Unt's Place After The Next Expansions Are Done

[Quoner]

The Sun Belt sucks.... The best chance to get of that conference was after our four straight conference titles but UTEP was picked ahead of us, we were the perfect pick, we were replacing the other metroplex team.

NT didnt have its stuff together the result is where we are now.

Maybe you should put the Saints logo as your avatar. You've already submarined the Rangers, Stars and Cowboys last season, so maybe use your fail powers in a new way?

[stebo]

I am not going to get into this argument because it is simply impossible to win. I will say that all of the progress we have made has been in the Belt and I do not believe it would have happened in a Western based league.

Also, some of you need to educate yourselves on the Belt a little more. The Belt now has two bowl tie ins (starting with 2010 season) - NO Bowl and GMAC. The WAC does have three but one of those is in Boise and the other is in Hawaii - personally, I wouldn't want or be able to go to either one of those bowl games. The third is in New Mexico and while it is a nice place to go, I would much rather go to the Belt Bowl game cities.

[Ibleedgreen]

Sun Belt over the WAC or the MAC.

[DeepGreen]

The only thing holding back North Texas is North Texas itself. Want evidence? We still have a 5-31 coach running the show and being outrecruited.

[LoveMG]

if north texas wants to play major college football it needs out of the sunbelt.

[wardly]

Times are different now. While Boise State were our conference mates they have actually surpassed us by a hundred miles and widening the gap even more. Just because something wasn't great before does not mean it would not work now. Yes I agree that NT needs to focus on NT but I think there needs to be a sense of urgency when it comes to the subject of switching conferences. I think the Sunbelt is the worst conference in D1 football so in my estimation I think the WAC would be an upgrade.

then we are the worst of the worst.

[wardly]

if north texas wants to play major college football it needs out of the sunbelt.

where can we go, and who wants us?

[UNTflyer]

then we are the worst of the worst.

[Got5onIt]

Nothing wrong with the SBC right now. Everything wrong with the coach at NT. How can anyone trust the current regime to make good decisions for NT's future when they cant even get the coaching situation right?

[eulessismore]

if north texas wants to play major college football it needs out of the sunbelt.

So, how do we get interest from a "better" conference while being worst or next to worst in the Sunbelt.

[Rudy]

if north texas wants to play major college football it needs out of the sunbelt.

You know what, You're right. Let's petition to be the 12th team in the Big 10.

[DallasGreen]

You know what, You're right. Let's petition to be the 12th team in the Big 10.

Since the SBC is soooooooo weak and we are a bottom feeder, maybe we should petition the SLC or the Lone Star

[UNTflyer]

Atheltic Directors and Conference Commissioners are smart businessmen. They are not going to pick a school to join based solely on how the existing football team is performing.

They are going to look at television market, size of the school, potential for revenue, facilities, and geographic location. In all of these respects, UNT is probably in the top 5 of the mid-major conferences' lists of potential schools.

TV market - #5

Size of school - #19 (or #20 - #25, depending on which "Size of school" list you look at)

Potential for revenue - 150,000 local alumni, 2.5 million households - good potential to sell out every home game if married to the right conference

Facilities - greatly improved, and getting better - new football stadium, new AC, new track, softball, soccer, tennis, and possibly baseball facilities, 10,000 seat basketball arena.

Geography - excellent fit for C-USA or Big 12, OK fit for MWC or SEC, poor fit for WAC.

Best case (but extremely unlikely): Big 12 gets raided and UNT is invited to join the North division.

Most Likely realignment for UNT: C-USA West division.

[Green Dozer]

Potential for revenue - 150,000 local alumni, 2.5 million households - good potential to sell out every home game if married to the right conference

They also look at committment from the fan base. We had a corporate donor who said they were not interested in us because of the lack of support for the program from our alumni/fans. Attendance for the first couple of years in the new stadium will be up no doubt. It is the next 3-5 year window that will determine how this "potential" plays out in relation to moving to a new conference. I think we are what we are for now.

[stebo]

They also look at committment from the fan base. We had a corporate donor who said they were not interested in us because of the lack of support for the program from our alumni/fans. Attendance for the first couple of years in the new stadium will be up no doubt. It is the next 3-5 year window that will determine how this "potential" plays out in relation to moving to a new conference. I think we are what we are for now.

