Obama Bought And Paid For!

[FirefightnRick]

I would be more than happy to continue that discussion.

I imagine so. I may be wrong, but I don't think anyone really cares any more whose fault it was. I know the voters in New Jersey, Virginia and now Massachusetts just let the rest of the country know that they want no part of what is being currently proposed to fix it.

Rick

[GreenMachine]

yyz28? It's in print for everyone to see. Also in the inquiries it was not the goverment that the banking CEO's were pointing the finger at. If you want debate on what caused the financial crisis then why did you not address my previous post on what I felt actually caused the financial crisis. I work in the financial industry. I would be more than happy to continue that discussion.

I work in the financial industry as well. The blame starts with the uninformed consumer. Then in no particular order you have greedy loan officers, underwriters following ridiculous underwriting guidelines, branch managers doing everything possible to meet their production numbers, appraisers that are high, or set values way too high, everybody in the chain of command from branch manager to CEO that wasn't evaluating their companies potential exposure on these risky loans. But in the end everybody was within the confines of these assinine products like NANI and SASI which were products approved by Congress.

[HoustonEagle]

I work in the financial industry as well. The blame starts with the uninformed consumer. Then in no particular order you have greedy loan officers, underwriters following ridiculous underwriting guidelines, branch managers doing everything possible to meet their production numbers, appraisers that are high, or set values way too high, everybody in the chain of command from branch manager to CEO that wasn't evaluating their companies potential exposure on these risky loans. But in the end everybody was within the confines of these assinine products like NANI and SASI which were products approved by Congress.

Can't disagree. But, no hands were forced. In the end greed created a blind eye to risk. Yes I am posting this at 3:30 AM. Ahhhh the joys of having a 6 week old baby.

[KRAM1]

One of the challenges in debating this point is that people really do not have a handle on what the "financial industry" is...every time the "financial industry" gets blasted for being "evil" it generally boils down to the "housing and mortgage" side of the industry as one can see in some of the above postings. If you want to talk about that sector of the industry why not label it as such at first and take some of the confusion out of the discussion?

When one says they work in the "financial industry" that could mean anything from a part-time bank teller at a local branch office to the CEO of Citibank. Some working in the "financial industry" have a very narrow view of the industry revolving around what they do on a day to day basis and that's great...others have the 24,000 foot view and that's great as well, but the differences in perspective are as different as night and day. Simply like they are in all other industries...if you are in manufacturing and work on the assembly line and are card carrying union member and proud of it...well, your view might just be a bit different than the CEO's or VP's. You think?

To blame the "financial sector" for the mess is ridiculous on it's face. As has been pointed out here many times, there is lots of blame to go around from the industry, the government and the consumer. No one is blameless here and the sooner folks stop trying to place blame and really try to find a fix going forward, the sooner this all becomes a bad memory.

Blame has never fixed anything. Hard work and cooperation does. It will get fixed through hard work and cooperation. On that you CAN hang your hat.

[yyz28]

yyz28? It's in print for everyone to see. Also in the inquiries it was not the goverment that the banking CEO's were pointing the finger at. If you want debate on what caused the financial crisis then why did you not address my previous post on what I felt actually caused the financial crisis. I work in the financial industry. I would be more than happy to continue that discussion.

Are you seriously that obtuse? Let me break it down for you -

"which is why your party will place blame on everyone else (even though it is their policies that caused the problem in the first place)...

but do nothing to fix it. No inquiries. No committee meetings. No legilsation. No NOTHING.

Here I am, obviouslly talking about government policy...

but do nothing to fix it. No inquiries. No committee meetings. No legilsation. No NOTHING.

...and now here I am compaining that the party in power isn't doing anything to resolve the problems with Government Policy.

My entire RANT was about the GOVERNMENT. You can try and get me to eat my own words, but I didn't say that Government wasn't engaged in trying to demonize the private sector. Not one time. Even the words you are trying to get me to eat CLEARLY are related specifically to Government policy and action. ...and they HAVE done NOTHING to look into that issue. I'll say it again. NO INQUIRIES, NO COMMITTEE MEETINGS, NO LEGISLATION, NO NOTHING!!!

The banking CEO's didn't point the finger at the Government? REALLY? You mean they didn't sit in congress and attack the group that regulates them? Wow, so that must mean there was nothing wrong with what the government was doing then, and the regulation and rules and pressure placed on lenders by government funded groups and the fed are all just perfect. I'm glad you cleared that up.

