All Bets On 2010

Mean Green 93-98 · February 5, 2010

Vito raises some interesting points.

http://meangreenblog.dentonrc.com/archives/2010/02/has-unt-backed-itself-into-a-c.html

And he didn't even grate on me.

UNT90 · February 5, 2010

Vito raises some interesting points.

http://meangreenblog...f-into-a-c.html

And he didn't even grate on me.

Or, you just keep hitting the JUCO ranks indefinitely, Kinda like K-State in the 90s.

MeanGreenTexan · February 5, 2010

Or, you just keep hitting the JUCO ranks indefinitely, Kinda like K-State in the 90s.

Is this what made the Kansas CC's what they are today? If you look at them, they are full of highly recruited players.

Were they built up because kids knew that if they excelled in the Kansas Jucos, then they would have a good chance of going to KState? Or, were they already a high quality league and KState just happened to be a good team in close proximity?

February 5, 2010

I'm not that concerned. It should only affect the depth. Put the best on the field from whatever source...JC, transfers, recruits and gradually phase out the JC players by cutting them one or two per year.

If there was a maximum of say, 50 scholarships total it would be a problem but far less with 85. Tell him to check with Troy, they seem to have about 20 jucos per year. Of course, many of them have been stashed from prior years.

hickoryhouse · February 5, 2010

Thats a very god point, we can always continue to JUCO recruiting to fill the experience void left by graduating seniors. Good seasons will give us the star power needed to get better recruits and as that happens we will be able to slowly diminish the number of JUCO guys that we need to sign.

If this does turn into a "sky is falling" situation and we lose 9 games next year it wont really matter how many senior are graduating, the new coach will get the same sort of leeway that Dodge did for his first year or two and we would be leading into continued down seasons anyway. This truly is a the make or break season, if we do well this year we can make up for the difference with JUCO guys. If not then we go back to the drawing board, plane and simple.

eulessismore · February 5, 2010

I'm not that concerned. It should only affect the depth. Put the best on the field from whatever source...JC, transfers, recruits and gradually phase out the JC players by cutting them one or two per year.

If there was a maximum of say, 50 scholarships total it would be a problem but far less with 85. Tell him to check with Troy, they seem to have about 20 jucos per year. Of course, many of them have been stashed from prior years.

One issue, depending on how much belief we can put in the difficulty of finding and signing good DT prospects: I can see how, if in December 2010, we may have a hard time finding a JUCO DT who can step in and play in 2011. Correct me if I'm wrong, but with the graduations and positions changes anticipated by the end of the 2010 season, the only player we will have returning for 2011 with college level DT experience would be Tevinn Cantly.

Green59 · February 5, 2010

One issue, depending on how much belief we can put in the difficulty of finding and signing good DT prospects: I can see how, if in December 2010, we may have a hard time finding a JUCO DT who can step in and play in 2011. Correct me if I'm wrong, but with the graduations and positions changes anticipated by the end of the 2010 season, the only player we will have returning for 2011 with college level DT experience would be Tevinn Cantly.

Kyle White saw some playing time at DT in 2009.

good_ken · February 5, 2010

One issue, depending on how much belief we can put in the difficulty of finding and signing good DT prospects: I can see how, if in December 2010, we may have a hard time finding a JUCO DT who can step in and play in 2011. Correct me if I'm wrong, but with the graduations and positions changes anticipated by the end of the 2010 season, the only player we will have returning for 2011 with college level DT experience would be Tevinn Cantly.

I have read somewhere that the JUCO DE (Weber, I think) was a red shirt last year; due to his ankle injury. Is that right?

VideoEagle · February 5, 2010

Or, you just keep hitting the JUCO ranks indefinitely, Kinda like K-State in the 90s.

You can't do that for very long. Since besides the 85 limit, there is a limit on the number of scholarships you can offer each year. As Matt Simon found out the hard way, after 3 years of most of your scholarships going to guys who graduate (or run out of eligibility) in two years instead of four or five you start finding a decreasing number of total players on scholarship. It then takes a number of years with almost no JUCO transfers to build back up to 85 total.

