Nathan Vs. Riley

All About UNT · February 1, 2010

All of Riley's talents aside....this is why I am hoping Chico will keep Riley in backup for a year and let Nathan start his senior year. As "they" say...the proof is in the pudding....so take a bite out of these stats.

NAME CMP ATT YDS CMP% YDS/A TD INT RAT

Riley Dodge 205 303 1975 67.7 6.52 9 15 122.3

Nathan Tune 69 107 646 64.5 6.04 5 2 126.9

So...as you can see...Nathan has 2 Int thrown in 107 attempts...whereas Riley has 15 whopping INT in 303 attempts. This means that Nathan throws one out of every 53 attempts (admirable) vs. Riley throwing one in every 20 (needs a ton of work).

With that being said...lets take a look at what the effect of Riley's receptions have been on some close games. The key matchups are the winnable games against ULL, Middle Tennessee, Ark State, FIU, FAU and ARMY.

ULL- Final Score 39-34 ULL. Riley threw an INT and it was returned for a TD. Another INT was returned to close field goal range after a 26 yd. run and ULL drove in a FG on us. A side note is that we also had a blocked punt returned for a TD. In my eyes...Riley cost us 10 pts. this game.

Middle Tenn.- Final Score 37-21 Middle Tenn. Riley threw 2 INTs and both were returned for TDs....in my eyes he threw our momentum away and cost us 14 pts. in their favor.

Arkansas State- Final Score 30-26 Ark State. Riley threw a INT and it was returned for a TD. In my eyes Riley cost us 7 pts. and the game.

FIU- Final Score 35-28 FIU. Riley threw 1 interception and it cost us the game when it was returned for a TD. We could not close our last drive and stopped at the 10 yd line.

FAU- Final Score 44-40 FAU. Riley gets pummeled this game...keeps taking hits and beatdowns. So..Nathan takes over...starts a winning drive..then Dodge puts Riley back in who gets nailed..fumbles the ball and costs us a FG against us due to the return. Nathan then comes back in the game and tries to salvage the remainder...

Army- Final Score- 17-13- Perhaps the biggest heartbreakers of the year (tied with the Ohio game)...

3 INTs thrown by Riley this game. That alone regardless of the returns by Army on these interceptions can lose the game based on lost drives. As it pans out...1 FG was scored on an INT..and our defense did an admirable job trying to contain and shutdown a weakened Army offense. We had a FG blocked and missed an extra pt.

and I will throw Ohio in there for good measure....everything was going our way (albeit it was gonna be close). Lets be honest...we have a new season and lots of hype behind Riley at this point and we were coming off fresh after beating Ball State (in hindsight not much of a feat). When little Riley got injured it threw everything out of wack and Nathan saw his first plays on the field (throwing his 1 of two year long INTS). Had Riley not gotten injured (first of countless times it seems) we might have carried the day...though this is all speculative.

Bottom Line: Riley needs 1 yr of QB training under Canales before coming back out in the field...Conditioning...Bulking Up....and getting control of his INTs are an absolute priority. Everyone loves watching him play...and the runs he makes...awesome! However we could all feel the momentum shift at the games (half of the ones we played last year) when he was either hurt or threw one of his seemingly countless interceptions. Play Nathan and we will have a winning year...I promise.

UNT Mean Green · February 1, 2010

All of Riley's talents aside....this is why I am hoping Chico will keep Riley in backup for a year and let Nathan start his senior year. As "they" say...the proof is in the pudding....so take a bite out of these stats.

NAME CMP ATT YDS CMP% YDS/A TD INT RAT
Riley Dodge 205 303 1975 67.7 6.52 9 15 122.3
Nathan Tune 69 107 646 64.5 6.04 5 2 126.9

So...as you can see...Nathan has 2 Int thrown in 107 attempts...whereas Riley has 15 whopping INT in 303 attempts. This means that Nathan throws one out of every 53 attempts (admirable) vs. Riley throwing one in every 20 (needs a ton of work).

With that being said...lets take a look at what the effect of Riley's receptions have been on some close games. The key matchups are the winnable games against ULL, Middle Tennessee, Ark State, FIU, FAU and ARMY.

