Will Contraction Lead To Smart Expansion In The Sun Belt Conference?

[KingDL1]

for someone who is not trying to be a jerk you do an excellent job. since when is everything you say is correct and others wrong. i don't see you providing data to back up your statements other than "i'm right and you're wrong".by the way , i said that is "my understanding" regarding smu and cusa baseball program requirement,which is based upon a conversation with athletic administration a few years ago.. maybe you are right, but if so why are we talking about adding a baseball program, which would be just another underfunded sport? i'm sure you have the insite for all of us, so please share.

Baseball for the Big 12 North, Go Mean Green!!!

[wardly]

Again, where in the world are you getting your information? Almost 90% of what you just both posted is incorrect. There is no conference bylaw for CUSA regarding baseball. SMU is not "grandfathered" into anything. I am not trying to be a jerk, but you guys seem to be just making stuff up. We were passed over for UTEP. UTEP does not have baseball. Come on guys - try to be somewhat honest with your posts.

Maybe these are items that are important to you? They certainly are not deal breakers for CUSA (or any other conference) and expansion. Obviously, a well rounded school is what all conferences seek - but that could be accomplished with higher academics just as easily as baseball. We all would love baseball - and that is next on the list after the stadium - but it has absolutely nothing to do with CUSA, their rules, or why we were passed over for UTEP last time. UTEP got the invite because they average 40K people a football game, have great basketball with great attendance, and have made a commitment to their athletic program - primarily, they have an athletic budget exceeding $25 million a year (per CUSA bylaws). They do not have baseball and baseball had nothing to do with the last expansion slot that we did not get.

their budget is 20% less than you stated, so try to be honest with your posts. also, who told you we were passed over by utep? [rv,et, or elvis]. finally,not all want a baseball program , so i guess you are just making stuff up.

[stebo]

their budget is 20% less than you stated, so try to be honest with your posts. also, who told you we were passed over by utep? [rv,et, or elvis]. finally,not all want a baseball program , so i guess you are just making stuff up.

Are you joking? Did you just start following North Texas? During the last round of expansion, CUSA visited three schools - La Tech, North Texas, and UTEP. UTEP was chosen. Google it. I guess that I was just assuming that you had been following the program for awhile. And I am not trying to be a jerk - it just bothers me when people make statements as facts when they simply aren't. There are countless articles and interviews with RV with a simple Google search about the last expansion of CUSA when they chose UTEP as the 12th and final school. I don't need to prove it, it is fact - just like the sky is blue and the world is round.

You are correct - a baseball program shows the sign of a well rounded athletic program. The problem is that we cannot just add a baseball program. Due to Title IX, we have to add equal funding to a women's sport as well. So it is not just adding baseball, it is adding baseball and another women's sport to boot. All that being said, it will happen once the stadium is built. No worries, our administration has been very clear that baseball is next. The Belt has great baseball so we will have a nice home right off the bat.

As for the CUSA budget bylaws, I will try to find a link to make sure that I am correct. It was in an article written by Brett Vito during the last expansion cycle so there is no telling if it is correct or not. Good question - and a VALID one. The article stated that CUSA bylaws required that all CUSA athletic departments have a budget of $20 million a year. Maybe that was the maximum, maybe it was the minimum. The article went on to explain that the privates have an easy time of showing a $20 million dollar athletic budget without actually "spending" $20 million a year - simply because their tuition is much higher and that is a part of their "budget" even though the school simply writes that tuition off. At a public school, our athletic department has to literally cut a check to the registrar for the tuition of our scholarship athletes. Got it smarty pants?

[UNT_playmaker]

Good Article

[stebo]

"Although the student fee was needed to fund the stadium, it was also needed to allow the University to be competitive in all their sports offerings at the Football Bowl Subdivision(FBS) level. The fee will be permanent and is also structured so it can be slowly raised each year in the future without having to go through another student referendum. Texas state law caps the maximum athletic fee in Texas at $20 per semester hour.

