K-state Game Date Changed?

[UNT90]

First off, K State only beat 4 Div I teams this year. And they got beat by the Louisiana Cajuns - so I think that a win is very attainable. Secondly, I will bet you $1,000 right now - without knowing a thing about next season's record when we play K-State - they we will draw more than 18K. In fact, I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you were trying to make some point and say that we have over 22K. North Texas fans have no pride. They do not believe in their own fan base. They bitch and moan and complain about even the GOOD things that happen. We get a Big 12 team to come and you complain about the day that the other school most likely demanded. You get a new stadium and you complain about the design. I am seriously sick of it. So put your money where your mouth is - we will give the grand to the athletic department as part of the stadium campaign - and you will have to admit to this board that you were talking out of your ass because you like to complain like a little girl about everything that is North Texas.

Either you don't follow North Texas or you don't read threads thoroughly. K State tried to BACK OUT OF THIS GAME. It was either - we cancel the game - or we accept the date that they provided for us. What would you have North Texas do, cancel the freaking game? If you believe that is the right decision - than YOU are fooling yourself.

Yep, never question anything, right? Just take your 5 straight years of losing football and enjoy it!

So much to address here:

1) Yes, I know K-State was trying to back out of the game. But, I think they signed... a contract? I'm sure there is an escape clause in the contract, and if the escape payoff isn't enough, whose fault is that... the AD's?

2) This will be the second year that Bill Snyder, proven college football coach, will be coaching K-State. I doubt you see a loss to a ULL type team.

3) Yes, I wish the stadium was bigger, don't you? Still glad to have it.

4) I guess I could leave this board to the same 20 superfans, some of which will scoreboard you with their superfandom. But, I like to think that someday, we will have more than the same 30 regulars on the only UNT fan website... for the 4th largest university in Texas. Maybe some are threatened by that, I don't know.

So you really think that this game played on Thanksgiving would draw as well as if it were played in September (which was the point of the post you qouted)? You really think that K St. will travel 13,000 fans for a Thanksgiving weekend game? Good for you. Nothing wrong with a little optimism.

By the way, the 18K I predicted would be double the highest attendance we have had in the past 5 years for Thanksgiving weekend (as quoted by FFR). Please explain to me how this is negative?

If you really have $1000 to give to the stadium fund, why haven't you already given it? THAT would be putting your money where your mouth is.

I'll consider the bet and get back to you.

Edited January 1, 2010 by UNT90

[KingDL1]

K-state owed us a game in 2010...just a game, at some point, during the 2010 season. Soooooo, if k-state calls us and says "we will come there thanksgiving weekend" the choices are two-fold. Say "ok, see you then" or "no, we refuse to play a game thanksgiving weekend so we'll cancel the contract". There is no leverage for a third option since they've done what they were obligated to do.

And here's something else to think about. IF our schedule shook out in such a way that thanksgiving weekend had to be a home game (and we could debate the merits of letting this happen AGAIN) what would you do if you were RV? Play a team like ULM or FIU, or move your one "marquee" game to this date in hopes of having their drawing power keep some of your fanbase interested on this weekend?

Botoom line is this, it isn't ideal but it may have been the only choice.

I am not sure why negotiations would ever be that one sided, Does Kansas State really have that much clout? I was under the impression this game had already been scheduled near the beginning of next season.

Yes I would rather schedule the K-State game earlier to take full advantage of the crowd it would generate early in the season. Thanksgiving they use the season tickets and other pre sold seats as part of the attendance anyway. Plus the likely hood of bad cold weather is much less.

[stebo]

Yep, never question anything, right? Just take your 5 straight years of losing football and enjoy it!

So much to address here:

1) Yes, I know K-State was trying to back out of the game. But, I think they signed... a contract? I'm sure there is an escape clause in the contract, and if the escape payoff isn't enough, whose fault is that... the AD's?

2) This will be the second year that Bill Snyder, proven college football coach, will be coaching K-State. I doubt you see a loss to a ULL type team.

3) Yes, I wish the stadium was bigger, don't you? Still glad to have it.

4) I guess I could leave this board to the same 20 superfans, some of which will scoreboard you with their superfandom. But, I like to think that someday, we will have more than the same 30 regulars on the only UNT fan website... for the 4th largest university in Texas. Maybe some are threatened by that, I don't know.

