Playing What If...

emmitt01 · January 31, 2010

Let's say hypothetically North Texas, with the offense turned over to Canales, does get to 7 wins or better. That would be a 5 win turnaround and pretty impressive. Impressive enough probably that schools with OC or even HC openings...and deeper pockets than NT...might come calling.

Now, if you are RV you have a dilemma on your hands. Do you let the one major difference maker between 2-10 and 7-5 walk (he's the only new variable) and keep the coach who didn't start winning until he relinquished control of his offense? If you read the interview that Harry posted from USU you know that Canales wants to be a HC and was in the running before to be one. Do you pray that another OC falls into our laps and continues the succes?

I guess what I'm asking is this, if dodge truly is just a good OC/QB coach away from the big turnaround as many assume then is it the HC who should be retained or the guy who props him up?

good_ken · January 31, 2010

The thing to remember is that every program seems to be as good as their assistants. DD won here until schools like UCLA pulled away his assistants, and even the great USC has started suffering as schools hire away their coordinators.

So I guess my opinion is that the athletic director should never skimp on what they can try to pay their assistant coaches. That group of personnel seems to be what separates the winers from the losers.

VideoEagle · January 31, 2010

Do you let the one major difference maker between 2-10 and 7-5 walk (he's the only new variable) and keep the coach who didn't start winning until he relinquished control of his offense?

Completely wrong assumption. For that assumption to be true, then no other coach had any input, made any contribution nor could have had gained any experience during the last year. Based on your assumption, nly Coach Canales had any influence on the team with either the offense or the defense. Likewise, based on your assumption, none of the players on either side of the ball gained any experience of any kind last year. That is just not reality.

Since the assumption in invalid on it’s face, the question had no basis either.

Edited January 31, 2010 by VideoEagle

Mean Green 93-98 · January 31, 2010

VideoEagle makes some good points--if we were to go 7-5, Canales would be far from the only factor in that success. But he would have to be a big part of it. Hopefully, RV can deepen our pockets with such success, but that's no guarantee against him receiving what he perceives to be a better offer in the future. And if he does, that's a good sign. And if he leaves because of his success here, TD will have a much easier sell job to the next top-flight OC he brings in.

I'd say worry about that when/if it gets here. That would be a real nice problem to have.

NT80 · January 31, 2010

VideoEagle makes some good points--if we were to go 7-5, Canales would be far from the only factor in that success. But he would have to be a big part of it. Hopefully, RV can deepen our pockets with such success, but that's no guarantee against him receiving what he perceives to be a better offer in the future. And if he does, that's a good sign. And if he leaves because of his success here, TD will have a much easier sell job to the next top-flight OC he brings in.

I'd say worry about that when/if it gets here. That would be a real nice problem to have.

IF NT has the success that everyone is predicting then Dodge's decision in many areas, including giving up playcalling and hiring this OC, etc, will have been the right call. I believe Head Coaching is trial and error until the correct formula is found. DD had it for awhile then lost key players, key coaches and failed to tweak the playbook all at the same time. Assistant coaches will always be leaving for better opportunities, replacing them as well as key players is the art of a good HC.

mean green d · January 31, 2010

ttTttaTYtTtTtTttHTta

KRAM1 · January 31, 2010

Even in the face of excellent news there are those who simply refuse to be positive. Amazing.

eulessismore · January 31, 2010

Let's say hypothetically North Texas, with the offense turned over to Canales, does get to 7 wins or better. That would be a 5 win turnaround and pretty impressive. Impressive enough probably that schools with OC or even HC openings...and deeper pockets than NT...might come calling.

Now, if you are RV you have a dilemma on your hands. Do you let the one major difference maker between 2-10 and 7-5 walk (he's the only new variable) and keep the coach who didn't start winning until he relinquished control of his offense? If you read the interview that Harry posted from USU you know that Canales wants to be a HC and was in the running before to be one. Do you pray that another OC falls into our laps and continues the succes?

I guess what I'm asking is this, if dodge truly is just a good OC/QB coach away from the big turnaround as many assume then is it the HC who should be retained or the guy who props him up?

I think you're out of luck on this one; with 7 wins, Dodge would get the credit for making the right hire; also, even if Canales were to get that offer he couldn't refuse, Dodge could then be in the position of "hey, the change in management philosophy worked, we'll hire another OC to fill that role". I don't think that having assistants from an improving program move on to greener pastures is usually considered a knock on the head coach of said program. If there were points for reaching, though, I'd give you one.

KingDL1 · January 31, 2010

VideoEagle makes some good points--if we were to go 7-5, Canales would be far from the only factor in that success. But he would have to be a big part of it. Hopefully, RV can deepen our pockets with such success, but that's no guarantee against him receiving what he perceives to be a better offer in the future. And if he does, that's a good sign. And if he leaves because of his success here, TD will have a much easier sell job to the next top-flight OC he brings in.

I'd say worry about that when/if it gets here. That would be a real nice problem to have.

As many have said in this thread it will come back to Dodge and not Canales, because to win 7+ next season it will take a team effort. I am hoping between everyone our practices are turned up several notches to start with. But almost every area of the team needs to improve to make 7+ a reality: Kicking, Defense, special teams, offense, play calling, and heart to win.

I do hope we are paying Mike Canales, I kept hearing last season we do have deeper pockets for coaches salaries these days.