So, let me recap, so there isn't confusion. I do not think the banks were perfect. I do think greed is a big part of what happened there. I also think the government including members of congress charged with regulating our financial system have blood on their hands too. I KNOW that bankers have been hauled in front of congress and attacked. I KNOW that there has been NO inquiry into what the GOVERNMENT did wrong and who's hands were in the cookie jar. I hope that is clear enough for everyone to understand.

...by the way, I work in the technology industry, but it doesn't make me a walking, talking, breathing expert on all things technology, any more than you being in the financial industry makes you an expert on this financial crisis or qualifies you to exempt the government from some fault in this mess.

[yyz28]

EE this simply is not true. If you can find credible information to prove otherwise please post it here as I would love to read what you find. The government created incentives but the banks were not "forced" to do anything. In a nut shell the use of mark to market accounting and the creation of Credit Default Swaps created a self-inflicted environment where banks were taking on an exorbitant amount of risk because their traders up through the CEO would make huge bonuses simply buying up the commoditized packaged loans and supposedly laying off risk through the purchase of Credit Default Swaps. Housing values increase and you mark your profits at the end of your fiscal year. Everyone receives their bonus and the loans stay on the books. Housing is a methodical beast of a market that can rise in value for years before a correction occurs, especially with the banks loaning money to anyone with a pulse. So you rinse and repeat. The problem becomes when you do this long enough the risk profile of your institution becomes entirely too large to one side of the banking portfolio. The CEO's knew that too much of their revenue stream was coming from this side of their business but they would still allow more risk to be loaded on to keep stock prices headed higher and their own bonuses large. They would justify this by saying they had laid off risk in the CDS markets. What is the problem with that? The same CDS they were buying were also being sold into the market by all their own separate CDS desk and the desk of their peers. Why would traders and executives allow this to happen? Why not? The only personal downside is you lose your job and when traders and executives are making millions in bonus money each and every year losing your job is not exactly a huge fear. Instead they rode the horse until it kicked them off and they did this for the better part of two decades not just a few years. All of this created an environment where systemic risk was immense. As with any other market when too many people get on one side of the boat it will eventually tip. Unfortunately when this boat tipped it was so large it took the world economy down with it. Say what you want about the government did and did not do. In the end no one forced the banks to take on as much risk as they did. They did it becomes the system rewards short term gains not the long term picture.

Eagle,

There has been a good deal of data posted on the net and reported on that back up what EE has said. ...but now, I won't argue with what you posted either.

...that's the point I'm trying to make here and in the other posts. We can't lay this squarely at the feet of any one person, company or institution, governemnt or private. Even in your point here, Mark to Market rules (mandated by our friends at the federal government) allowed these guys to manipulate this situation to their advantage. ...perhaps mark to market was put in place with the best intentions, but there you go, the end result is here for everyone to see.

[FirefightnRick]

Yes I am posting this at 3:30 AM. Ahhhh the joys of having a 6 week old baby.

I don't remember you announcing the arrival of the new package. So if I missed it let me say congrats for the new addition. I hope all is going great.

Rick

Edited January 20, 2010 by FirefightnRick

[GreenMachine]

One of the challenges in debating this point is that people really do not have a handle on what the "financial industry" is...every time the "financial industry" gets blasted for being "evil" it generally boils down to the "housing and mortgage" side of the industry as one can see in some of the above postings. If you want to talk about that sector of the industry why not label it as such at first and take some of the confusion out of the discussion?

When one says they work in the "financial industry" that could mean anything from a part-time bank teller at a local branch office to the CEO of Citibank. Some working in the "financial industry" have a very narrow view of the industry revolving around what they do on a day to day basis and that's great...others have the 24,000 foot view and that's great as well, but the differences in perspective are as different as night and day. Simply like they are in all other industries...if you are in manufacturing and work on the assembly line and are card carrying union member and proud of it...well, your view might just be a bit different than the CEO's or VP's. You think?

To blame the "financial sector" for the mess is ridiculous on it's face. As has been pointed out here many times, there is lots of blame to go around from the industry, the government and the consumer. No one is blameless here and the sooner folks stop trying to place blame and really try to find a fix going forward, the sooner this all becomes a bad memory.

Blame has never fixed anything. Hard work and cooperation does. It will get fixed through hard work and cooperation. On that you CAN hang your hat.

sorry about the ambiguity. I am in the Home Lending Division (Mortgage) for a very, very, very, big bank. I think the easiest fix would be to get people out of the mindset that they have to have the biggest, best, and most expensive of everything. Especially the mindset of getting it right this instant. That way, no matter what programs or products are available to the public, they won't purchase them.