ULL- Final Score 39-34 ULL. Riley threw an INT and it was returned for a TD. Another INT was returned to close field goal range after a 26 yd. run and ULL drove in a FG on us. A side note is that we also had a blocked punt returned for a TD. In my eyes...Riley cost us 10 pts. this game.

Middle Tenn.- Final Score 37-21 Middle Tenn. Riley threw 2 INTs and both were returned for TDs....in my eyes he threw our momentum away and cost us 14 pts. in their favor.

Arkansas State- Final Score 30-26 Ark State. Riley threw a INT and it was returned for a TD. In my eyes Riley cost us 7 pts. and the game.

FIU- Final Score 35-28 FIU. Riley threw 1 interception and it cost us the game when it was returned for a TD. We could not close our last drive and stopped at the 10 yd line.

FAU- Final Score 44-40 FAU. Riley gets pummeled this game...keeps taking hits and beatdowns. So..Nathan takes over...starts a winning drive..then Dodge puts Riley back in who gets nailed..fumbles the ball and costs us a FG against us due to the return. Nathan then comes back in the game and tries to salvage the remainder...

Army- Final Score- 17-13- Perhaps the biggest heartbreakers of the year (tied with the Ohio game)...
3 INTs thrown by Riley this game. That alone regardless of the returns by Army on these interceptions can lose the game based on lost drives. As it pans out...1 FG was scored on an INT..and our defense did an admirable job trying to contain and shutdown a weakened Army offense. We had a FG blocked and missed an extra pt.

and I will throw Ohio in there for good measure....everything was going our way (albeit it was gonna be close). Lets be honest...we have a new season and lots of hype behind Riley at this point and we were coming off fresh after beating Ball State (in hindsight not much of a feat). When little Riley got injured it threw everything out of wack and Nathan saw his first plays on the field (throwing his 1 of two year long INTS). Had Riley not gotten injured (first of countless times it seems) we might have carried the day...though this is all speculative.

Bottom Line: Riley needs 1 yr of QB training under Canales before coming back out in the field...Conditioning...Bulking Up....and getting control of his INTs are an absolute priority. Everyone loves watching him play...and the runs he makes...awesome! However we could all feel the momentum shift at the games (half of the ones we played last year) when he was either hurt or threw one of his seemingly countless interceptions. Play Nathan and we will have a winning year...I promise.

Does anyone know if Riley is even going to be healthy enough to participate in spring practice?

good_ken · February 1, 2010

All of Riley's talents aside....this is why I am hoping Chico will keep Riley in backup for a year and let Nathan start his senior year. As "they" say...the proof is in the pudding....so take a bite out of these stats.

NAME CMP ATT YDS CMP% YDS/A TD INT RAT
Riley Dodge 205 303 1975 67.7 6.52 9 15 122.3
Nathan Tune 69 107 646 64.5 6.04 5 2 126.9

So...as you can see...Nathan has 2 Int thrown in 107 attempts...whereas Riley has 15 whopping INT in 303 attempts. This means that Nathan throws one out of every 53 attempts (admirable) vs. Riley throwing one in every 20 (needs a ton of work).

With that being said...lets take a look at what the effect of Riley's receptions have been on some close games. The key matchups are the winnable games against ULL, Middle Tennessee, Ark State, FIU, FAU and ARMY.

ULL- Final Score 39-34 ULL. Riley threw an INT and it was returned for a TD. Another INT was returned to close field goal range after a 26 yd. run and ULL drove in a FG on us. A side note is that we also had a blocked punt returned for a TD. In my eyes...Riley cost us 10 pts. this game.

Middle Tenn.- Final Score 37-21 Middle Tenn. Riley threw 2 INTs and both were returned for TDs....in my eyes he threw our momentum away and cost us 14 pts. in their favor.

Arkansas State- Final Score 30-26 Ark State. Riley threw a INT and it was returned for a TD. In my eyes Riley cost us 7 pts. and the game.

