Ohio State Band

greenminer · January 3, 2010

I think the band is still taught 8-5. Perhaps some are confusing the terminology with high-stepping. Or maybe you want straight lines as opposed to curvilinear? Straight vs. curvilinear marching is just preference to me.

I have never heard of computer-generated formations, and last I was told we still have a person invent our's.

yes you can play while high-stepping. But the corp style is easier on the lips, less painful and less prone to injuries. I think this was the primary reason it was developed, in addition to allowing more flexibility for tempo, etc in musical choice. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

A tradition of our music school has always been to remain at the front of musical performance, education and composition. I think that - for good and bad - the marching band will be a reflection of that. Buy a One O'Clock recording. How many Basie tunes are going to be on it? And did anyone consider that UNT's influence has a lot to do with everyone marching like us?

An old-school show would be great and I can appreciate the value in tradition. But what is UNT's role within the Texas marching scene? When there are Texas A&Ms and Baylors marching around in the same old box sets year after year, there also needs to be someone leading the way in Texas for new techniques and music. The Texas high school marching bands are incredibly diverse and intensely competitive because of the increasing popularity of DCI. With rare exceptions in each state, it is rather boring outside our own state line.

I will always respect the Director of Green Brigade for this incredible balancing act that is their job.

PS: I remember the shows I see and the music I get to hear. It is not lost on me just because it is not Sousa. And I am going to just throw this out there to see what happens: unless you were already familiar with Sousa back then, his music probably did not stick as well as you like to think.

Edited January 3, 2010 by greenminer

LoveMG · January 3, 2010

I absolutely agree with rcade. I have absolutely no complaints about the Green Brigade, and it is ludicrous to compare them with A&M's band, which marches well and impresses (due to their large size), but cannot hold a candle to the Green Brigade musically. There is no School of Music at A&M. They pick students with high school marching band experience and go with them. They march well and they play the same five or six songs over and over in a commendable manner.

the quality of the music is not in question. it is the selection of music for a football game vs a concert. i know people who wanted to go to the past unt a/m game just to see the a/m band, not the football game.

meangreendork · January 3, 2010

OK OK Help me with something
Now I understand why cadets in the Air Force Color Guard are armed. They are in the "Armed Forces" of course.
But why do the Green Brigade Flag Corp need to be armed ? I'm speaking of those white rifles they twirl when they're not using the flags. The rifles are real I presume. Because if they were not real, why would they be needed ?
It's always seemed odd to me that a University that at one time thought the name "Scrappy" was too "war-like" would have a marching band with an armed flag corp.

Uh. Wow. I can't even comprehend this nonsense.

Okay. First - a military color guard is "armed" for the sake of ceremony and tradition. In history, back when rifle units moved in huge formation, a force often placed an actual guard around its colors to protect them as a matter of pride and morale. Supposedly, if the colors of a force were taken before the rest of that force fell, it was a great hit to morale. It's the same reason that (supposedly) a bullet and match (or two) were kept in the ball on the top of each flag pole - a match to burn the flag with, and a bullet for the flag bearer. It's not "just because they're in the Armed Forces", but it is related. Their rifles are real. Whether or not they function is usually up in the air. Some use functioning M16s or even older rifles like M14s, M1s, and maybe even the 1904 Springfield. In the case of the older rifles, I know that they sometimes modify the bolt so they can't strike primer, and then seal off the barrel. But again, it all depends.

And I wouldn't call the flag corps "armed". More often than not, their rifles are pieces of milled wood with metal weights in the stock, and something made of plastic and light chrome that vaguely resembles a bolt, and those are usually covered in white tape. They're not real, and based on the physical build of most flag corps members, they wouldn't be able to toss or spin a 12lb rifle. It's more a showmanship/entertainment thing since they're based on the military color guard. Same reason why some flag corps also carry "sabre" as well, but those are usually just curved bars of metal with foam or rubber covering, and then white tape on those too.

As for your last, I don't even know how to handle that. It's just too much for even me to grasp.