By the way, last week I went into Best Buy finalizing my decision on a flat screen TV. (Don't worry, I have been waiting for awhile and will pay cash, didn't want to contradict myself from first paragraph). Anyway, that little turd salesman tried everything he could to get me to buy a bigger, newer, more expensive model than I wanted or needed. Man those guys are sharks:)

[KRAM1]

By the way, last week I went into Best Buy finalizing my decision on a flat screen TV. (Don't worry, I have been waiting for awhile and will pay cash, didn't want to contradict myself from first paragraph). Anyway, that little turd salesman tried everything he could to get me to buy a bigger, newer, more expensive model than I wanted or needed. Man those guys are sharks:)

Point is...you didn't buy the bigger screen you could not or did not want to afford. Seems if folks buying these mega houses they couldn't afford would have made the same choice, the whole affair might have been mitigated to a great extent. Should we now bring Best Buy before Congress and accuse them of being the devil in street clothes, tax their bonuses and levy a big new tax on consumer electronics sellers???????

[Quoner]

was about the funniest thing I've seen on this board since TY Sports was still funny

We don't even exist anymore. That hurts.

The judges would have also accepted "was about the funniest thing I've seen on this board since the FWST had a beat writer for North Texas football."

[HoustonEagle]

I don't remember you announcing the arrival of the new package. So if I missed it let me say congrats for the new addition. I hope all is going great.

Rick

I appreciate that Rick. She is great and all is going well. We had a photographer come by the house and she was so content as she posed with some Mean Green Gear. My wifes Ohio State gear made her cry bloody murder. I believe we have a new fan.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

I work in the financial industry as well. The blame starts with the uninformed consumer. Then in no particular order you have greedy loan officers, underwriters following ridiculous underwriting guidelines, branch managers doing everything possible to meet their production numbers, appraisers that are high, or set values way too high, everybody in the chain of command from branch manager to CEO that wasn't evaluating their companies potential exposure on these risky loans. But in the end everybody was within the confines of these assinine products like NANI and SASI which were products approved by Congress.

--You (in the financial industry) just said what I have been saying..... removing all those controls etc. is the reason we are in this financial mess.... Thank You. After that greed from financial institutions and idiots taking those loans caused the problems. ..... none of which would have happened if Congress hadn't done what they did in the past 10 years.

---You are blaming the customer which is true --- but many in the public just aren't that bright when it comes to financial things. Mathematics of Finance is one of the courses I teach... it is amazing how little some really understand about it.... even some of my students who work for banks etc.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

---Every of every party ought to be disgusted with the Supreme Court decision today about contributions.... Corporations can now donate to political campaigns.. It will be government bought and paid for. and way past the comment that started this thread.

[UNT90]

---Every of every party ought to be disgusted with the Supreme Court decision today about contributions.... Corporations can now donate to political campaigns.. It will be government bought and paid for. and way past the comment that started this thread.

So you think Unions should be able to give all they want, but corporations shouldn't?

Funny that you are only outraged that the corporations can now give, and not outraged about the Unions.

Constitutionally sound decision by the Supreme Court. People and organizations have the right to contribute to whoever they want, as long as it is done publicly, whether it be an Auto Union or a fortune 500 company.

[DoubleEagle]

--You (in the financial industry) just said what I have been saying..... removing all those controls etc. is the reason we are in this financial mess.... Thank You. After that greed from financial institutions and idiots taking those loans caused the problems. ..... none of which would have happened if Congress hadn't done what they did in the past 10 years.

That is a gross oversimplification. First of all, NINA and SISA underwriting guidelines (they are not products) are associated overwhelmingly with nonconventional financing. Congress is not in the business of approving products, much less underwriting guidelines, for nonconventional loans. If you want to blame Congress for FNMA or FHLMC expanding their guidelines and taking additional risk, you can take that up with Barney Frank.

Also, I have been in the industry many years, both servicing and lending, and I have come to the conclusion that people who are quick to blame 'greed' for the crisis generally have no idea what actually happened. If you are interested in the mechanics of the financial meltdown, I recommend reading about David X. Li and his work around risk modeling, specifically the Gaussian copula function.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Look, here's the problem - businesses need banks to make loans for capital growth. It gets no simpler than that.

So, what is Obama doing - tightening the screws on banks who are already extraordinarily tight with their money these days? In order to please to most liberal of his constituency, he is risking send the recession back into deep waters.

I honestly don't believe there is one person in the Obama White House/Administration who understands what collosal f-ups they are when it comes to all thing economic and financial. They have no clue.

And, further, I don't think they care. I think they want the country to tank and clamor for more government. Obama and his cronies don't know how to do anything else but spend other people's money.

