Why I Feel This Team Is Struggling

UNT90 · December 30, 2009

The MVC is definitely a better basketball league than the belt. Wasn't it just 5 years ago they got like four teams in the Dance? The CAA is usually just a one bid league, so maybe it wouldn't be that much of a step up. But schools like George Mason and VCU have had arguably as much success(if not more) as the Hilltoppers in the NCAA's in recent years. That is a basketball league tho - JJ would be THE guy at a school there as opposed to NT where he's at best on par with the football Coach.

Bite your tongue!! Todd Dodge has not earn the right yet to be on par with JJ!!

As far as the MVC, they may be in a little of a down cycle:

"After nine straight seasons with multiple NCAA tournament participants, the Missouri Valley Conference has had just one representative the past two years."

From this article about last year's tournament: http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/ncaatourney0...uide09_research

CMJ · December 30, 2009

Bite your tongue!! Todd Dodge has not earn the right yet to be on par with JJ!!

Hey, that's how I feel! I'm just trying to be realistic. Despite the dozen or so of us that post all the time on the basketball board, the football one still gets the vast majority of traffic, even in an offseason after five straight terrible seasons.

untwillrise · December 30, 2009

They key is Hogans! I said this at the UTA and I say it now Hogans is our best post defender and our most athletic player. He is becoming my favorite player without playing.

Also Shorter and Thomas are no Dennis and McCoy.

TheTastyGreek · December 30, 2009

They key is Hogans! I said this at the UTA and I say it now Hogans is our best post defender and our most athletic player. He is becoming my favorite player without playing.
Also Shorter and Thomas are no Dennis and McCoy.

On the flip side... McCoy and Dennis were no Shorter and Thomas. Both pairs have distinct strengths and weaknesses, and both are very talented.

greenminer · December 30, 2009

How about an update on how we match up with UALR?

Travis · December 30, 2009

On the flip side... McCoy and Dennis were no Shorter and Thomas. Both pairs have distinct strengths and weaknesses, and both are very talented.

I haven't really seen much out of Thomas lately. Then again, i haven't been paying much attention to him either. What have you seen that makes you think he is very talented?

BleedGreen · December 30, 2009

I haven't really seen much out of Thomas lately. Then again, i haven't been paying much attention to him either. What have you seen that makes you think he is very talented?

Thomas can knock down the 3 and is not afraid to drive. He is our second best natural scorer who can create his own shot after Tristan.

foutsrouts · December 30, 2009

Thomas can knock down the 3 and is not afraid to drive. He is our second best natural scorer who can create his own shot after Tristan.

Josh might dispute that, but he obviously has some limitations. Hope Thomas can get it going like he did at the beginning of the season against some of the weaker competition. We certainly need someone else to step up and put it in the hole.

GrandGreen · December 31, 2009

Good points by Tasty. I can't remember a JJ team that is this bad at rebounding which is strange because the front court is the same as last year. Teams are really dominating their offensive glass against the Green. The defense is very disappointing inasmuch as that was supposed to be improved over last year. However, I do believe the biggest issue is at point guard. All last year, I took issue with those that thought NT's problem was bad point guard play because Johnson and White was a good point combo. This year with Johnson out, and White having to carry most of the load, the point is a big problem. White having to play long minutes at point is taking away a lot of his offense. He is not a natural point and I believe he is being forced into using much too much of his energy on just getting the ball down the court. Unfortunately, he is about the only option on the team. Hopefully as the season progresses, Williams can at least give him longer rests.

As far as Thomas and Shorter, it is still a little early to tell. McCoy was not a big factor until his senior year and Dennis had the benefit of a redshirt year. I do wonder about the opinion that Thomas as the second best natural shooting. He hasn't shown much yet and I would rate his shooting definitely behind White, Thompson, and Mangrum. Nether Thomas or Shorter have yet shown the defense of Dennis despite being taller. I do prefer Thomas as a starter with Mangrum coming off the bench with more minutes.

foutsrouts · December 31, 2009

Well, the front court has the same two starters as last year, but we are missing several very critical pieces. Hogans and Stewart were extremely quick defenders and rebounders, and we seem to basically be trying to replace them with an 18 year old Holmen and a six-four or so JC transfer in Shorter. Even Howerton played a pretty good defensive role in certain games last year. In a nutshell, we are missing a lot of what we had last year all over the court, and I hope we can quickly find a way to make up for it. JJ has got a tough job this year and let us hope that he can figure this thing out.