Bingo. I was out with some friends this weekend and they kept checking the Cowboys score. One of them turned to me and asked who I cheer for (because I was having no reaction to the score updates)... my answer - "I don't really follow pro, I like college ball" - their response, "Oh yeah, well who is your college team?" - my answer - "North Texas Mean Green". The reply, "Well, yeah - you went to school there - but what real program?" I just sat there and said, "Well, its bowl season so I am pulling for Troy and Middle Tennessee because they are in the Belt with the Mean Green" - they looked at me like I was insane. This group of people - ALL North Texas grads that come to the games on Homecoming every year.

The mindset is that we are not a real program and we will never be a real program. These are not apathetic fans - they actually come out for Mean Green games every year. This is the hill that we have to climb and getting beat up in the WAC will not "fix" it. Going to CUSA might help a little as the teams would be more familiar - but as far as this group was concerned - there is ZERO difference between the WAC, Sun Belt, CUSA, and even MWC. Are they idiots? Maybe - but perception is reality. The only thing that NT needs to do is win. It doesn't matter who we are beating, we need to win. Our BEST chances of that happening are in the Belt. If we win, we fill that stadium, period. We fill that stadium and we move to a better conference (or the Belt improves to be a better option that CUSA). But its going to take a long time, not a year or two - a decade of winning might change that mentality of our alumni. Until then, I will be there every other Saturday cheering on the Mean Green and my answer will always be "Mean Green" for my favorite team with no other non-Sun Belt team being mentioned after that. You have to support your own conference or you are pissing on your own house. If you live in a trailer - make it the best trailer possible and people will respond that you have pride in your own property. Having pride in your organization and the groups that they associate with will be what takes us to the next level, not bitching and moaning on a message board about a conference that we consistently place last in.

[aztecskin]

Bingo. I was out with some friends this weekend and they kept checking the Cowboys score. One of them turned to me and asked who I cheer for (because I was having no reaction to the score updates)... my answer - "I don't really follow pro, I like college ball" - their response, "Oh yeah, well who is your college team?" - my answer - "North Texas Mean Green". The reply, "Well, yeah - you went to school there - but what real program?" I just sat there and said, "Well, its bowl season so I am pulling for Troy and Middle Tennessee because they are in the Belt with the Mean Green" - they looked at me like I was insane. This group of people - ALL North Texas grads that come to the games on Homecoming every year.

The mindset is that we are not a real program and we will never be a real program. These are not apathetic fans - they actually come out for Mean Green games every year. This is the hill that we have to climb and getting beat up in the WAC will not "fix" it. Going to CUSA might help a little as the teams would be more familiar - but as far as this group was concerned - there is ZERO difference between the WAC, Sun Belt, CUSA, and even MWC. Are they idiots? Maybe - but perception is reality. The only thing that NT needs to do is win. It doesn't matter who we are beating, we need to win. Our BEST chances of that happening are in the Belt. If we win, we fill that stadium, period. We fill that stadium and we move to a better conference (or the Belt improves to be a better option that CUSA). But its going to take a long time, not a year or two - a decade of winning might change that mentality of our alumni. Until then, I will be there every other Saturday cheering on the Mean Green and my answer will always be "Mean Green" for my favorite team with no other non-Sun Belt team being mentioned after that. You have to support your own conference or you are pissing on your own house. If you live in a trailer - make it the best trailer possible and people will respond that you have pride in your own property. Having pride in your organization and the groups that they associate with will be what takes us to the next level, not bitching and moaning on a message board about a conference that we consistently place last in.

So Texas then?

[TIgreen01]

Bingo. I was out with some friends this weekend and they kept checking the Cowboys score. One of them turned to me and asked who I cheer for (because I was having no reaction to the score updates)... my answer - "I don't really follow pro, I like college ball" - their response, "Oh yeah, well who is your college team?" - my answer - "North Texas Mean Green". The reply, "Well, yeah - you went to school there - but what real program?" I just sat there and said, "Well, its bowl season so I am pulling for Troy and Middle Tennessee because they are in the Belt with the Mean Green" - they looked at me like I was insane. This group of people - ALL North Texas grads that come to the games on Homecoming every year.