SilverEagle · January 3, 2010

I've read this post with interest and readily acknowledge that there will not be a return to the great UNT marching band days of yore, no matter how much we "old timers" wish.
Silver Eagle opened the thread with a wish to return to the traditions of the McAdow marching bands of the 40's through mid seventies. In those days, if you wanted to play in the top concert band, you had to march. In fact, the concert band (which was the top band) did not begin until the spring semester. You had future professional musicians marching alongside future band directors, there were no prima-donnas. The band learned a new show for each game. If we played six home games, the crowd was treated to six different shows, even back to back home games. There were no computer generated plots. It was all done with mimeographed hand-drawn charts!
Over those thirty years, McAdow established a great number of traditions (besides instituting Scrappy!). These were:
-A distinctive fanfare to open the pregame
-Playing the other school's fight song at pregame while facing the visitor's stands
-Marching into a clever NT formation to play the alma mater just before our National Anthem
-If a visiting school brought their band, he would often invite their director to lead the National Anthem
-The AFROTC squadron presented the colors
-Each half time show would be based on a theme and the band would move through a series of formations. You may see an eagle flapping their wings, a movable typewriter, etc, etc. The crowd loved it!
-In the stands, we played at least 20 different tunes a game during appropriate times.
-Of course, we played the original fight song and it is a travesty that the arrangement was changed. Only at North Texas!
As far as as I can tell, the traditions we now have are:
-Pre Game March
-Playing "Fly like an Eagle" as many times as possible
-Alma mater after the game while holding our fingers in a talon. (Just like our friends in Austin -except they do the horns. So maybe that counts as another school's tradition borrowed by us.)
Corps style marching is not to my taste. Most of The Big Ten bands resisted the trend and still march in an 8 to 5 style. And yes, you can play while marching like this.
Corps style music is also not to my taste. A quick quiz, can anyone remember any song that was played by the Green Brigade this season (other than Fly Like an Eagle)?
An earlier poster spoke of the need to march in a corps style as we trained many future band directors. Well, forget North Texas for a moment as our music educators are throwing away our band heritage. When was the last time our band played a Sousa march? Karl King anyone? Fillmore? Instead, our marching bands are playing music that is forgotten just as soon as the next show is learned. We will regret this one day.
I know old farts like me always wish for a return of the old days, but it is a pity that we threw away great traditions and joined almost every other college and high school band in this communist corps marching style. Kudos to all those university bands that had the courage to maintain their traditions..like the Big Ten, historically black colleges, military schools like A & M and Va Tech, and others.
PS. If you run into Silver Eagle, ask him to play the old marching band recording. I think you would be surprised!

I remember every one of those things. Especially the fanfare and the tradition of playing the visitor's fight song as part of the pre-game. I remember the first time I observed that and thought "Man! Now that's CLASS".

Let's get away from the discussion about playing traditional marching music. I don't ever remember the McAdow bands playing traditional marches. Mainly because I only saw their homecoming presentation....which was very much like how "Letsgiveacheer" described their every week show. Other than getting on the field, I rarely saw any military style marching.

One show featured the NORTH TEXAS FIGHT SONG. The show was called the North Texas Fight Song around the world. The band played versions of the fight song to fit the various musical genres around the world. They did a spanish version, a European (Wagner.ish) version, and a asian/chinese/japanese version. They went into various formations with each version of the song, sometimes band members were almost running from formation to formation. It was very.....kinetic. They finished up with the announcer saying "all these are interesting versions of the fight song, but we like the good ol' Texas version best". And then they broke into the traditional fight song to finish out the show...much to the delight of the audience. In doing this show, they showed their CREATIVE SIDE and they PROMOTED SCHOOL SPIRIT at the same time. Imagine that.

And as to music selection for playing in the stands. I never heard the McAdow bands play Sousa marches. They often played entertaining jazz (and other) selections. I remember being at one game and during a time-out the NT Band suddenly broke into their version of the Stan Kenton tune "Leap Frog".....it was great! Years later, I remember hearing the same tune on the radio, played by Stan Kenton's band,and I thought, "Man, they need to pick up the tempo some...the North Texas MARCHING BAND played it more upbeat than that".

The North Texas Band of that era was not self-endulging. IMHO starting with Dr. Winslow, the North Texas Band has been more about satisfying the prima donna side of the school of music, rather than promoting school spirit.....and maintaining traditions.

The Maruice McAdow bands used to do both. They were creative AND they promoted school spirit....but school spirit and traditions always came first.

shutter · January 3, 2010

Maybe that is my problem. I marched in the Winslow era in 1979 and 80. That is were my traditions began.

eulessismore · January 3, 2010

jazz has no place in a marching band or at a football game either. leave it in the bar where it belongs.

What about those New Orleans jazz funerals? Now there's spirit!

GreenMachine · January 3, 2010

Well, I think we're in the minority on this one, but I agree.
Video Eagle - Current marching styles feature formations that are way more difficult today than they were in the 60's and 70's and at every level I played at (High School, State and DCI) we were required to memorize our music. The Green Brigade marches their show without sheet music, so I'm not sure what you're talking about there. Lots of bands today DO "Park and Blow" but the better HS Bands and the Green Brigade certainly don't. ...now, what the Brigade DOES do, which is a bit unusual for the College level is park and play for the Dance Team - Drill Teams/Dance Teams aren't a college level norm.
...it should also be noted that at the college level, (at least when I was involved) we learned like 3 separate shows during the season, unlike High School where you learn one show over the period of the entire semester with the intent to compete. At UNT, we learned a show that was short and we played for maybe 2 or 3 games at most if there was a road game we'd travel to, so the marching formations were never as complex as they were in the High School or DCI level, but the music was every bit as complex if not more so.
UNT is a music school, and the Band a part of that College. You should expect to continue to see the Green Brigade on the cutting edge of marching band evolution - That IS our tradition. That's a good thing if we intend to be one of the best producers of band directors in the country.