(The UNT athletic department reported their athletic budget in 2007 to the Office of Postsecondary Education as $15.8 million. Member universities of the Sun Belt Conference reported athletic budgets in 2007 ranged from $3M to $21M per year. Considering UNT's enrollment of 34,000 students, simple math suggests that a $7 fee increase could add around $7M to UNT's athletic budget once implemented. This suggests UNT's athletic budget will jump up to the level of schools in the higher profile Conference USA by 2015-2020 at the latest, and very possibly may surpass most of those schools' budgets by 2025, creating more a legitimate possibility of UNT moving into a higher profile conference, likely either the more regionally appropriate CUSA or perhaps even the Mountain West Conference at that time. CUSA athletic budgets ranged from about $18M-$30M and MWC athletic budgets ranged from about $18–40M in 2007---again all numbers per the US Department of Education's Office of Postsecondary Education.)"

http://www.ed.gov/index.jhtml

Still looking - but I think that I found some of the basis for the article.

Oh, and here you go:

In 2008, the athletic department tried again for student funding, this time making the referrendum on an athletic fee about the cold facts about Fouts --- that the 56 year old stadium was crumbling under its age, that generators regularly had to be brought in for games, and that the new stadium was probably a cheaper, more workable idea than a renovation. The Athletic Director also stressed that the Athletics Department understood that academics came before athletics. There was also mention of the fact that poor facilities lead UNT to be passed over for UTEP in the last expansion of the higher profile CUSA.

Now explain to me where baseball is mentioned? By the way - I am still looking for even more links. I want you to understand that I do not just post stuff without having facts behind my words.

[stebo]

This article says UTEP's current athletic budget is $19,200,000, because CUSA asked them to make cut-backs. Or budget is not that high, but with the athletic fee kicking in after our new stadium is done, we should out grow their budget.

http://www.elpasotimes.com/minersmania/ci_12839281

Did anyone actually read this article or just assume that CUSA asked UTEP to cut their budget? CUSA has tried to trim costs at the CONFERENCE OFFICE level - not at the institutional level. In fact, UTEP is having money problems and this article is all about maximizing their $20 million dollar budget because it is so low compared to other CUSA schools. Click on the link and actually read the article.

UTEP's budget last season of $20 million tied it for sixth in the 12-team C-USA, with the gap between fifth and eighth at about a $1 million difference. Stull said the average BCS conference school has a $50 to $60 million budget, while the University of Texas -- UTEP's Sept. 26 opponent in football -- spends an estimated $100 million on athletics.

And I never said that CUSA had a $25 million dollar budget bylaw, I said that they had a $20 million dollar bylaw - and that UTEP's budget exceeded that. I estimated that their budget was about $25 million when expansion took place because those were the numbers being thrown around in the papers. This article says that the budget is $20 million. Either way - it is 6th or 7th in CUSA - and with the new student fee, we should pass that up by 2011 or 2012.

[wardly]

http://www.ed.gov/index.jhtml

Still looking - but I think that I found some of the basis for the article.

Oh, and here you go:

Now explain to me where baseball is mentioned? By the way - I am still looking for even more links. I want you to understand that I do not just post stuff without having facts behind my words.

where was this quote published, and who was quoted? also, i never said that baseball was required at original cusa expansion, only that it was my understanding that it would be in the future. just for information, you might wish to brouse the cusa board where they discuss expansion. i could not see where we were mentioned. of course, i have no way of knowing if they have the facts, and unless you reference a reliable sourse in your posts they are all subject to speculation.

[Guest GrayEagleOne]

The Sun Belt will likely always be among the bottom two or three FBS conferences so they might as well go ahead and expand as soon as the ban is lifted.

Why will the SBC always be a bottom-feeder? Because expansion by the higher profile conferences will strip them of their better teams and the only way to stay viable is to take in FCS teams. No other conference is willing to do that at this point.

I think that the best way for the Belt to become more competitive is to do as Troy does....oversign. North Texas and the two Floridas are the only two members not in the bottom 25% academically so the others at least should be able to improve by signing some very good players with marginal academics. Some of those 3 and 4 star athletes might still qualify or get a chance to earn a degree of some type.

Personally, I think that the Sun Belt should go to 12 teams ASAP. I would add Texas State and UTSA. That would give an eastern division of WKU, Middle Tennessee, Troy, South Alabama, FAU and FIU and a western division of Arkansas State, ULM, Louisiana, North Texas, Texas State and UTSA. UALR would stay for basketball an other sports until they can find a new home.

PS: Regarding the baseball controversy, the three known candidates for the last CUSA opening were UTEP, North Texas and Louisiana Tech. The only one with baseball was La Tech and they supposedly finished third. That tells me that baseball was not a factor although it could have been used as an excuse to allay any resentment by us for not being chosen.

