Big X To Make Push For 12th Team

KingDL1 · December 15, 2009

TCU brings nothing to the table. Net zero. Big 12 owns the TV market in DFW already, and TCU can't sell out their 44K stadium with a top 5 team.
Arky would definitely be taking a step down regarding $. BYU is intriguing. Here's a money breakdown regarding TV:
The SEC's new 15-year television contracts with ESPN and CBS are the richest (per year) in college sports. For some perspective, here's the reported value of the current network/national cable contracts for the nation's major conferences:
SEC
-- ESPN: 15 years, $2.25 billion
-- CBS: 15 years, $825 million
Big Ten
-- Big Ten Network: 25 years, $2.8 billion* through 2031-32
-- ABC/ESPN: 10 years, $1 billion through 2016
-- CBS: 10 years, $20 million for basketball through 2018-19
ACC
-- ABC/ESPN: Seven years, $258 million
-- Raycom Sports: 10 years, $300 million for basketball
(Both run through 2010-11.)
Big 12
-- ABC/ESPN: Eight years, $480 million through 2015-16
-- Fox Sports Net: Four years, $78 million through 2011-12
Pac-10
-- ABC/ESPN: Five years, $125 million for football
-- Fox Sports Net: Five years, $97 million for football
-- ABC/ESPN: Six years, $52.5 million for basketball
(All run through 2011-12.)
Big East
-- ABC/ESPN: Six years, $200 million through 2013
Mountain West
-- Comcast/CBS College Sports/The Mtn.: Seven years, $82 million through 2013-14
Conference USA
-- CBS College Sports: Six years, $45.8 million
-- ESPN: Six years, $22 million through 2010-11
Exact terms for the MAC, WAC and Sun Belt could not be located.
* -- projected revenue
Source: Sports Business Journal
SI--Mandel

Some people that should know tell me that the Big 12 North is interested in having bigger a presence here in DFW to tap the Texas recruiting market more. UNT is on there list, and according to them and the Big 12 North is not interested in a private school.

NorthTexan95 · December 15, 2009

Notre Dame or Pitt make the most sense...Notre Dame plays 4-5 teams in the Big Ten every year as is......Penn St would kill to have Pitt.. The problem lies in the traditional rivals possible being separated in a two division Big Ten
i.e.. OSU-Mich Indiana-Purdue Mich-MSU Minn-Wisc Northwestern-Illinois Michigan St Penn St
championship game could rotate between Detroit, Chicago and Minneapolis.....

Perhaps you have each division team have one "rival" in the other division they play every year. Michigan and Ohio St could be in seperate divisions but play each other every year. It's an idea.

chomp · December 15, 2009

That's how the SEC does it. Tennessee-Alabama and Georgia-Auburn are old rivalries where both teams are in different divisions of the conference but they still play each year. In the SEC, each team has one permanent opponent from the other division and the other two opponents from the other division rotate each year. The Big 10 could do something similar.

December 16, 2009

I don't understand why the Big XII "owns" the DFW market. They probably do have more combined alumni but they have no universities in the area. North Texas would bring several hundred thousand, maybe more, from alumni and their families, parents, and other supporters. TCU may have fewer alumni but the city of Fort Worth would have a lot more interest if the Frogs were in the Big XII. Ditto for SMU and Dallas. There's nothing like a local home team to stir more interest and watch them on TV/buy sponsor's products even if they don't attend. Of course, any team in this market would have to be competitive and fill their stadia as a show of support.

The Big 12 leans to state universities however, so TCU and SMU would have a long row to hoe. Should they decide to expand, Houston would likely be a stronger possibility. But, I don't see the Big 12 expanding for many, many years.

emmitt01 · December 16, 2009

Some people that should know tell me that the Big 12 North is interested in having bigger a presence here in DFW to tap the Texas recruiting market more. UNT is on there list, and according to them and the Big 12 North is not interested in a private school.

I don't see it. Often people look at our number of alumni and students and throw out that word "potential", forgetting that so many of the "potential" fans are already unreachable due to the athletic experience they got from the NT administration as students and recent grads. We'd have to prove that fan pool can/would be tapped.

KingDL1 · December 16, 2009

I don't see it. Often people look at our number of alumni and students and throw out that word "potential", forgetting that so many of the "potential" fans are already unreachable due to the athletic experience they got from the NT administration as students and recent grads. We'd have to prove that fan pool can/would be tapped.

This is not my opinion it is just what I was told by some people in real estate with more money then god with no affiliations to UNT. These people have a long reach and are well connected with those that make decisions. Other then that I would have never thought this one up. I got the idea they just wanted a big state school, in the DFW area, I don't think the Big 12 North cares about alumni, and mostly they want the ability to invite potential recruits to see them play when in town. The kicker is they said it is all ready being discussed with UNT as a possibility. DFW was prime because of the TV market, and location.

BaylorGuy314 · December 16, 2009

I don't understand why the Big XII "owns" the DFW market. They probably do have more combined alumni but they have no universities in the area. North Texas would bring several hundred thousand, maybe more, from alumni and their families, parents, and other supporters. TCU may have fewer alumni but the city of Fort Worth would have a lot more interest if the Frogs were in the Big XII. Ditto for SMU and Dallas. There's nothing like a local home team to stir more interest and watch them on TV/buy sponsor's products even if they don't attend. Of course, any team in this market would have to be competitive and fill their stadia as a show of support.

What I mean by "own" is that the addition of a TCU wouldn't substantially increase viewership. We're not talking about attendance from alums/families, we're talking about interest from the average joe who will watch TV and increase ratings. That drives big TV contracts and big money.