So you really think that this game played on Thanksgiving would draw as well as if it were played in September (which was the point of the post you qouted)? You really think that K St. will travel 13,000 fans for a Thanksgiving weekend game? Good for you. Nothing wrong with a little optimism.

By the way, the 18K I predicted would be double the highest attendance we have had in the past 5 years for Thanksgiving weekend (as quoted by FFR). Please explain to me how this is negative?

If you really have $1000 to give to the stadium fund, why haven't you already given it? THAT would be putting your money where your mouth is.

I'll consider the bet and get back to you.

I love FFRICK and he and i are friends - that being said, 2 of the 5 games were in other cities against teams with even worse records than ours, we had nothing to play for whatsoever, and they were a mixture of Div I transitionals and Sun Belt teams. I agree with you about a lot of things that you post (such as Mike Leach being a great coach and the kid being a little puss) but I just don't agree with this defeatist, complain about everything attitude. There is a lack of pride that North Texas fans have where we create excuses (in this case we are creating excuses for a game to be played 11 months from now).

I don't think that K-State will travel 13K fans - I think that they have a large alumni group in the DFW area that will show up - maybe 5K? I am NOT a superfan, in fact - I didn't even make it to every home game this year and made ZERO raod trips. I used to be able to do stuff like that before I became a working stiff but the man wears me down. In fact, until this Christmas break - I could count on two hands the amount of conversations that I took part in on this board over the last season. As for the bet - that is just me showing my blind confidence in the North Texas fans. Maybe that is blind confidence, but I believe that a Big 12 school coming to town in Denton is a big deal.

When Troy had a Big 12 school coming to town, they didn't complain that their student body only consisted of 9K students and that the entire city had less than 20K in it - they pumped up their chests and said that they would pack their house and win the game. The game got moved to a freaking Tuesday, yet they still went forward with that pride and #18 Missouri went down in Troy. Where is our pride that we have to be such wimps about everything? I guess that I am more embarrased than angry. I get these beat downs at work about NT and to see our own fans beat down the program makes me start to think that everyone else is right and I am the stupid one.

As for the bet - I am sure that you give what you can. Just as I give what I can. But I am that confident that a Big 12 will draw over 18K in Denton. In fact, I think that it will be over 22K, despite the day. Adler thinks we will sell out and I am not sure about that- I guess that depends on how both teams are doing when the weekend rolls around. But really, and I am being serious- what is the excuse? What are families doing two days after Thanksgiving that would keep them away? Is my family dysfunctional because we all hug each other after dinner and head back home? Should we be staying in the same house that entire weekend and enjoying each other's company? Or perhaps all of my friends have weird families, too? Because I don't know a single person that celebrates Thanksgiving after the day has ended. We have had bad attendance because our team was terrible, the teams we were playing were having bad seasons, and the names were less than recognizable (in my humble opinion). I believe that a Kansas State coming to town will be different. Maybe I am crazy.

Finally - Emmitt has it DEAD ON. K-State is only obligated to provide a game for us. They have been vocal that they want out of the game. If this date is correct, which it might not even be - than it is is their attempt at leveling the playing field. Of course Snyder wants to play us later in the season, his team will have shaken off the cobwebs by that point. And of course they want NT to cancel the game - they want another home game - as quoted in the article. Ok, I have to get off this stupid computer - I am still celebrating Christmas because it was last week. Next week I will celebrate New Years.

[NT80]

This game on this date will draw maybe 18K, whereas if it was played in the warm September sun, it would easily draw 25 - 28k. If you don't see this, you are only fooling yourselves.

I agree the date change from start to end of season will cost us at least 10,000 in attendance easily. This series was scheduled before Snyder returned as coach. Snyder likes playing cupcakes (that would be us these days). He did not want to cancel this game or he could have with a simple buyout fee specified in all game contracts. He also likes to have several consecutive home games to start his seasons and build team confidence, thus this road game was moved to later.

Edited January 1, 2010 by NT80

[stebo]

I agree the date change from start to end of season will cost us at least 10,000 in attendance easily. This series was scheduled before Snyder returned as coach. Snyder likes playing cupcakes (that would be us these days). He did not want to cancel this game or he could have with a simple buyout fee specified in all game contracts. He also likes to have several consecutive home games to start his seasons and build team confidence, thus this road game was moved to later.