Green Dozer · January 31, 2010

I don't think one year of success here is going to get Canales an automatic job with a raise some place else. You are giving this program for to much credit right now. Also, have yet to see where our current offensive system is being thrown out the window completely. I think if we have the 5 game turn around you are talking about, I think the entire coaching staff should get the credit. We can talk about Dodge doing this, not doing that, does he call plays, does he not, etc....but if we do not have improvements on defense and special teams, it won't make any difference.

What I would like to know Emmitt, and I am seriously asking, are you going to unequivocably going to support Riley Dodge if he emerges from spring ball as the starter and not believe it is just because he is the head man's son?

Green P1 · January 31, 2010

Even in the face of excellent news there are those who simply refuse to be positive. Amazing.

I read nothing negative in Emmitt's question. I've been pondering the same question since news of Chico's hiring broke. What has Todd Dodge done to merit being kept on as "CEO?" His two discernible strong suits are mentoring QBs and formulating an offense, the two duties he's now relinquished to Canales? I'm not advocating for his dismissal, just confused as hell about what he now contributes.

UNT Mean Green · February 1, 2010

In response to the original post, I say you do not let him walk. You step up to the plate and pay him and keep him here if he's willing to be a 250K/yr coordinator or so.

Quoner · February 1, 2010

I read nothing negative in Emmitt's question. I've been pondering the same question since news of Chico's hiring broke. What has Todd Dodge done to merit being kept on as "CEO?" His two discernible strong suits are mentoring QBs and formulating an offense, the two duties he's now relinquished to Canales? I'm not advocating for his dismissal, just confused as hell about what he now contributes.

Well, I think Dodge as a CEO is probably his strongest point. If we got this thing to a stable position, Dodge would be a great face for all the non-football parts of coaching while his assistants continued to pull their weight. Plus, this would free him up to work with a QB not out of desperation to turn things around, but simply as a coach imparting his knowledge of the game. I think the best coaches are CEOS - they flow from area to area of their operation, helping where needed and managing the big picture.

I just think Dodge came in not knowing how to rebuild the structure he inherited and made some well-documented gaffes, but I think he could guide a ship without 25 punctures in the hull quite gracefully. I bet he'd even leave cheese out for all the rats who jumped off - and Craig Miller.

MeanGreenTexan · February 1, 2010

I guess what I'm asking is this, if dodge truly is just a good OC/QB coach away from the big turnaround as many assume then is it the HC who should be retained or the guy who props him up?

I suppose this will depend on many factors: Kicking game improvement? Riley's improvement? Coach Dodge's game management skills? etc...

If coach Dodge can effectively run the team, then of course you keep him around! You prefer to use the term "prop him up", but I would say Dodge is surrounding himself with good people.

If Dodge truly has a good football mind (and I believe he does), then it should manifest itself this year in the Win column provided the factors listed above come together. If he just doesn't have it, then that will manifest itself as well. This is rightly the make-or-break year for coach Dodge. I hope he succeeds because I like the guy. But I love my University and if he can't get it together this year, it's time to move on.

Shuke-D · February 1, 2010

Well, I think Dodge as a CEO is probably his strongest point. If we got this thing to a stable position, Dodge would be a great face for all the non-football parts of coaching while his assistants continued to pull their weight. Plus, this would free him up to work with a QB not out of desperation to turn things around, but simply as a coach imparting his knowledge of the game. I think the best coaches are CEOS - they flow from area to area of their operation, helping where needed and managing the big picture.

I just think Dodge came in not knowing how to rebuild the structure he inherited and made some well-documented gaffes, but I think he could guide a ship without 25 punctures in the hull quite gracefully. I bet he'd even leave cheese out for all the rats who jumped off - and Craig Miller.

If things shake out this way, it bodes well for the future of the program. The big schools usually have the CEO/Head Coach type because they can pay for top quality assistants who do the hands-on, nuts and bolts work. Smaller programs, like ours, have to pay for the hungry employee type willing to wear 20 different hats as a chance to move up.

eppy4life · February 1, 2010

If NT wins 7+ games next year I think most on this board will be back on the Dodge train and the idea of letting him go won't even enter our minds.

hickoryhouse · February 1, 2010

And if we win 7 games this upcoming season and Canales is scooped up as a HC someplace else then perhaps we would have set the precedent of paying decent wages for good assistant coaches and one of taking coordinators and giving them the ability to showcase their abilities as play callers and decision makers on a national stage.

Perhaps then we would be able to go out a grab another quality OC. But who is to say any of that wil transpire, perhaps we win 7 and Canales decides to stay, or perhaps we lose 9 and we are all clamoring for all of them to be fired. who knows

TIgreen01 · February 1, 2010

I really don't think this question can be answered until we've seen a few games played out. If we're winning, will it be b/c the offense is just much more efficient and less turnover prone?...or b/c our defense is suddenly keeping teams to under 20pts/game....or b/c our special teams suddenly stop making game changing mistakes and start making game saving/winning plays?

...granted, a more efficient offense can help a defense out, as can a more efficient special teams....but I just think that we've seen enough in the Dodge era to know some pretty specific patterns to look for. If everything suddenly changes next season, then you start to dig in.

I also think Quoner is right. Dodge is the ideal CEO type coach....but a CEO can't look good unless his staff is doing quality work. I wish he would have started out 3 years ago with the staff we now have in place....no offense to his original staff--but on paper, the guys we have onboard now blow them away.