Wait, our business and engineering dept's are larger than the music dept, why are we a music school? Hate to say this but I talk to people almost daily about NT in one way or another and nobody knows we even have a music school. Unless you are interested in that area, it's not something most people are aware of. I say that NT is now going to be known as a business school.

rcade · January 3, 2010

Wait, our business and engineering dept's are larger than the music dept, why are we a music school? Hate to say this but I talk to people almost daily about NT in one way or another and nobody knows we even have a music school.

Anyone who doesn't know about UNT's school of music doesn't know jack about UNT and should be disqualified from being taken seriously on the subject.

The prominence and size of UNT's music program is one of the main things that distinguishes the school from every other public university in the state. Denigrating that is just foolish.

LoveMG · January 3, 2010

Anyone who doesn't know about UNT's school of music doesn't know jack about UNT and should be disqualified from being taken seriously on the subject.
The prominence and size of UNT's music program is one of the main things that distinguishes the school from every other public university in the state. Denigrating that is just foolish.

i would rather unt be known as a football power. more media and more impressive to employers.

rcade · January 3, 2010

i would rather unt be known as a football power. more media and more impressive to employers.

It's not an either/or proposition. But UNT has been an acclaimed music school for 70 years. We won't be an acclaimed football school for 70 years until 2080 at the earliest. Maybe it's time to respect some of what we have, instead of trashing it because of what we'd like to have in athletics.

GreenMachine · January 3, 2010

Anyone who doesn't know about UNT's school of music doesn't know jack about UNT and should be disqualified from being taken seriously on the subject.
The prominence and size of UNT's music program is one of the main things that distinguishes the school from every other public university in the state. Denigrating that is just foolish.

You are right, those idiots should know about our outstanding jazz er wind instruments uh classical. What exactly is the music school known for. Sorry I got a business degree from NT and I admittedly don't know jack nor do I give a jack about the music dept. I already declared NT as a business school, don't argue with me:)

LoveMG · January 3, 2010

It's not an either/or proposition. But UNT has been an acclaimed music school for 70 years. We won't be an acclaimed football school for 70 years until 2080 at the earliest. Maybe it's time to respect some of what we have, instead of trashing it because of what we'd like to have in athletics.

acclaimed is in the eyes of the claimee. i give it same respect as our likewise acclaimed education, science and business departments, but no more. in fact the attitudes of some of those acclaimed musicians cause me to want to nix claim to any acclaim. comprende?

yyz28 · January 4, 2010

Wait, our business and engineering dept's are larger than the music dept, why are we a music school? Hate to say this but I talk to people almost daily about NT in one way or another and nobody knows we even have a music school. Unless you are interested in that area, it's not something most people are aware of. I say that NT is now going to be known as a business school.

A lot of people know UNT because of its music school. Often when I tell people from out of state that I went to North Texas I get a "Man, they have an awesome music school" response.

...I'm not saying UNT IS a Music school, first last and always, but the Music department has been a big part of UNT's history, and is still one of the biggest and best music schools in the country.

...and I'm a COBA alum - I wasn't a part of the school of music aside from the Brigade, in the interest of full disclosure.

hickoryhouse · January 4, 2010

You are right, those idiots should know about our outstanding jazz er wind instruments uh classical. What exactly is the music school known for. Sorry I got a business degree from NT and I admittedly don't know jack nor do I give a jack about the music dept. I already declared NT as a business school, don't argue with me:)

Pretty much all of the above. Jazz, classical, Percussion! Voice, Pop, etc. Look around the famous bands in the country, the bands that open for Conan, Leno. Letterman etc many of those players are fron UNT. The rock bands / pop bands that hire musicians such as the Rascal Flatts etc. you will see these parts filled with UNT alums also. As for jazz, those players are easy enough to find too, as are the hundreds and thousands of NT alums that fill teaching roles at other university's, high schools, that take lead roles in symphonies and orchestras and opera houses throughout the world.

Point being, we are a diverse school with many moving parts, all of which add to the tradition and grandeur that is U of NT. I am a proud grad of the School of Merchandising. and Hospitality Management and have nothing but respect for the rest of these other schools, we all should. We all have the same name on our diploma after all.

rcade · January 4, 2010

Point being, we are a diverse school with many moving parts, all of which add to the tradition and grandeur that is U of NT. I am a proud grad of the School of Merchandising. and Hospitality Management and have nothing but respect for the rest of these other schools, we all should. We all have the same name on our diploma after all.