FIU- Final Score 35-28 FIU. Riley threw 1 interception and it cost us the game when it was returned for a TD. We could not close our last drive and stopped at the 10 yd line.

FAU- Final Score 44-40 FAU. Riley gets pummeled this game...keeps taking hits and beatdowns. So..Nathan takes over...starts a winning drive..then Dodge puts Riley back in who gets nailed..fumbles the ball and costs us a FG against us due to the return. Nathan then comes back in the game and tries to salvage the remainder...

Army- Final Score- 17-13- Perhaps the biggest heartbreakers of the year (tied with the Ohio game)...
3 INTs thrown by Riley this game. That alone regardless of the returns by Army on these interceptions can lose the game based on lost drives. As it pans out...1 FG was scored on an INT..and our defense did an admirable job trying to contain and shutdown a weakened Army offense. We had a FG blocked and missed an extra pt.

and I will throw Ohio in there for good measure....everything was going our way (albeit it was gonna be close). Lets be honest...we have a new season and lots of hype behind Riley at this point and we were coming off fresh after beating Ball State (in hindsight not much of a feat). When little Riley got injured it threw everything out of wack and Nathan saw his first plays on the field (throwing his 1 of two year long INTS). Had Riley not gotten injured (first of countless times it seems) we might have carried the day...though this is all speculative.

Bottom Line: Riley needs 1 yr of QB training under Canales before coming back out in the field...Conditioning...Bulking Up....and getting control of his INTs are an absolute priority. Everyone loves watching him play...and the runs he makes...awesome! However we could all feel the momentum shift at the games (half of the ones we played last year) when he was either hurt or threw one of his seemingly countless interceptions. Play Nathan and we will have a winning year...I promise.

The statistics between those two are very misleading, based on the number of snaps (and this disparity is why you used them). Dividing by the number of attempts is a nice way to compare two players who both started. But Tune's statistics have to be labeled as "incomplete" as there just isn't enough data there to make a comparison.

And that is why you are posting this "analysis". Tune's stats being incomplete prevent any of us from being able to say that he couldn't win the starting job.

This spring will be interesting. I think it will remind folks why Riley was one of the top atheltes in the nation out of HS, why he was a Parade All American; and why folks lined up to recruit him.

So if Riley wins this competition; will you then post how Chico can't identify QB talent? Or will it be a triple-secret conspiracy based on language in his contract (written in invisible ink)?

DallasGreen · February 1, 2010

The statistics between those two are very misleading, based on the number of snaps (and this disparity is why you used them). Dividing by the number of attempts is a nice way to compare two players who both started. But Tune's statistics have to be labeled as "incomplete" as there just isn't enough data there to make a comparison.

And that is why you are posting this "analysis". Tune's stats being incomplete prevent any of us from being able to say that he couldn't win the starting job.

This spring will be interesting. I think it will remind folks why Riley was one of the top atheltes in the nation out of HS, why he was a Parade All American; and why folks lined up to recruit him.

So if Riley wins this competition; will you then post how Chico can't identify QB talent? Or will it be a triple-secret conspiracy based on language in his contract (written in invisible ink)?

Riley at this point will not win a TRUE QB competition. You may can make him stronger. You may make him more able to make reads. But you can't make him any taller. He should be a wide receiver/ athlete. H.S. stats are fine on both head coach and son. Both are in over their heads in D-1. I believe we have the best chance to win with both Nathan and Riley on the field, and it makes Lance much more potent w/o the 8 in a box he usually gets. Riley may be a D-1 athlete, but he is not a D-1 QB

MeanGreenTexan · February 1, 2010

Doesn't coach Canales rely on dual-threat QB's? I would hardly call Tune a dual-threat... Nice in the pocket, but he's not going to pick up large chunks of yards with his legs.

Also, coach Canales mentioned Riley, comparing him to his own QB's at USF. I think the job is Riley's to lose, as it should be. IMO, it would take a terrible spring for Riley to lose the starting job.

emmitt01 · February 1, 2010

The statistics between those two are very misleading, based on the number of snaps (and this disparity is why you used them). Dividing by the number of attempts is a nice way to compare two players who both started. But Tune's statistics have to be labeled as "incomplete" as there just isn't enough data there to make a comparison.

