My Conspiracy Theory Vs Your Conspiracy Theory

[eulessismore]

Just wondering, since holding on to one's conspiracy theories seems near and dear to so many, including myself; what conspiracy do you think has held North Texas Athletic Programs in general, and football in particular, back?

Mine is that President Al Hurley didn't care for North Texas athletics at all, and so was determined to drive it to its furthest possible remove from all things North Texas. Disclaimer: One reason I may hold anything at all against Hurley may have to do with the ceremony where I was receiving my master's degree (in 1984), and, as I was walking across the stage, and he was the one to shake my hand after I was handed the diploma,I tried to shake hands in the manner of "hippies" of the time, with the hand in an "up" position. He resisted this, and I think I eventually had to relent and shake hands with him in the "normal" fashion, hands pointing downward. It made me think of him as a stuffed shirt.

Edited February 4, 2010 by eulessismore

[Guest GrayEagleOne]

Just wondering, since holding on to one's conspiracy theories seems near and dear to so many, including myself; what conspiracy do you think has held North Texas Athletic Programs in general, and football in particular, back?

Mine is that President Al Hurley didn't care for North Texas athletics at all, and so was determined to drive it to its furthest possible remove from all things North Texas. Disclaimer: One reason I may hold anything at all against Hurley may have to do with the ceremony where I was receiving my master's degree (in 1984), and, as I was walking across the stage, and he was the one to shake my hand after I was handed the diploma,I tried to shake hands in the manner of "hippies" of the time, with the hand in an "up" position. He resisted this, and I think I eventually had to relent and shake hands with him in the "normal" fashion, hands pointing downward. It made me think of him as a stuffed shirt.

I'd agree that Dr. Al Hurley did hold North Texas athletics back but not for the reasons that you understand.

A little about Al Hurley's background. He graduated from St. John's, which was a basketball power but didn't play football. Therefore, he had no college football background. He was a retired Air Force general and noted historian. That would count for the no nonsense graduation posture on the antic that you tried.

Al Hurley was highly motivated to build academics at North Texas and conditions were ripe for state money to improve the scholastic standing. He didn't have the money to do both academics and athletics so his choice was obvious.

Athletics, after good years at the major college level under Odus Mitchell, Rod Rust (early) and Hayden Fry had begun slipping. Jerry Moore (yes, the same Jerry Moore who is now the coach at Appalachian State and Charlie nt73's cousin) only stayed two years and bolted for Texas Tech. Enter Bob Tyler, the ex-Mississippi State coach who almost got us suspended by the NCAA, who won only two games in his year at the helm and the program was headed downhill at exactly the wrong time.

That became the year when it was time to remain Division 1-A or drop to Division 1-AA. Division 1-A would have required a stadium of 30,000 since we hadn't averaged 17,000 in 1981. We didn't have/couldn't raise the money on short notice; ergo we spent the next 12 years in what is now FCS. Hurley really didn't have that much of a choice.

[NT80]

Just wondering, since holding on to one's conspiracy theories seems near and dear to so many, including myself; what conspiracy do you think has held North Texas Athletic Programs in general, and football in particular, back?

Smut; voted against NTSU for SWC admission because we hired Coach Fry.

We couldn't dig down and lower the field in Fouts because of the watertable, or water piping or water something.

1988 UT game refs ruled TD catch when clearly out of bounds, feared for their lives if UNT won.

1987 UNT denied the rename to Texas State University because of UT and/or A$M.

[MeanGreenTexan]

I tried to shake hands in the manner of "hippies" of the time, with the hand in an "up" position.

I'm not in your generation, so I would like to know what this handshake is? Is it like a high five or something?

You should have gave him daps!

[Green P1]

One reason I may hold anything at all against Hurley may have to do with the ceremony where I was receiving my master's degree (in 1984), and, as I was walking across the stage, and he was the one to shake my hand after I was handed the diploma,I tried to shake hands in the manner of "hippies" of the time, with the hand in an "up" position. He resisted this, and I think I eventually had to relent and shake hands with him in the "normal" fashion, hands pointing downward. It made me think of him as a stuffed shirt.

This?

[MDH]

1987 UNT denied the rename to Texas State University because of UT and/or A$M.

Interesting, never knew that. So why then was SW Tx St allowed the name?