Travis · January 3, 2010

Josh might dispute that, but he obviously has some limitations. Hope Thomas can get it going like he did at the beginning of the season against some of the weaker competition. We certainly need someone else to step up and put it in the hole.

How many points per game is he averaging? I am sure it might be an oversight on my part... I know he did really well by hitting 5 3's in an exhibition game. but, i don't recall him setting the world on fire since then. I haven't really seen all this great talent yet.

FirefightnRick · January 3, 2010

The defense is very disappointing inasmuch as that was supposed to be improved over last year.

I don't recall us ever having a defense, throughout an entire season, worth mentioning. That is the reason we will never earn an open invitation to anything. We don't play a tough enough defense to do that. And that's coaching, plain and simple. JJ has figured out a perfect formula for keeping a job at North Texas till 2025. Schedule just enough patsy's in a 29 game season to get to that magical 20th win and everyone remains happy. It's sickening.

Rick

Pen Yan Fan · January 4, 2010

Is that true? I need to see proof

Here are our Division II or NAIA wins under Jones:

2001-2002--- Texas A & M--Kingsville; St. Edwards

2002-2003--- St. Edwards; Texas A & M--Commerce

2003-2004---- NW Oklahoma State; Hardin Simmons

2004-2005--- Angelo State; UT-Permian Basin

2005-2006--- Hardin Simmons; Angelo State; UT-Permian Basin

2006-2007--Cameron; Jarvis Christian; Belhaven

2007-2008---Cameron; Western New Mexico; Texas A & M International

2008-2009---Cameron

2009-2010--- Cameron; University of the Southwest

Graddean · January 4, 2010

A couple of years ago, I talked to an ex asst coach from one of the Belt schools. I asked him about UNT. His answer was they always came in with more talent than us, but they always beat UNT.

CMJ · January 4, 2010

A couple of years ago, I talked to an ex asst coach from one of the Belt schools. I asked him about UNT. His answer was they always came in with more talent than us, but they always beat UNT.

While this may be true if you look at our full roster - I usually feel other Sunbelt teams have a "go to guy" in the clutch and we rarely seem to. Who was our last true one? Kendrick Davis would be my answer(even in Calvin Watson's senior season when he was our leading scorer - KD took most of the big end of game shots). I suppose you could argue Josh, but I'm not sure he always wants the ball in the last few seconds the way KD seemed to.

Edited January 4, 2010 by CMJ

FirefightnRick · January 4, 2010

Here are our Division II or NAIA wins under Jones:
2001-2002--- Texas A & M--Kingsville; St. Edwards
2002-2003--- St. Edwards; Texas A & M--Commerce
2003-2004---- NW Oklahoma State; Hardin Simmons
2004-2005--- Angelo State; UT-Permian Basin
2005-2006--- Hardin Simmons; Angelo State; UT-Permian Basin
2006-2007--Cameron; Jarvis Christian; Belhaven
2007-2008---Cameron; Western New Mexico; Texas A & M International
2008-2009---Cameron
2009-2010--- Cameron; University of the Southwest

Hey, we sure appreciate you taking the time to look all that up. Must have took awhile, huh?

Rick

calvin · January 4, 2010

Well Rick,

We need to go out and hire a coach that gives us 25 wins a year and NCAA tourney bids every year b/c that is what we are used to. We shouldnt stand for this coach that only barely squeaks out 20 wins a year.

calvin · January 5, 2010

We have won 63 games the previous 3 years with 7 of them going against non D-1 schools. So that means we have 56 wins in the last 3 years which is about 19 a year. We have been to the tourney once in the last 3 years and we have been beat out by the tourney champ and the team that has been sucessful in the NCAA the last 2 years. Maybe my expectations are too low but I would take 20 wins and a chance to win the conference tourney year in and year out as opposed to what ULM has or FAU or MTSU has.