Well said. UNT football fans who crap on the rest of the university have no right to complain if they don't think the team's getting enough on-campus support. We should take pride in everything that's good about the university.

untgirl04 · January 4, 2010

I've read this post with interest and readily acknowledge that there will not be a return to the great UNT marching band days of yore, no matter how much we "old timers" wish.
Silver Eagle opened the thread with a wish to return to the traditions of the McAdow marching bands of the 40's through mid seventies. In those days, if you wanted to play in the top concert band, you had to march. In fact, the concert band (which was the top band) did not begin until the spring semester. You had future professional musicians marching alongside future band directors, there were no prima-donnas. The band learned a new show for each game. If we played six home games, the crowd was treated to six different shows, even back to back home games. There were no computer generated plots. It was all done with mimeographed hand-drawn charts!
Over those thirty years, McAdow established a great number of traditions (besides instituting Scrappy!). These were:
-A distinctive fanfare to open the pregame
-Playing the other school's fight song at pregame while facing the visitor's stands
-Marching into a clever NT formation to play the alma mater just before our National Anthem
-If a visiting school brought their band, he would often invite their director to lead the National Anthem
-The AFROTC squadron presented the colors
-Each half time show would be based on a theme and the band would move through a series of formations. You may see an eagle flapping their wings, a movable typewriter, etc, etc. The crowd loved it!
-In the stands, we played at least 20 different tunes a game during appropriate times.
-Of course, we played the original fight song and it is a travesty that the arrangement was changed. Only at North Texas!
As far as as I can tell, the traditions we now have are:
-Pre Game March
-Playing "Fly like an Eagle" as many times as possible
-Alma mater after the game while holding our fingers in a talon. (Just like our friends in Austin -except they do the horns. So maybe that counts as another school's tradition borrowed by us.)
Corps style marching is not to my taste. Most of The Big Ten bands resisted the trend and still march in an 8 to 5 style. And yes, you can play while marching like this.
Corps style music is also not to my taste. A quick quiz, can anyone remember any song that was played by the Green Brigade this season (other than Fly Like an Eagle)?
An earlier poster spoke of the need to march in a corps style as we trained many future band directors. Well, forget North Texas for a moment as our music educators are throwing away our band heritage. When was the last time our band played a Sousa march? Karl King anyone? Fillmore? Instead, our marching bands are playing music that is forgotten just as soon as the next show is learned. We will regret this one day.
I know old farts like me always wish for a return of the old days, but it is a pity that we threw away great traditions and joined almost every other college and high school band in this communist corps marching style. Kudos to all those university bands that had the courage to maintain their traditions..like the Big Ten, historically black colleges, military schools like A & M and Va Tech, and others.
PS. If you run into Silver Eagle, ask him to play the old marching band recording. I think you would be surprised!

First, many schools hold up the school sign during the Alma Mater - this is not unique to UNT nor many other universities around the country.

Second, for the halftime shows, the Green Brigade played two shows featuring the music from The Whiz and Wicked (I think there might have been another one in there), and for the Halloween show, they played "Thriller," complete with the dance. The year before, they had a halftime show featuring the music from popular video games (Mario Brothers, Legend of Zelda, etc). That was one show I wish they'd done more than once.

hickoryhouse · January 4, 2010

First, many schools hold up the school sign during the Alma Mater - this is not unique to UNT nor many other universities around the country.
Second, for the halftime shows, the Green Brigade played two shows featuring the music from The Whiz and Wicked (I think there might have been another one in there), and for the Halloween show, they played "Thriller," complete with the dance. The year before, they had a halftime show featuring the music from popular video games (Mario Brothers, Legend of Zelda, etc). That was one show I wish they'd done more than once.

Pretty freaking good, especially for a show they do once! I think that it is the stadium that makes the thing look bad.

untgirl04 · January 4, 2010

Pretty freaking good, especially for a show they do once! I think that it is the stadium that makes the thing look bad.

I agree. I thought it was awesome.

UNTLifer · January 5, 2010

Well said. UNT football fans who crap on the rest of the university have no right to complain if they don't think the team's getting enough on-campus support. We should take pride in everything that's good about the university.

Best post in the thread.

Oh, and the moving typewriter keys performance from the 70's was the most creative I've ever seen.

Green Crazy · January 6, 2010

from my own admission i never really pay attention to half time...it's just something God invented to let the players rest, but that thriller show was awesome! my only two wishes for the band is that i wish there were more in it (to make them louder) and to change the choice of music while in the stands. nothing they have ever played has pumped me up (fight song doesn't count) and i'm betting the team either. jazz just isn't football music...chuck mangione has probably never been played in the locker room before the game. lets keep jazz in it's place...elevators and doctors offices.

that being said our band sounds as good or better than any i've heard and i'm sure they are more talented individually than most in the country. i'm proud to be associated with UNT's band and it's success.