Charlie NT 73 · February 5, 2010

During the signing day event at the Pourhouse, Coach Dodge spoke about

how the staff has developed very good JUCO contacts in Mississippi, Kansas, and now California. I am very glad the staff has developed these

JUCO program contacts. If a quality JUCO athlete is available, that can help the program, the staff should recruit the player. High school, or

JUCO, recruit the athlete!

yyz28 · February 5, 2010

During the signing day event at the Pourhouse, Coach Dodge spoke about
how the staff has developed very good JUCO contacts in Mississippi, Kansas, and now California. I am very glad the staff has developed these
JUCO program contacts. If a quality JUCO athlete is available, that can help the program, the staff should recruit the player. High school, or
JUCO, recruit the athlete!

I agree 100%. Great post.

GrandGreen · February 6, 2010

You can't do that for very long. Since besides the 85 limit, there is a limit on the number of scholarships you can offer each year. As Matt Simon found out the hard way, after 3 years of most of your scholarships going to guys who graduate (or run out of eligibility) in two years instead of four or five you start finding a decreasing number of total players on scholarship. It then takes a number of years with almost no JUCO transfers to build back up to 85 total.

Simon's problem was not signing jucos, it was he ran off the majority of Parkers' players plus the inherent issue of raising the ship level to 85 from the lower 1-aa level. Recruiting jucos is not a particular problem with maintaining scholarship numbers. Where it hurts teams is when you want to reduce the number of jucos, it leaves a shortage of upper class players as a larger senior class buoyed by two year players are replaced with freshmen.

While there are a few success stories of teams who thrived by recruited big numbers of jucos, in the long run most coaches don't think it is a good strategy.

The Fake Lonnie Finch · February 9, 2010

Is this what made the Kansas CC's what they are today? If you look at them, they are full of highly recruited players.
Were they built up because kids knew that if they excelled in the Kansas Jucos, then they would have a good chance of going to KState? Or, were they already a high quality league and KState just happened to be a good team in close proximity?

The Jayhawk CCC has always been good.

KJCCC Players from the 70s and 80s - or, pre-Kansas State Revival

Ron Springs

Mel Gray

Mike Rozier (Heisman Trophy Winner at Nebraska)

Ted Watts

Dean Hamel

Siran Stacy

Keith Traylor

Curtis Brown

Ron Fellows

Kwame Lassiter

Steve Tasker

Kelly Stouffer

Robert Bailey

http://www.bartonccc.net/sports/sportslinks/default.htm

FirefightnRick · February 10, 2010

Seems to me the numbers concern in football doesn't come close to the concern we are going to have in men's basketball in a year.

After the 2010-2011 season we lose 9(including one walk-on) players off the current roster, but only 8 if one of them gets a medical hardship for this season. Of the ten players who played to defeat FIU last Saturday, 7 of them are scheduled to finish their eligibility after next year.

That's 70% turnover from this years team realized in a little over 12 months from now and no one seems to even bat an eye about it?

Rick

Edited February 10, 2010 by FirefightnRick

Censored by Laurie · February 10, 2010

Seems to me the numbers concern in football doesn't come close to the concern we are going to have in men's basketball in a year.

After the 2010-2011 season we lose 9(including one walk-on) players off the current roster, but only 8 if one of them gets a medical hardship for this season. Of the ten players who played to defeat FIU last Saturday, 7 of them are scheduled to finish their eligibility after next year.

That's 70% turnover from this years team realized in a little over 12 months from now and no one seems to even bat an eye about it?

Rick

Wow...basketball hijack of a football thread...by RICK? Love it.

I am concerned about how many juniors are on the hoops roster, however it is considerably easier to re-load a basketball roster...JUCO's are no where near as risky in most case and freshmen can be counted on to contribute immediatly...immediate playing time would actually help in recruiting top freshmen talent.

Plus, as unbalanced as the hoops roster is...it is set up as favorably as possible to reload. Guards are considerably easier to land than bigs...after the crop of juniors leave we'll have just one guard left on the roster (Alzee) but 4 bigs to fill in around him (Edwards, Hogans, Holman and Knox).