And that is why you are posting this "analysis". Tune's stats being incomplete prevent any of us from being able to say that he couldn't win the starting job.

This spring will be interesting. I think it will remind folks why Riley was one of the top atheltes in the nation out of HS, why he was a Parade All American; and why folks lined up to recruit him.

So if Riley wins this competition; will you then post how Chico can't identify QB talent? Or will it be a triple-secret conspiracy based on language in his contract (written in invisible ink)?

And while we're talking about what stats don't tell let's remember that what Riley's already high INT number doesn't tell is that he didn't play the two toughest teams on our schedule. That's right, against Bama and Troy Tune threw a whopping 1 INT total. For those scoring at home that's 0.5 a game...or 1.0 less than Riley's 1.5 a game. How many turnovers do you think Alabama and Troy could have squeezed out of wonder boy? I can see how comparing stats doesn't sit well with you.

And I even think Riley should start.

Mean Green 93-98 · February 1, 2010

Doesn't coach Canales rely on dual-threat QB's? I would hardly call Tune a dual-threat... Nice in the pocket, but he's not going to pick up large chunks of yards with his legs.
Also, coach Canales mentioned Riley, comparing him to his own QB's at USF. I think the job is Riley's to lose, as it should be. IMO, it would take a terrible spring for Riley to lose the starting job.

My thinking exactly. Any "analysis" of Riley Dodge that fails to consider his running ability certainly doesn't tell the whole story.

saysojoe · February 1, 2010

My thinking exactly. Any "analysis" of Riley Dodge that fails to consider his running ability certainly doesn't tell the whole story.

Riley will be the stater because of his "Legs" the boy can flat out run when the zone read is there. I wish the tall drink of water "Tune" had the wheels to go along with arm and hieght. With that said, I believe Baine is a " little Tim Tebow in waiting. He looks the strongest out of the 4 QBS and was a true dual threat at LD. Its going to be a good spring now we have a new OC and all 4 should gets some fresh looks with 1st and 2nd team Olines. The young man from Glen Rose is going to surprise a few with his speed also.

February 1, 2010

Here we go again. Nathan is NOT a dual-threat quarterback. Riley had 5 rushing touchdowns; Nathan 0.

Tune may be a better pocket passer because of his height but that does not make him a better quarterback for the spread.

Riley made mistakes as we all know. Many of those can be overcome with coaching. Some of the mistakes weren't all Riley's fault. I can remember a couple of instances where the receiver broke off his route. He had several fumbles by trying to fight for extra yardage instead of just taking what he had and protecting the ball. Those are freshman type mistakes. If Canales can't cure those then he very well may try another quarterback but let's see what happens first.

For all of his interceptions, Riley still tied for 7th in completion percentage in the nation. So, at least most of his passes went to the good guys.

By the way, B.J. Daniels, Chico's former protege, was one of the highest in the nation in yards per attempt. I'm looking forward to seeing what Canales can do with Riley who completed 14% more of his passes than Daniels. Their rushing average was almost identical.

And, unlike some of you, I don't believe that the fix is on. We'll put the best quarterback for the system on the field.

forevereagle · February 1, 2010

The statistics between those two are very misleading, based on the number of snaps (and this disparity is why you used them). Dividing by the number of attempts is a nice way to compare two players who both started. But Tune's statistics have to be labeled as "incomplete" as there just isn't enough data there to make a comparison.

And that is why you are posting this "analysis". Tune's stats being incomplete prevent any of us from being able to say that he couldn't win the starting job.

This spring will be interesting. I think it will remind folks why Riley was one of the top atheltes in the nation out of HS, why he was a Parade All American; and why folks lined up to recruit him.

So if Riley wins this competition; will you then post how Chico can't identify QB talent? Or will it be a triple-secret conspiracy based on language in his contract (written in invisible ink)?

