be impressed by 18,228 showing up to watch a 2-10 team. The Oakland Athletics didn't even hit that average attendance number last year.

I think this " Are we building a following that could explode with the new stadium" is exactly what is happening at NT...not sure why, but I see it. Hell, I'm pretty hard core MG and I will not go to Fouts for a game anymore (since Tulsa game a few years back...fouts is a DUMP. Will see big jump in attendance figures with new stadium.

MDH · June 10, 2010

fouts is a DUMP

Agreed. Since I'm not a student anymore starting next year, I can only guarantee I'll be at the opener and the finale.

Side Show Joe · June 10, 2010

Great post. It's all about the Benjamins, the hell with conference loyalty and 100 year old traditions. People like DeLoss Dodds and the Whorns are the reason college football as we know it is about to be in shambles.

And be on the lookout for payments to "student-athletes" and unionization in years to come. Yep, the "Student Athletes College Players Association".

This can't be all about T.V. money. If it was, the SEC would be snatching up Houston and North Texas, adding two of the top 10 T.V. markets in America, and improving the conferences in-roads into Texas recruiting.

No, this is not just about T.V. money, it's also about maintaining the status quo. Keeping the gap between the haves and have nots. Did Boise State, Utah, and TCU get too close to the big boys? Are we all going to pay a price for it now? Under the current expansion realities, none of those schools are moving up, but the gap between their conferences and the AQ BCS conferences will grow and they will still be left out. This hurts every non AQ conference, and it is looking more and more like all the important movement could be between the AQs.

Edited June 10, 2010 by Side Show Joe

MeanGreenTexan · June 10, 2010

Agreed. Since I'm not a student anymore starting next year, I can only guarantee I'll be at the opener and the finale.

I wonder how many others share your stance.

UNT has well over 100,000 alumni in the Metroplex. 18,000 people (including current students) show up on gamedays. How many of the remainder are only waiting on the new stadium to begin showing up to games? I hope the new stadium will bring some alumni back and maybe rope them in.

You insinuate that once the new stadium opens, you'll be there?

What is holding you back now? Is it really the stadium itself? I hope so... If it's something else, like say cost, then you will be sad when we open the new stadium and ticket prices rise.

Try to make all of the games. You have a new grad discount! We all know Fouts is dilapidated, but OUR Mean Green plays there this year. If we want to support them, that's where we need to be (at least those of us in the Metroplex).

keith · June 10, 2010

How much does the timing of the firing...um...resignation of Dr. Bataille factor into all of this? It's often said that it's the presidents of the universities who are in the driver's seat in these shake-ups. Really bad time to be in transition at the top if you ask me.

Keith

Edited June 10, 2010 by keith

Side Show Joe · June 10, 2010

I wonder how many others share your stance.
UNT has well over 100,000 alumni in the Metroplex. 18,000 people (including current students) show up on gamedays. How many of the remainder are only waiting on the new stadium to begin showing up to games? I hope the new stadium will bring some alumni back and maybe rope them in.
You insinuate that once the new stadium opens, you'll be there?
What is holding you back now? Is it really the stadium itself? I hope so... If it's something else, like say cost, then you will be sad when we open the new stadium and ticket prices rise.
Try to make all of the games. You have a new grad discount! We all know Fouts is dilapidated, but OUR Mean Green plays there this year. If we want to support them, that's where we need to be (at least those of us in the Metroplex).

Well said.

ColoradoEagle · June 10, 2010

How many of the remainder are only waiting on the new stadium to begin showing up to games? I hope the new stadium will bring some alumni back and maybe rope them in.

My guess is a lot. Also there is perception that I think will change locally. Fouts gives off the aura of South Central Louisiana State University Mud Dogs. I really cringe every time I watch that movie whenever they show the stadium, because of how much it reminds me of Fouts.

When we have our new stadium built for all to see as they enter and leave DFW, it will draw attention as the second nicest football stadium in DFW. (I don't think we'll be overtaking that other one...) That will bring in casual fans that, up to this point, have had very little reason to come to games.

Edited June 10, 2010 by ColoradoEagle

codeman1021 · June 10, 2010

Seriously what can NT really do at this point? The absolute best case scenario in my opinion for for NT athletics is to somehow, someway is to get into the MWC which is overall the best conference outside of the big ones. Even then getting invited to the MWC is almost a pipe dream. Other than that NT are the beggars and unfortunately they can't be choosers. While lots of upgrades have been done and are continuing to be done...it may just be too little too late to really have a positive effect on us during this phase of total realignment.

We do have basketball and a shiny new stadium to bring to the table. If we went into Mountain West football would likely be rough but we would dominate the hoops thats for sure.

CMJ · June 10, 2010

Dominate the MWC in basketball? Do you even follow the sport?

MeanGreenTexan · June 10, 2010

We do have basketball and a shiny new stadium to bring to the table. If we went into Mountain West football would likely be rough but we would dominate the hoops thats for sure.

J.J. & the boys are pretty good. I wouldn't say we would dominate that conference in b-ball though. We would step in and be an instant contender though.

And in a football hotbed like Texas, it only takes one bowl win and you're right back... oh, forget it.

ColoradoEagle · June 10, 2010

You must be high. We would get throttled by most MWC teams in football, and run middle of the pack in basketball. That's something that would probably change if we actually got into that conference, but you're overestimating what our current teams are capable of.

Army of Dad · June 10, 2010

This can't be all about T.V. money. If it was, the SEC would be snatching up Houston and North Texas, adding two of the top 10 T.V. markets in America, and improving the conferences in-roads into Texas recruiting.

No, this is not just about T.V. money, it's also about maintaining the status quo. Keeping the gap between the haves and have nots. Did Boise State, Utah, and TCU get too close to the big boys? Are we all going to pay a price for it now? Under the current expansion realities, none of those schools are moving up, but the gap between their conferences and the AQ BCS conferences will grow and they will still be left out. This hurts every non AQ conference, and it is looking more and more like all the important movement could be between the AQs.

If the Big 12 dies could the MWC get that AQ spot? What about a MWC that includes Boise?

Edited June 10, 2010 by Army of Dad