What's Up In Cleveland And Baltimore?

KRAM1 · April 16, 2010

OK, for all you baseball experts and close followers of the game...what the heck is up in Cleveland with an all-time low attendance record set last Wednesday night of an announced attendance of 10,071 (with probably no more than 5-6,000 actually attending), then followed up by an attendance of about 10,170 or so...then you have all-time low attendance numbers coming out of Camden Yards in Baltimore as well. OUCH! Not good...so, what's up? Did thee fact that the Indians were playing the Rangers have anything to do with it?

Is this all about the economy? A bit hard to believe that is the full reason as Cleveland and Baltimore are not along in feeling the economic downturn. But, could it be that the folks who usually went to Indian and Oriole game were in the majority folks hit hardest by the recession? Or, is it something else and something to do with baseball or is it both? Don't know...but, as a couple of the "smaller city" teams, this does not bode well for MLB I would think. Opening week or opening stands and this is what you get for rears in the seats? OUCH...what will happen as the season drags on and on into the late summer if these teams are "out of the races" which they most likely surely will be?

I heard this discussion on the Ticket's FM channel this morning on the way to work, but had to leave it before the end of the discussion. So, I have no clue as to what was said concerning reasons...just that it was a VERY bad sign.

What do you think? I hate to see this sort of thing, but is it a "sign of the times"? If so, what does MLB do? Move the teams...if they can...

MeanGreenTexan · April 16, 2010

Winning brings fans... These teams are not winning.

KRAM1 · April 16, 2010

Seems I recall the Mets a few years ago not winning either but having decent crowds and the Rangers are another team not know for winning, but it seems crowd levels have been decent for the last several years. Is that all there is to it? The teams aren't winning? Might be. But, wasn't Cleveland pretty good a couple of years ago? Do the fans fall off that much that quickly in baseball?

MEANGREENMAN! · April 16, 2010

Seems I recall the Mets a few years ago not winning either but having decent crowds and the Rangers are another team not know for winning, but it seems crowd levels have been decent for the last several years. Is that all there is to it? The teams aren't winning? Might be. But, wasn't Cleveland pretty good a couple of years ago? Do the fans fall off that much that quickly in baseball?

When the Cavs are in the playoffs and and the game is at noon on a Thursday, yeah.

CaribbeanGreen · April 16, 2010

The Tribe has been competitive or on the fringes of competitive entering just about each season since Jacobs Field (now Progressive) opened... even recently, they had a bonafide ace and a lot of "team on the rise" buzz. Now, they've shipped Lee off, fired their manager, and have zero expectations.

Combine that with a mid-work week "getaway game" (12pm EST first pitch), and it's a recipe for all time low crowd numbers.

Meanwhile, look at the start the O's have gotten off to. 1-6. Their season is already over in an impossible division. Done. They've been non-competitive for quite a while, and it's got to feel near hopeless in that division. I didn't note the start time for their game.

MDH · April 16, 2010

Basketball has been surging in popularity. There are fans out there that don't really get into baseball until it's the only sporting option out there, after NBA (and NHL) playoffs are over with. Add to that NFL pre and regular season taking over the main stage in the sports world in the late summer and fall, baseball just hasn't been able to keep up. Bring back the roids.

This has nothing to do with the economy. MLB games are a bargain to attend in comparsion to NFL, but do you see them with attendance issues? (Jacksonville doesn't count, even then it's not this bad)

Quoner · April 16, 2010

Google search "economy + Cleveland" (or see what would have happened in Detroit last year had the owner not decided to dip into his own pockets and make the thing accessible to what was left of a town in shambles).

I work with a Baltimore fan who takes off with her kids each year to spend a week at Orioles spring training. She said the hatred for Angelos is a thousand times more intense than any anger we have down here for Hicks. He dismantled that organization a decade ago and has spent his time pooping on the ruins wearing a Cal Ripken jersey. Plus, they have the Nationals close enough to take off a another 5-10k that gave up on the O's for those reasons but want to see baseball. Plus, Baltimore isn't exactly lighting the world on fire economically, either.