The mindset is that we are not a real program and we will never be a real program. These are not apathetic fans - they actually come out for Mean Green games every year. This is the hill that we have to climb and getting beat up in the WAC will not "fix" it. Going to CUSA might help a little as the teams would be more familiar - but as far as this group was concerned - there is ZERO difference between the WAC, Sun Belt, CUSA, and even MWC. Are they idiots? Maybe - but perception is reality. The only thing that NT needs to do is win. It doesn't matter who we are beating, we need to win. Our BEST chances of that happening are in the Belt. If we win, we fill that stadium, period. We fill that stadium and we move to a better conference (or the Belt improves to be a better option that CUSA). But its going to take a long time, not a year or two - a decade of winning might change that mentality of our alumni. Until then, I will be there every other Saturday cheering on the Mean Green and my answer will always be "Mean Green" for my favorite team with no other non-Sun Belt team being mentioned after that. You have to support your own conference or you are pissing on your own house. If you live in a trailer - make it the best trailer possible and people will respond that you have pride in your own property. Having pride in your organization and the groups that they associate with will be what takes us to the next level, not bitching and moaning on a message board about a conference that we consistently place last in.

This is a very good post. How great would it be, though, to receive that same magic pill that South Florida got by getting almost immediate acceptance into a BCS auto-qualifier conference. It would perform the same magic for us that it did them. Whether or not that is a complete and total pipe dream is something else entirely.

I also tend to think that a move to CUSA doesn't necessarily help us. Take Marshall for example. When the moved up from I-AA, the first joined the MAC. They DOMINATED that conference and were the Boise St. of their time. Next, instead of moving up to a full fledged Auto-qualifier conference, they took a slight jump up in perception and joined CUSA. The problem is that that conference is/was not the complete push-over that the MAC was....so they fell to just middle of the pack. For us, we have some natural rivals in CUSA that could help us, but more than likely we're going to lose more (though it'd be harder to lose more than we have the last 5 years!). I also think the that the same thing would happen to Boise St....if the PAC 10 does expand and does not take Boise, look for them to have no choice but to accept the bid that would come from the MWC. They'd instantly be playing much tougher competition and would not likely be the best team in that conference.

[Green Dozer]

I think the biggest boost to us would be to be involved in a new "Southwest Conference". As long as we play schools that nobody (the fence sitters) know about, the less interest there will be in our program. Some way, some how there needs to be a conference of us, Tulsa, RIce, Houston, UTEP, SMU, ULL, just to name a few. This would make for good water fountain talk at work, and more turnout for games. Us being in the MWC is not going to generate any more interest than the Sunbelt to the below average fan.

[houstonmeangreen]

I think the biggest boost to us would be to be involved in a new "Southwest Conference". As long as we play schools that nobody (the fence sitters) know about, the less interest there will be in our program. Some way, some how there needs to be a conference of us, Tulsa, RIce, Houston, UTEP, SMU, ULL, just to name a few. This would make for good water fountain talk at work, and more turnout for games. Us being in the MWC is not going to generate any more interest than the Sunbelt to the below average fan.

This would probably need to be initiated by Dr. B. with RV's particiption.....idea tossed around at the pres level.

[UNTflyer]

I think the biggest boost to us would be to be involved in a new "Southwest Conference". As long as we play schools that nobody (the fence sitters) know about, the less interest there will be in our program. Some way, some how there needs to be a conference of us, Tulsa, RIce, Houston, UTEP, SMU, ULL, just to name a few. This would make for good water fountain talk at work, and more turnout for games. Us being in the MWC is not going to generate any more interest than the Sunbelt to the below average fan.

Joining C-USA accomplishes just that.

[stebo]

This is a very good post. How great would it be, though, to receive that same magic pill that South Florida got by getting almost immediate acceptance into a BCS auto-qualifier conference. It would perform the same magic for us that it did them. Whether or not that is a complete and total pipe dream is something else entirely.