[Shuke-D]

Interesting, never knew that. So why then was SW Tx St allowed the name?

I knew that we had been denied the right to change our name (perhaps Dean Elias wasn't fully behind the movement ); no idea why SW Tx was allowed to. Am I the only person who prefers University of North Texas? I know it has directional/regional school written all over it, but it seems more distinctive to me.

[untgeorge]

I'd agree that Dr. Al Hurley did hold North Texas athletics back but not for the reasons that you understand.

A little about Al Hurley's background. He graduated from St. John's, which was a basketball power but didn't play football. Therefore, he had no college football background. He was a retired Air Force general and noted historian. That would count for the no nonsense graduation posture on the antic that you tried.

Al Hurley was highly motivated to build academics at North Texas and conditions were ripe for state money to improve the scholastic standing. He didn't have the money to do both academics and athletics so his choice was obvious.

Athletics, after good years at the major college level under Odus Mitchell, Rod Rust (early) and Hayden Fry had begun slipping. Jerry Moore (yes, the same Jerry Moore who is now the coach at Appalachian State and Charlie nt73's cousin) only stayed two years and bolted for Texas Tech. Enter Bob Tyler, the ex-Mississippi State coach who almost got us suspended by the NCAA, who won only two games in his year at the helm and the program was headed downhill at exactly the wrong time.

That became the year when it was time to remain Division 1-A or drop to Division 1-AA. Division 1-A would have required a stadium of 30,000 since we hadn't averaged 17,000 in 1981. We didn't have/couldn't raise the money on short notice; ergo we spent the next 12 years in what is now FCS. Hurley really didn't have that much of a choice.

Not only did Hurley not have much of a choice, the fan base did not care. There was little or no protest about moving down when the plan was made public.

[UNT90]

Not only did Hurley not have much of a choice, the fan base did not care. There was little or no protest about moving down when the plan was made public.

Agree, and people should remember that the NTSU of the mid 80s was a far cry from the UNT of today. Not a lot of on campus housing, students wearing the athletic gear of every other university in the state, and miserable attendance at athletic events.

I think RV's legacy will be the spirit that has been instilled since his arrival.

Now, about those coaching hires.

[NT80]

Interesting, never knew that. So why then was SW Tx St allowed the name?

There is actually a Texas State University "system". UNT was once a part of it until 1949, but since we have our own system now could not get that name back. Rumor had it UT & A$M didn't want us to use it and blocked it in the state legislature. The TSU system now includes Lamar, Sam Houston, Sul Ross State, SW Texas St (now TSU-SM), and some smaller branch campuses. SW Texas changed to the TSU "system name with city" and officially it is TSU-San Marcos and must use the city if ever another school in the system also wants to be a TSU-something.

Other historical info I found about the TSU system:

Historical Highlights

1879 Sam Houston's Austin Hall, completed in 1852, is the oldest continuously-used state-owned higher education facility west of the Mississippi

1879 Sam Houston State created by Legislature as Sam Houston Normal Institute

1899 Southwest Texas created by Legislature as Southwest Texas Normal School

1923 Name of System changed from State Normal Schools to State Teacher Colleges

1949 North Texas State, now the University of North Texas, given independent board of regents, separated from System

1963 Angelo State added to System

1969 Three of System components (East Texas State, Stephen F. Austin, West Texas State) given independent boards of regents, separated from System

1975 System's name changed from State Senior College System to Texas State University System

1995 Lamar University components added to System by Legislature

2007 Angelo State transferred from System by Legislature

Edited February 4, 2010 by NT80

[Keith7]

I like the idea that UNT isn't good at football because the administration doesn't like hippies more than any other excuse mentioned. It just makes sense.

[Green P1]

I'm still waiting on clarification on this handshake confusion.

[Green Nightmare]

Interesting, never knew that. So why then was SW Tx St allowed the name?

They weren't really

They are Texas State at San Marcos. However they only have to use the san marcos part if and when they open another branch

[eulessismore]

This?

You were correct, it is/was the above.

[eulessismore]

I like the idea that UNT isn't good at football because the administration doesn't like hippies more than any other excuse mentioned. It just makes sense.

Dude, I'm still laughing at your reply! I was actually feeling bad about having started this thread until you summarized my original post like you did.