I think the pro-sports leagues outside of the NFL are in a race to see who needs to contract first in a changing economy. The NHL is in first by 100%, but the NBA and MLB are closing fast.

CaribbeanGreen · April 16, 2010

Also, consider the sheer number of games... since I feel like I know where you're going with the "do baseball fans fall off that fast" quote, look at it this way - if two essentially hopeless EPL clubs played about 5 or 6 games a week, imagine the attendance dropoff.

Right now, for instance, Wigan Athletic is 5th from the bottom in the EPL standings.. not good, but not a horrid bottom feeder... they play 3 or 4 games a month, so NFL numbers. Yet they average 17k attendance (Sun Belt numbers) in a 25k stadium. Now, IMAGINE if they played 5 or 6 games a week. Sure, they'd fill it up for Man U or Chelsea, but not for most teams (as made obvious by the numbers).

Note: I'm not bagging on the EPL or soccer in general... Just making a comparison using the sport you know and understand and has famously rabid fan bases... that "fall off that fast" as much or more so than American baseball fans.

MEANGREENMAN! · April 16, 2010

I can't imagine how frustrating it must be to be an Orioles fan. After years of terrible management and decisions from the top they are finally getting everything together. Wieters, Matusz, Adam Jones, and Markakis are great young players, but even if they all reach their potential they could still lose 90 games a season because of their division. I hate the idea of floating realignment, but if I was in Baltimore I would have my lips all over Bud Selig's clenched buttocks.

UNTFan23 · April 16, 2010

But I thought Cleveland Rocks.

Edited April 16, 2010 by UNTFan23

Quoner · April 16, 2010

But I thought Cleverand Rocks.

The original joke made me giggle, but adding what resembles a halfway-finished Asian dialect joke makes it extra delicious.

UNTFan23 · April 16, 2010

The original joke made me giggle, but adding what resembles a halfway-finished Asian dialect joke makes it extra delicious.

If this board is any indication ... spelling is always optional.

KRAM1 · April 17, 2010

Also, consider the sheer number of games... since I feel like I know where you're going with the "do baseball fans fall off that fast" quote, look at it this way - if two essentially hopeless EPL clubs played about 5 or 6 games a week, imagine the attendance dropoff.

Right now, for instance, Wigan Athletic is 5th from the bottom in the EPL standings.. not good, but not a horrid bottom feeder... they play 3 or 4 games a month, so NFL numbers. Yet they average 17k attendance (Sun Belt numbers) in a 25k stadium. Now, IMAGINE if they played 5 or 6 games a week. Sure, they'd fill it up for Man U or Chelsea, but not for most teams (as made obvious by the numbers).

Note: I'm not bagging on the EPL or soccer in general... Just making a comparison using the sport you know and understand and has famously rabid fan bases... that "fall off that fast" as much or more so than American baseball fans.

I'll give you a +1 for even knowing that Wigan Athletic is even in the EPL...much less that it exisyts at all. +1 to you...you must be a "closet" soccer fan. I may "out" you if you aren't careful.

Green Guy Bass · April 18, 2010

Baseball is in decent shape financially on many fronts....move along, nithing to worry about. The Indians and O's are okay money wise as well. Both are losing clubs with little to look forward to in 2010, both in the bigs and somewhat in the system. Also, both have seen some early games this season, which does not translate into impressive crowds.

I do believe the Yankees and Redsox are not helping the O's. Not to mention a not god-awful Nats franchise taking away some of the fan-base.

The Tribe....well it was staed earlier that they shipped away 2 CY young winners....so....yeah they are going to struggle. Oh yeah and they have a lot of money committed to some players that aren't producing as much as they used to.

Bad baseball is not strongly supported in markets like Cleveland and Baltimore. Also those parks are around 15 years old....so that novelty is also wearing off. If they put out a better product, the attendance #'s would be much better. You could say that about 2/3's of the league.