As far as the schedule goes, the only reason why we play these non D-1 schools is b/c the major conference teams never want to play us in Denton. And TCU and SMU want no part of us.

NT80 · January 5, 2010

As far as the schedule goes, the only reason why we play these non D-1 schools is b/c the major conference teams never want to play us in Denton.

In Division I, there are 347 teams.

Buford_Julep · January 5, 2010

A couple of years ago, I talked to an ex asst coach from one of the Belt schools. I asked him about UNT. His answer was they always came in with more talent than us, but they always beat UNT.

The last time we played UT, Head Coach Rick Barnes said Johnny Jones has done a great job with his team. Just like he has every year since he has been there. He said it on a Fox Southwest interview.

FirefightnRick · January 6, 2010

We have won 63 games the previous 3 years with 7 of them going against non D-1 schools. So that means we have 56 wins in the last 3 years which is about 19 a year. We have been to the tourney once in the last 3 years and we have been beat out by the tourney champ and the team that has been sucessful in the NCAA the last 2 years. Maybe my expectations are too low but I would take 20 wins and a chance to win the conference tourney year in and year out as opposed to what ULM has or FAU or MTSU has.
As far as the schedule goes, the only reason why we play these non D-1 schools is b/c the major conference teams never want to play us in Denton. And TCU and SMU want no part of us.

See, there's a pleasantly happy fan right there. There's plenty of these type basketball fans to stay till the next ice age. When we squeek out another 20 win season it will be like Christmas for him the rest of the year.

Carry on!

Rick

Edited January 6, 2010 by FirefightnRick

LittleMeanGreenMan · January 6, 2010

I coudln't care less if the team is struggggling. I wanna kiss you! Ahhhhhh!

CMJ · January 6, 2010

See, there's a pleasantly happy fan right there. There's plenty of these type basketball fans to stay till the next ice age. When we squeek out another 20 win season it will be like Christmas for him the rest of the year.
Carry on!
Rick

I don't know if we're happy as clams Rick, but all you need to do is look at our history to see we aren't exactly a basketball power. Our all time winning percentage is around 46%. Forget the 20 win seasons for a second...we have had five straight .500 or better seasons which really is not that long(not counting this season). Do you have any idea when the last time that happened for us?

From the 1917-18 season until 1930-31 we had fourteen in a row. Since then we hadn't done it till last year. So in nearly 80 years every kid who played ball at NT four years had at least one season where he lost more than he won until like 2 years ago.

Edited January 6, 2010 by CMJ

FirefightnRick · January 7, 2010

I don't know if we're happy as clams Rick, but all you need to do is look at our history to see we aren't exactly a basketball power. Our all time winning percentage is around 46%. Forget the 20 win seasons for a second...we have had five straight .500 or better seasons which really is not that long(not counting this season). Do you have any idea when the last time that happened for us?
From the 1917-18 season until 1930-31 we had fourteen in a row. Since then we hadn't done it till last year. So in nearly 80 years every kid who played ball at NT four years had at least one season where he lost more than he won until like 2 years ago.

Ok, I call the celebration for all of that to be that last weekend we had down in New Orleans a while ago. "Yeah, we're at .500 plus, and at the tourney". Ok, so that's done. So when can we expect to see improvement over simply getting to .500 and a trip to the tourney every 20 years?

Rick

Edited January 7, 2010 by FirefightnRick

TheTastyGreek · January 7, 2010

Ok, so when can we expect to see improvement over simply getting to .500?
Rick

The past three years, the current one, and next season (if not beyond).

These are good times. Even if we don't manage that big breakthrough step, these are still good times. We can hope for the attention-grabbing success while still enjoying the ones that are so significant to our program.

There's plenty of stuff about this athletic program to be angry or frustrated or disappointed about. Men's Basketball isn't one of them.