One game away

The nonconference portion of Kansas State’s 2010 football schedule is almost complete. Next season the Wildcats will play host to UCLA, Central Florida and Missouri State. K-State’s fourth game is yet to be determined.

The Wildcats had previously planned on playing a road game at North Texas, but Snyder said “that may not happen.” It is his desire to play all four nonconference games at home.

I guess that UCF and UCLA are cupcakes (better not tell them that) - they both just played in bowl games. You are correct that he would like to play all non conference at home but they were held out of the bowl season this year by cancelling with a Div I FBS to schedule a second FCS, ending their season at 6-6 with only 4 FBS wins and only 1 FCS able to count toward bowl eligibility. You are absolutely correct that K State wants to level the playing field by moving this game to later in the year. We can either complain about it or show up and cheer for the men in Green, you know? I hope that you are all there!

[KingDL1]

I guess that UCF and UCLA are cupcakes (better not tell them that) - they both just played in bowl games. You are correct that he would like to play all non conference at home but they were held out of the bowl season this year by cancelling with a Div I FBS to schedule a second FCS, ending their season at 6-6 with only 4 FBS wins and only 1 FCS able to count toward bowl eligibility. You are absolutely correct that K State wants to level the playing field by moving this game to later in the year. We can either complain about it or show up and cheer for the men in Green, you know? I hope that you are all there!

Steve you make it sound like UNT is helpless in the whole thing, I guarantee you we are not. There is a real contract signed, and there is no way it was this one sided. There is way too much assuming here, with this like it or lump it attitude.

Still Thanksgiving weekend is traditionally the worst attended games in recent history. That is the concern, and you promoting this game won't change the facts, it is a bad time for UNT to have this game. Most these die hards on the board will be here, but we all know the casual fan and the students won't make this game, unless something big happens.

Edited January 1, 2010 by KingDL1

[NT80]

I guess that UCF and UCLA are cupcakes (better not tell them that) - they both just played in bowl games. You are correct that he would like to play all non conference at home but they were held out of the bowl season this year by cancelling with a Div I FBS to schedule a second FCS, ending their season at 6-6 with only 4 FBS wins and only 1 FCS able to count toward bowl eligibility. You are absolutely correct that K State wants to level the playing field by moving this game to later in the year. We can either complain about it or show up and cheer for the men in Green, you know? I hope that you are all there!

Yes I would call UCF (8-5 and beat bad in their bowl) a cupcake compared to a Big 12 conference schedule, and UCLA (7-6) is not that powerful. Add UCF, Missouri State, UNT, and 1-AA U. together and you have OOC cupcake central for a Big12 school.

[UNT86]

Nothing like a good ass kicking to end the season. Think I might skip this one.

And it only took 3 posts for something negative.

Congrats '90'

[UNT90]

And it only took 3 posts for something negative.

Congrats '90'

Thanks.

I'll be waiting for your 12-0 prediction for next year.

[emmitt01]

Steve you make it sound like UNT is helpless in the whole thing, I guarantee you we are not. There is a real contract signed, and there is no way it was this one sided. There is way too much assuming here, with this like it or lump it attitude.

Still Thanksgiving weekend is traditionally the worst attended games in recent history. That is the concern, and you promoting this game won't change the facts, it is a bad time for UNT to have this game. Most these die hards on the board will be here, but we all know the casual fan and the students won't make this game, unless something big happens.

Ok, so you explain it to me since my explanation didn't pass muster with you. Here are the FACTS.

1)FBS contracts stipulate that team A must provide a home game for team B in a specified year.

2)K-state agreed to play us on a weekend which we had open.

3)K-state has lived up to their end of the contract.

4)Contractually there is NOTHING that they have done wrong.

5)If the roles were reversed we would have this same discretion in travelling there. The difference is that we NEED the money so we allow teams to stipulate that we live up to the contract early in the season. K-state isn't doing anything "special" or big-timing us. We had every opportunity to say "no thanks", which they hoped for.

Now, explain where Stebo and I have it all wrong. Or, admit that the timing does indeed suck but there is nothing we can do about it.