You don't think that 100+ attempts is a good sample size? I think it is a fine sample size and is definitely large enough to project with. Something that isn't taken into consideration is the fact that Tune's numbers mostly came against our two toughest opponents and late in games when Riley had to come out. I am not saying that I think that we should have a decision now about who the starter is, but I think that the statistics are as representative as they are going to get.

VideoEagle · February 1, 2010

Riley at this point will not win a TRUE QB competition. You may can make him stronger. You may make him more able to make reads. But you can't make him any taller. He should be a wide receiver/ athlete. H.S. stats are fine on both head coach and son. Both are in over their heads in D-1. I believe we have the best chance to win with both Nathan and Riley on the field, and it makes Lance much more potent w/o the 8 in a box he usually gets. Riley may be a D-1 athlete, but he is not a D-1 QB

You might check out the following article in the Wretched-Comical. Article is here

One of the quotes is "“Riley is a lot like Matt Grothe,” Canales said of his former quarterback at USF. “He looks like Grothe, talks like him and plays like him.” Both Riley and Matt are listed at 6 feet with people questioning those measurements.

Here is another article worth a read from Rivals "Short Quarterbacks starting to erase myth."

All About UNT · February 1, 2010

The statistics between those two are very misleading, based on the number of snaps (and this disparity is why you used them). Dividing by the number of attempts is a nice way to compare two players who both started. But Tune's statistics have to be labeled as "incomplete" as there just isn't enough data there to make a comparison.

And that is why you are posting this "analysis". Tune's stats being incomplete prevent any of us from being able to say that he couldn't win the starting job.

This spring will be interesting. I think it will remind folks why Riley was one of the top atheltes in the nation out of HS, why he was a Parade All American; and why folks lined up to recruit him.

So if Riley wins this competition; will you then post how Chico can't identify QB talent? Or will it be a triple-secret conspiracy based on language in his contract (written in invisible ink)?

No Good Ken...I am merely pointing out data to consider. I do not believe that Chico will make a decision based off of Dodge Seniors pull...Dodge can't afford to be wrong this year (his own son or not). Spring will tell...all I am suggesting is that with clean slates and honest competition..that Nathan can win. His QB rating is higher (based off of this "incomplete data") than Riley's is and as stated in the post before me..consider that Nathan has come in after losing the starter which is never a great situation for any team. There were moments at some games wherein I was honestly hoping that Riley would take a bump so that Nathan could get in there and do his thing. This data...I argue..is complete enough to see that Nathan is more effective at passing than is Riley and that Riley's runs (though they get yardage) have also placed him on the sidelines for too many quarters/games. Bottom line...you can say Riley is a dual threat...but at the expense of him getting taken out of the game? Give me the offensive pass game coupled with a strong running back presence any day of the week. Just my two cents.

MeanGreenTexan · February 1, 2010

No Good Ken...I am merely pointing out data to consider. I do not believe that Chico will make a decision based off of Dodge Seniors pull...Dodge can't afford to be wrong this year (his own son or not). Spring will tell...all I am suggesting is that with clean slates and honest competition..that Nathan can win. His QB rating is higher (based off of this "incomplete data") than Riley's is and as stated in the post before me..consider that Nathan has come in after losing the starter which is never a great situation for any team. There were moments at some games wherein I was honestly hoping that Riley would take a bump so that Nathan could get in there and do his thing. This data...I argue..is complete enough to see that Nathan is more effective at passing than is Riley and that Riley's runs (though they get yardage) have also placed him on the sidelines for too many quarters/games. Bottom line...you can say Riley is a dual threat...but at the expense of him getting taken out of the game? Give me the offensive pass game coupled with a strong running back presence any day of the week. Just my two cents.

For real? That's awful...

I would expect Tune to have better discipline than Riley did last year as a RS freshman. I think Riley should only improve over this offseason, and the results should be fewer INT's and fumbles. Tune is a nice backup. No question that Riley has the better wheels though, and in Dodge's system, and Canales' system, that is a huge part of the QB position. I'm lookinig forward to seeing Riley's improvements, and in the horrible case that he goes down, I'll be confident in Tune's abilities.

All About UNT · February 2, 2010

For real? That's awful...