I also tend to think that a move to CUSA doesn't necessarily help us. Take Marshall for example. When the moved up from I-AA, the first joined the MAC. They DOMINATED that conference and were the Boise St. of their time. Next, instead of moving up to a full fledged Auto-qualifier conference, they took a slight jump up in perception and joined CUSA. The problem is that that conference is/was not the complete push-over that the MAC was....so they fell to just middle of the pack. For us, we have some natural rivals in CUSA that could help us, but more than likely we're going to lose more (though it'd be harder to lose more than we have the last 5 years!). I also think the that the same thing would happen to Boise St....if the PAC 10 does expand and does not take Boise, look for them to have no choice but to accept the bid that would come from the MWC. They'd instantly be playing much tougher competition and would not likely be the best team in that conference.

Good points but South Florida had no reputation to fix. We have 100 years of football in our yearbooks with about 50% of it being absolutely terrible, another 20% being "ok", about 10% being pretty damn good, and another 20% in the category of "who cares"...

South Florida started from the ground up and never suffered from decades of apathy. South Florida alumni never watched their school moved down to Div IAA and play in the Southland for 15 years. South Florida has never had attendance problems - they started out with 40K+ a game and have stayed there. You can't compare North Texas to anybody but North Texas - because we are our own worst enemies. Until our fans learn to be PROUD of our team and our conference, no matter how good or bad it is, we will never be a target for any other conference. We will always be that pissed off little boy that gets picked on every day. You can see it in the posts on this board some days, the "everyone is out to get us" attitude... the "RV is a terrible athletic director" comments... We have lost good fans to these types of idiotic statements because they didn't want to be associated with morons.

Moving to CUSA would be nice, we would play SMU, Tulsa, Rice, Houston, etc... but guess what - we have scheduled SMU, Tulsa, and Rice for OOC games over the last few years and for years to come - so that excuse is taken away. We have to beat the teams that we play and we play in the Sun Belt. I just don't understand the statement "The Sun Belt Sucks" when we can't win in the Belt. The only way to get back on our feet is to win. How great would a 10 win season be for North Texas? That can happen in the Belt, it isn't a far fetched idea. I don't see the Belt holding Troy, FAU, FIU, or MTSU back. The MUTS got to 10 wins last night and I bet that Troy gets there this season, too...

Until we win and pack the stands with what we have and who we play - we will never get into a better conference. NT fans need to learn pride.

[shaft]

Why is there going to be an opening in CUSA-West?

UNT is not in the expansion talk because there is no serious move that is going to open up a spot in CUSA West.

The SBC is a great place for us; its given us a D1 home, some football success, which has help growth the entire athletic department, including the new stadium.

CUSA is the next step, but their not expanding in Texas and we're not ready to make the move with a high school coach at the helm.

[UNTflyer]

Why is there going to be an opening in CUSA-West?

UNT is not in the expansion talk because there is no serious move that is going to open up a spot in CUSA West.

The SBC is a great place for us; its given us a D1 home, some football success, which has help growth the entire athletic department, including the new stadium.

CUSA is the next step, but their not expanding in Texas and we're not ready to make the move with a high school coach at the helm.

When CUSA loses its east coast members, CUSA could realign a west division team to the east (Tulane).

And I'm not sure why you would say they would not expand in Texas. If east coast teams are picked off, expanding to include Texas teams is the smartest move they could make. It would reduce travel costs for all schools and bring it closer to this southwest conference everyone seems to want.

[Green Mean]

a new "Southwest Conference".

A new Southwest conference is not the best idea. The old SWC actually had powerhouse universities and it still wasn't good enough. There needs to be a larger outreach for the conference when it comes to traveling. It attracts a larger part of the region rather than just Texas and maybe Louisianna and Arkansas. Obviously having in state rivals is a nice thing to have but a new SWC doesn't do anything for me.

[Green Dozer]

A new Southwest conference is not the best idea. The old SWC actually had powerhouse universities and it still wasn't good enough. There needs to be a larger outreach for the conference when it comes to traveling. It attracts a larger part of the region rather than just Texas and maybe Louisianna and Arkansas. Obviously having in state rivals is a nice thing to have but a new SWC doesn't do anything for me.

I agree, but outside of louisiana and arkansas defeats the purpose. For the most part, our fan base is regional. I.E. nearly every school district has a teacher or two from UNT working in it. Probably not in Cal., but in the 5 state region you mention.