[KingDL1]

Ok, so you explain it to me since my explanation didn't pass muster with you. Here are the FACTS.

1)FBS contracts stipulate that team A must provide a home game for team B in a specified year.

2)K-state agreed to play us on a weekend which we had open.

3)K-state has lived up to their end of the contract.

4)Contractually there is NOTHING that they have done wrong.

5)If the roles were reversed we would have this same discretion in travelling there. The difference is that we NEED the money so we allow teams to stipulate that we live up to the contract early in the season. K-state isn't doing anything "special" or big-timing us. We had every opportunity to say "no thanks", which they hoped for.

Now, explain where Stebo and I have it all wrong. Or, admit that the timing does indeed suck but there is nothing we can do about it.

I would love to see this contract where one party dictates to the other party. I suppose in this contract of yours there is no room for mutual agreement. Before you go all legal on me you might want to link a copy of the contract for me to read, I am not too unfamiliar with contracts.

Edited January 1, 2010 by KingDL1

[eulessismore]

I would love to see this contract where one party dictates to the other party. I suppose in this contract of yours there is no room for mutual agreement. Before you go all legal on me you might want to link a copy of the contract for me to read, I am not too unfamiliar with contracts.

If that startup UNT Dallas School of Law doesn't have a "Sports and Entertainment" track, they're stupid.

Sports law info

[Guest GrayEagleOne]

I think that the schedule change is great. A Big 12 opponent for the final game at Fouts. Quite a few K-State alumni in the area and even though school is out there are plenty of people in the Metroplex to have a good crowd without the students. Besides, I'd bet that 20 thousand UNT students live within 100 miles of Denton.

I was fortunate enough to see the first game at Fouts and if I'm still vertical I'll be there for the last game.

[SilverEagle]

I think that the schedule change is great. A Big 12 opponent for the final game at Fouts. Quite a few K-State alumni in the area and even though school is out there are plenty of people in the Metroplex to have a good crowd without the students. Besides, I'd bet that 20 thousand UNT students live within 100 miles of Denton.

I was fortunate enough to see the first game at Fouts and if I'm still vertical I'll be there for the last game.

Looking forward to it.

[wardly]

First off, K State only beat 4 Div I teams this year. And they got beat by the Louisiana Cajuns - so I think that a win is very attainable. Secondly, I will bet you $1,000 right now - without knowing a thing about next season's record when we play K-State - they we will draw more than 18K. In fact, I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you were trying to make some point and say that we have over 22K. North Texas fans have no pride. They do not believe in their own fan base. They bitch and moan and complain about even the GOOD things that happen. We get a Big 12 team to come and you complain about the day that the other school most likely demanded. You get a new stadium and you complain about the design. I am seriously sick of it. So put your money where your mouth is - we will give the grand to the athletic department as part of the stadium campaign - and you will have to admit to this board that you were talking out of your ass because you like to complain like a little girl about everything that is North Texas.

Either you don't follow North Texas or you don't read threads thoroughly. K State tried to BACK OUT OF THIS GAME. It was either - we cancel the game - or we accept the date that they provided for us. What would you have North Texas do, cancel the freaking game? If you believe that is the right decision - than YOU are fooling yourself.

anyone who disagrees with you automatically doesn't follow north texas , their opinion and post is discounted, and are always right. you really do have good input, but you are such a jerk about it. i was told by administration that with the return of retired k/state coach, that they want out of road games such as the one with us and tried to cancell.rv refused to bend, and the result was a date change that would bring a big 12 school to last game played at fouts with possibility of tv coverage. i agree that historically we have drawn poorly over thanksgiving, but i also agree that this is a great opportunity for us to step up to the plate and be counted. i will accept your bet with the followinf modification: i will donate a $1 per seat for attendance over our home average prior to this game, if you will do the same for seats under our average. for example, if our average home attandence is 18,000, and only 15,000 show up, then you owe athletic dep. $3,000. on the other hand, if 21,000 attend, i owe the same. end result is that north texas wins either way.[ also, i don't necessarly disagree with you that we were passed over by utep, i just have never seen it print. lighten up a little, smarty pants]

[HoustonEagle]

Juat for fun I will go on record to say we will have 20,000+ for this game and if both teams have a winning record it will sell out.

asalaam alikum

and

Go Mean Green!