I would expect Tune to have better discipline than Riley did last year as a RS freshman. I think Riley should only improve over this offseason, and the results should be fewer INT's and fumbles. Tune is a nice backup. No question that Riley has the better wheels though, and in Dodge's system, and Canales' system, that is a huge part of the QB position. I'm lookinig forward to seeing Riley's improvements, and in the horrible case that he goes down, I'll be confident in Tune's abilities.

Yeah...I know its an awful thing to say but there were those moments (reference the 3 INTs in one game scenarios). I just knew that there was no other way his dad would give Tune the playtime...as much as that sucks. If one QB is having a bad game you should always consider what the alternative is. Perhaps the Two Quarterback System is the way to go...in this case. My only concern is synching the entering QB immediately to get into playing mode.

NTerock · February 2, 2010

The real reason Nathan Tune should start... he is really good at fake guitar.

I'd like to see Riley do this!

LoveMG · February 2, 2010

No Good Ken...I am merely pointing out data to consider. I do not believe that Chico will make a decision based off of Dodge Seniors pull...Dodge can't afford to be wrong this year (his own son or not). Spring will tell...all I am suggesting is that with clean slates and honest competition..that Nathan can win. His QB rating is higher (based off of this "incomplete data") than Riley's is and as stated in the post before me..consider that Nathan has come in after losing the starter which is never a great situation for any team. There were moments at some games wherein I was honestly hoping that Riley would take a bump so that Nathan could get in there and do his thing. This data...I argue..is complete enough to see that Nathan is more effective at passing than is Riley and that Riley's runs (though they get yardage) have also placed him on the sidelines for too many quarters/games. Bottom line...you can say Riley is a dual threat...but at the expense of him getting taken out of the game? Give me the offensive pass game coupled with a strong running back presence any day of the week. Just my two cents.

tune is a fine qb but riley is what canales is used to having as a qb and has 3 years left vs. one.

Monkeypox · February 2, 2010

You don't think that 100+ attempts is a good sample size? I think it is a fine sample size and is definitely large enough to project with. Something that isn't taken into consideration is the fact that Tune's numbers mostly came against our two toughest opponents and late in games when Riley had to come out. I am not saying that I think that we should have a decision now about who the starter is, but I think that the statistics are as representative as they are going to get.

100+ attempts is less than 3 games. Closer to 2 in the spread offense. I don't think that's anywhere close to an appropriate sample size. And, honestly, I don't care about the competition when all you did was play a couple of games. Sorry. Everybody loves the backup. And by no means do I think that Riley is a definite answer.

forevereagle · February 3, 2010

100+ attempts is less than 3 games. Closer to 2 in the spread offense. I don't think that's anywhere close to an appropriate sample size. And, honestly, I don't care about the competition when all you did was play a couple of games. Sorry. Everybody loves the backup. And by no means do I think that Riley is a definite answer.

So 303 in 9-10 games is enough? If you really analyze the number of attempts per game, then what does that tell you? From a purely passing perspective, the offense threw the ball more when Tune was in the game. They had to have considering that he had a one third the number of attempts in about one fifth of the games.

All About UNT · February 3, 2010

tune is a fine qb but riley is what canales is used to having as a qb and has 3 years left vs. one.

I hope you are right....beefing up Riley in combination with electroshock treatment for every time he throws an interception during Spring Practice would be great. Riley truly does have talent...without a doubt. I just hope that Canales (and I think he can) can sharpen the guy's skills.

Mo Green · February 3, 2010

Tune should of played more after his performance in the tide game.

eulessismore · February 3, 2010

How many of us would be ok with admitting that, whoever we think will start the season, we have no idea as to who will end it? I know that I don't know, especially since both Riley and Nathan were knocked out of the last game, and that was against Arkansas State, who we had played very close the two previous seasons. I hope we can have enough offensive plays that we don't have to depend on having only one player to run them.

Monkeypox · February 3, 2010

So 303 in 9-10 games is enough? If you really analyze the number of attempts per game, then what does that tell you? From a purely passing perspective, the offense threw the ball more when Tune was in the game. They had to have considering that he had a one third the number of attempts in about one fifth of the games.