Punishing the banks further will do no more than further punish struggling businesses - large, medium, and small. And, all for the sake of his dwindling, liberal consituency. It's insane.

[Censored by Laurie]

Look, here's the problem - businesses need banks to make loans for capital growth. It gets no simpler than that.

So, what is Obama doing - tightening the screws on banks who are already extraordinarily tight with their money these days? In order to please to most liberal of his constituency, he is risking send the recession back into deep waters.

I honestly don't believe there is one person in the Obama White House/Administration who understands what collosal f-ups they are when it comes to all thing economic and financial. They have no clue.

And, further, I don't think they care. I think they want the country to tank and clamor for more government. Obama and his cronies don't know how to do anything else but spend other people's money.

Punishing the banks further will do no more than further punish struggling businesses - large, medium, and small. And, all for the sake of his dwindling, liberal consituency. It's insane.

What if we moved him to WR and found someone taller to be president?

[UNT90]

What if we moved him to WR and found someone taller to be president?

Na, he has good height for a FBS QB. It is mobility and muscle mass that he lacks. Plus, he is a smoker. Probably needs a rigid conditioning program.

Moot point, anyway, as I am pretty sure he is out of eligibilty.

[Shuke-D]

What if we moved him to WR and found someone taller to be president?

Great. One more example of moving an African-American player away from the quarterback position because he is not deemed to be smart enough and too physically gifted to waste in a cerebral position. Will this country ever learn? I hope Supreme Court Chief Justice Doug Williams will rule appropriately on this.

[yyz28]

--You (in the financial industry) just said what I have been saying..... removing all those controls etc. is the reason we are in this financial mess.... Thank You. After that greed from financial institutions and idiots taking those loans caused the problems. ..... none of which would have happened if Congress hadn't done what they did in the past 10 years.

You must not have read what he actually said.

...and this didn't all happen in 8 years guys... ...its fun to point a finger at Bush (because it seems thats the only debate skill the folks who think more regulation is the answer), but these lending practices that have being pushed by the Government have been going on for 30+ years, under congresses of different parties and presidents of different parties. Its not like Bush got into office and changed all the regulations, or eliminated ones that were in place. ...and The Dems have had control of congress since 2006, why didn't they jump up and start slapping the panic button to try and stop the crisis if they knew there was not enough regulation on the banking industry?

...see you can't have it both ways.

[FirefightnRick]

It's insane.

It's Karl Marx, plain and simple. Tomorrow night during his State of Confusion Address we will here more of the "class warfare" Obama has planned for this country. I set the over/under on how many times he refers to the "middle class" at 30.

Rick

[KRAM1]

Interesting that in his campaign against McCain, Obama was very much against spending freezes...now, another "flip-flop" and he seems set to announce some "drop in the bucket" freeze on areas that will not impact his pet union bosses, his far left base, etc. All the while trying to dupe the American middle class into believing he is really trying to do something. The guy will try his best to "have it both ways" in the speech. Watch him announce spending initiatives for pet projects (these will be cloaked in the language of job creation) all the while saying he will freeze spending. Double-speak at its best will be on display this evening.

What's the over/under on how many times he will place blame on others for everything wrong and take credit for all the "mystical" job creation that has gone on?

How many times will he read (teleprompter securely in place) "make no mistake", "relief for working families", "bonuses", "greed", "more work yet to do", "inherited"...and "I"? I give the "I" word a count of at least 50 and up to 5 in one sentence alone.

This should be great entertainment tonight. Where will Wilson be when one really needs him this time? OK, just kidding on that part.

Edited January 27, 2010 by KRAM1

[Censored by Laurie]

It's Karl Marx, plain and simple.

High praise...but I don't think Obama is in that realm of thinker yet...perhaps someday.

[FirefightnRick]

High praise...but I don't think Obama is in that realm of thinker yet...perhaps someday.

I don't know, I think Saul Alinsky would be very proud of him. Alinsky's own son admits he would be? The past 11 months has convinced me of that, and more importantly, has convinced many democrats and moderates as well. What I don't understand is why some of you liberals who work for a living and earn every penny you make STILL support his efforts to destroy the freedoms and opportunities that this nation affords you?

Rick

Edited January 27, 2010 by FirefightnRick

[Censored by Laurie]

I don't know, I think Saul Alinsky would be very proud of him. Alinsky's own son admits he would be? The past 11 months has convinced me of that, and more importantly, has convinced many democrats and moderates as well. What I don't understand is why some of you liberals who work for a living and earn every penny you make STILL support his efforts to destroy the freedoms and opportunities that this nation affords you?

Rick

Specifically...what freedoms and opportunities have I lost in the past year?