Edited January 2, 2010 by GrayEagleOne

[Chrisattsu]

The Sun Belt will likely always be among the bottom two or three FBS conferences so they might as well go ahead and expand as soon as the ban is lifted.

Why will the SBC always be a bottom-feeder? Because expansion by the higher profile conferences will strip them of their better teams and the only way to stay viable is to take in FCS teams. No other conference is willing to do that at this point.

I think that the best way for the Belt to become more competitive is to do as Troy does....oversign. North Texas and the two Floridas are the only two members not in the bottom 25% academically so the others at least should be able to improve by signing some very good players with marginal academics. Some of those 3 and 4 star athletes might still qualify or get a chance to earn a degree of some type.

Personally, I think that the Sun Belt should go to 12 teams ASAP. I would add Texas State and UTSA. That would give an eastern division of WKU, Middle Tennessee, Troy, South Alabama, FAU and FIU and a western division of Arkansas State, ULM, Louisiana, North Texas, Texas State and UTSA. UALR would stay for basketball an other sports until they can find a new home.

PS: Regarding the baseball controversy, the three known candidates for the last CUSA opening were UTEP, North Texas and Louisiana Tech. The only one with baseball was La Tech and they supposedly finished third. That tells me that baseball was not a factor although it could have been used as an excuse to allay any resentment by us for not being chosen.

I look forward to this

[NM Green]

You know that is one of the juiciest 12 member lineups I have seen. We all keep wanting NMSU again but they are content in the WAC. Rotate that championship game between Orlando and Nashville and now you have destination excitement for the championship game and the bowls: Orlando, Mobile and New Orleans; Nashville, Mobile, and New Orleans. The footprint lives and grows right where it should, in the deep south.

GMG

[forevereagle]

where was this quote published, and who was quoted? also, i never said that baseball was required at original cusa expansion, only that it was my understanding that it would be in the future. just for information, you might wish to brouse the cusa board where they discuss expansion. i could not see where we were mentioned. of course, i have no way of knowing if they have the facts, and unless you reference a reliable sourse in your posts they are all subject to speculation.

First, it is spelled BROWSE. Second, a message board is not a source of facts.

[wardly]

First, it is spelled BROWSE. Second, a message board is not a source of facts.

i am so glad to see someone state that "a message board is not a source of facts," but in my opinion one of conversation. 2nd, i never could spell, hence my love of e/mails.

[NT80]

PS: Regarding the baseball controversy, the three known candidates for the last CUSA opening were UTEP, North Texas and Louisiana Tech. The only one with baseball was La Tech and they supposedly finished third. That tells me that baseball was not a factor although it could have been used as an excuse to allay any resentment by us for not being chosen.

Baseball was not the main selecting criteria, just a good extra. I've heard the main reasons UTEP was selected over NT and La Tech (since UTEP didn't have baseball either) was they are a Southwest Airlines city (easy travel there, same for us), their football facility (Sun Bowl), and attendance (35K football, 10K basketball). We were told to get our football facility and other general facilities updated, increase donors and attendance, and try again next time.

[wardly]

the following is opinion only, but if big east looses one to big 10, they will probably take 2 from cusa, ucf in all sports, and ecu football only.if pac 10 takes byu and utah from m. west, they probably will take boise and houston. a lot of moving parts, but 3 cusa spots could open up in the next few years. anyway, fun to speculate.

[UNTFan23]

the following is opinion only, but if big east looses one to big 10, they will probably take 2 from cusa, ucf in all sports, and ecu football only.if pac 10 takes byu and utah from m. west, they probably will take boise and houston. a lot of moving parts, but 3 cusa spots could open up in the next few years. anyway, fun to speculate.

[AnotherEagleFan]

Baseball was not the main selecting criteria, just a good extra. I've heard the main reasons UTEP was selected over NT and La Tech (since UTEP didn't have baseball either) was they are a Southwest Airlines city (easy travel there, same for us), their football facility (Sun Bowl), and attendance (35K football, 10K basketball). We were told to get our football facility and other general facilities updated, increase donors and attendance, and try again next time.

NT80 this is the most accurate post on the subject.

[wardly]

sory, i went to elmntry scool in arcansas and didnt learn to spel wel. howver, n.txs has always ben able to cash my chexs. ill tri to du beter.