Where did I say anything about 303? Do you see me making a statistical argument? What I'm saying is clamoring for a senior with limited experience to start based on a statistical argument is silly to me. He doesn't have stats on which to base an argument. We had to pass the ball more when Tune was in because:

a) if he had come into a game, we were usually already behind.

b ) he doesn't have the legs to run the ball himself, which cuts down on the rushing attempts (and limits the offense)

c) two of his starts did rightly come against our toughest competition, and there was little choice.

My point has always been that I don't know who the best QB on our roster is, but that it's honestly not my biggest concern after seeing the offense we run. And I'm personally of the opinion that we likely don't have "that guy" on the roster anyway. That, and everyone always loves the backup. Both Tune and Riley's QB ratings are pretty weak, TBH. Sadly, still better than Vizza/Meager ever did.

If you're changing QBs at this point, he HAS to be the difference between 2 or 3 wins and going to a bowl game, because you're putting in a guy with no eligibility left, so you get to do it all over again next year. It better be worth it.

The only teams that get by without having long-term consistent starters are the occasional BCS teams that have 3 and 4-star backups. They groom them, get them a couple of years to start, move on. We don't have that luxury.

I mean, if we don't care about sample size, then Derek Thompson!!!! He's 100% completion rate, 20 yards/attempt. 378 QB Rating. He's perfect. Okay, I probably shouldn't stir the pot, since people will come in here riding those numbers.

Edited February 3, 2010 by Monkeypox

greenminer · February 3, 2010

I like to think just having Canales presents an chance for Riley to blossom.

We all know Riley grew up in this offense, for good or bad. Let's see how he responds to a different perspective.

Who knows? He may blossom. Give these kids a chance. Canales is their opportunity for a clean slate.

forevereagle · February 3, 2010

Where did I say anything about 303? Do you see me making a statistical argument? What I'm saying is clamoring for a senior with limited experience to start based on a statistical argument is silly to me. He doesn't have stats on which to base an argument. We had to pass the ball more when Tune was in because:

Yous said that Tune didn't have enough attempts to be an appropriate sample size.

100+ attempts is less than 3 games. Closer to 2 in the spread offense. I don't think that's anywhere close to an appropriate sample size. And, honestly, I don't care about the competition when all you did was play a couple of games. Sorry. Everybody loves the backup. And by no means do I think that Riley is a definite answer.

My point is that he does have the stats to make the argument. He has one third the number of attempts in one fifth the number of games. That means that he has made enough attempts to have a relevant statistical comparison. Thompson does not. I would not make that statement as his sample is too small.

Again, I am not saying that Tune should be the starter, nor that Riley should be the starter. I am just saying that you can fairly compare their statistics and evaluate the two from those.

Monkeypox · February 3, 2010

Yous said that Tune didn't have enough attempts to be an appropriate sample size.

And he doesn't. I made no statistical argument between the two. You asked if 303 was enough, making a straw man reference to Riley. But to the point, Tune doesn't have an appropriate sample size. You've made nothing to counter that argument except to say that he's thrown the ball 1/3 the number of times Riley has, which only serves to prove my point.

My point is that he does have the stats to make the argument. He has one third the number of attempts in one fifth the number of games. That means that he has made enough attempts to have a relevant statistical comparison. Thompson does not. I would not make that statement as his sample is too small.

Again, I am not saying that Tune should be the starter, nor that Riley should be the starter. I am just saying that you can fairly compare their statistics and evaluate the two from those.

And you are incorrect. Your own numbers actually point to exactly why. He played in only 1/5th the number of games. And only threw the ball 1/3rd the number of times. Tune didn't even play 1/3rd of the season, and you want to make a statistical comparison, which is ridiculous. Also, he's a senior. I would honestly at least respect the Derek Thompson idea because that's one that could pay off for more than a year.

If someone really wanted to make a statistical comparison, an easy and interesting one would be one of Vizza's seasons to Riley's first. Those are at least CLOSE in play time.