[stebo]

anyone who disagrees with you automatically doesn't follow north texas , their opinion and post is discounted, and are always right. you really do have good input, but you are such a jerk about it. i was told by administration that with the return of retired k/state coach, that they want out of road games such as the one with us and tried to cancell.rv refused to bend, and the result was a date change that would bring a big 12 school to last game played at fouts with possibility of tv coverage. i agree that historically we have drawn poorly over thanksgiving, but i also agree that this is a great opportunity for us to step up to the plate and be counted. i will accept your bet with the followinf modification: i will donate a $1 per seat for attendance over our home average prior to this game, if you will do the same for seats under our average. for example, if our average home attandence is 18,000, and only 15,000 show up, then you owe athletic dep. $3,000. on the other hand, if 21,000 attend, i owe the same. end result is that north texas wins either way.[ also, i don't necessarly disagree with you that we were passed over by utep, i just have never seen it print. lighten up a little, smarty pants]

It sounds like we actually agree. I don't have an extra 3 grand sitting around, putting up the 1 would be pushing it for me and I don't welch on bets (ask the crow that I ate in New Orleans). I don't mean to be a crotchety old man... I just have a boiling point for incorrect statements because with our fans, once they are posted on the internet - even on GMG, they somehow become "fact" from there on out. I think that you might have gotten some of the bitterness that was directed at the entire thread, not you personally. I apologize if I hurt your feelings wardly.

[FirefightnRick]

I'll consider the bet and get back to you.

Might I remind you we AVERAGED 18,000 for our home attendance this year. So Stebo isn't going all that far out on a limb with his offer, especially if somehow we get our miracle turnaround next year? If this game were to actually draw 18k after Thanksgiving it very well might have been a sell out in September. If Stebo is so confident this is such a great deal for us then surely a Big 12 team returning to Fouts will draw at least what the last Big 12 team drew, considering we have actually increased our average since that time? So before you agree on the $1,000, I suggest you change the attendance to 28,500. And if you two want to really go traditional, I'd be happy to supply the Crow meat once again. Except this time we'll cook it my way, not Stebo's. I don't want to see someone else get sick in public again with food I supplied.

Rick

Edited January 2, 2010 by FirefightnRick

[UNT90]

Might I remind you we AVERAGED 18,000 for our home attendance this year. So Stebo isn't going all that far out on a limb with his offer, especially if somehow we get our miracle turnaround next year? If this game were to actually draw 18k after Thanksgiving it very well might have been a sell out in September. If Stebo is so confident this is such a great deal for us then surely a Big 12 team returning to Fouts will draw at least what the last Big 12 team drew, considering we have actually increased our average since that time? So before you agree on the $1,000, I suggest you change the attendance to 28,500. And if you two want to really go traditional, I'd be happy to supply the Crow meat once again. Except this time we'll cook it my way, not Stebo's. I don't want to see someone else get sick in public again with food I supplied.

Rick

Which was the point of my original post.

People may think that I am negative, but let me ask you, what has there been to be positive about in the football program in the last 5 years? Yes, that may change next year, and I hope it does, but the odds say it won't. Yes, I am frustrated by those who not only don't seem to mind the failure, but then preach to others that they just need to "get on board" with the program (Stebo, this is not directed at you). I expect the 4th largest university in Texas not to be the 10th best FBS football school in Texas (out of 10). I expect consequences for losing. I expect better.

If anyone else doesn't, well, you get what you tolerate.

Edited January 2, 2010 by UNT90

[wardly]

It sounds like we actually agree. I don't have an extra 3 grand sitting around, putting up the 1 would be pushing it for me and I don't welch on bets (ask the crow that I ate in New Orleans). I don't mean to be a crotchety old man... I just have a boiling point for incorrect statements because with our fans, once they are posted on the internet - even on GMG, they somehow become "fact" from there on out. I think that you might have gotten some of the bitterness that was directed at the entire thread, not you personally. I apologize if I hurt your feelings wardly.

we are in violent agreement. i try to be accurate in my posts, but will admitt that some are more opinion that fact based upon what i read on other boards and out of town articles. apologizy accepted, and keep providing good information. i appreciate your love for north texas! thanks, ward white