Most people in DFW, Houston, etc, already watch Big 12 games and have an interest in them. Not everyone does, obviously, but I'd say the average sports fan does, which is why you don't add TCU to make up for a potential Mizzou loss. Instead, you go out and attract a whole new area.

SEC schools make a lot more than B12 schools, so they are not going to be tempted to move. Pac-10 schools have a similiar deal to B12 schools, so there isn't a big money incentive (if any) and then you lose the history and have akward geography for no real gain. The new member would have to come from the MWC or CUSA and BYU and Utah are the closest to Big 12 quality while also adding a new market.

Edited December 16, 2009 by BaylorGuy314

wardly · December 16, 2009

when ark was in the old sw conference, the played in houston and dfw annually, and had a strong texas recruiting base, which has greatly diminished. since moving to the se conference nearly 20 years ago, they have made more money, but have only won the western fball division a few times and never a conference championship. basically, they can't compeat getting 90% of ark high school players, a few kids from shreveport, and leftovers from memphis. plus their alumni really miss playing in texas. we might be susprised at their level of interest should an oppening become available in the big 12.

houstonmeangreen · December 16, 2009

Look for UNT to move to the Big 12 North if a space or two opens up.

Put the crack pipe down..son !

untjim1995 · December 16, 2009

when ark was in the old sw conference, the played in houston and dfw annually, and had a strong texas recruiting base, which has greatly diminished. since moving to the se conference nearly 20 years ago, they have made more money, but have only won the western fball division a few times and never a conference championship. basically, they can't compeat getting 90% of ark high school players, a few kids from shreveport, and leftovers from memphis. plus their alumni really miss playing in texas. we might be susprised at their level of interest should an oppening become available in the big 12.

If Arkansas gave up that much money and prestige from being in the SEC, then they deserve what they get. Arkansas, by the way, may have tradition, but they don't exactly bring a huge emdia market into play for the Midwest-centric Big XII. I think they are perfectly happy in the SEC--and now that the Aggies are giving them a platform from which to poach Texas kids every year at JerryWorld, they get the best of both worlds.

I could see Mizzou leave the Big 12, but if that happens, I would expect the Big XII to go in two directions--get BYU and their NATIONAL FANBASE into the league or get a team like Memphis into the mix, which would give the conference a top hoops program, a bowl game tie-in with the Liberty, and a growing TV market. They will not replace a school in the North with anyone from Texas. As mentioned, TCU adds nothing to the pot, and UT, A&M, Tech, and Baylor want nothing to do with them. Its kind of ironic actually--Baylor wants nothing to do with TCU, which wants nothing to do with SMU, which wants nothing to do with UNT. If they all would stop looking down at each other--same goes with La Tech against the Louisiana schools and UTEP versus NMSU, a very good and strong conference could be cobbled together here in the Southwest again. Oh well.

wardly · December 16, 2009

as per usa today, all the big 10 schools are members of Association of American Universities, an invitation only group of 62 "leading" public and private universities. of all the schools mentioned as a possible addition to big 10, only no dame is not a member of this organization.

wardly · December 16, 2009

Put the crack pipe down..son !

i agree. we can't even get a sponsor for cusa, let alone b12.

December 16, 2009

i agree. we can't even get a sponsor for cusa, let alone b12.

Exactly, although it may be the other way around. We might have a better chance getting a B12 sponsor than one for CUSA. Either way, are we doing anything to try to develop those sponsors?

KingDL1 · December 16, 2009

Exactly, although it may be the other way around. We might have a better chance getting a B12 sponsor than one for CUSA. Either way, are we doing anything to try to develop those sponsors?

It is my understanding that the answer is a clear yes.

SilverEagle · December 16, 2009

Put the crack pipe down..son !

You generally won't get what you really want unless you ask for it. Hayden Fry believed that, and that's why he lobbied for membership in the SWC for North Texas. From my observation, we haven't had anyone in charge of the athletic department since then who thought that way.

DeepGreen · December 16, 2009

You generally won't get what you really want unless you ask for it. Hayden Fry believed that, and that's why he lobbied for membership in the SWC for North Texas. From my observation, we haven't had anyone in charge of the athletic department since then who thought that way.

You mean "forward thinking" leadership at North Texas? :lol:

Eagle1855 · December 16, 2009

I don't see it. Often people look at our number of alumni and students and throw out that word "potential", forgetting that so many of the "potential" fans are already unreachable due to the athletic experience they got from the NT administration as students and recent grads. We'd have to prove that fan pool can/would be tapped.

I suspect we'd see a fairly significant up-tick in fan interest if were playing the A&M, OU, Nebraska, etc every year. Being a part of a "relevant" conference will pull all sorts of folk up out the woodwork.

Eagle1855 · December 16, 2009

Also, while Houston will certainly make a big push, the Big 12 centered around Dallas, and A&M and UT already have Houston recruiting on lock. I cant imagine a world where UT supports the inclusion of UH into anything they are a part of. Of course, I find it hard to believe they'd be a fan of anyone in the DFW market, either.

adman · December 16, 2009

It is my understanding that the answer is a clear yes.

Although competitively we aren't anywhere near BIG 12 material (exception being Women's soccer) and we also lack some sports, i.e. baseball - I wonder how forward thinking the BIG 12 is as far as academics and our quest to reach Tier 1 research status? If we are to believe academics and athletics are linked then I think you have to look at where we are headed in that respect and consider us.

Eagle1855 · December 16, 2009

Although competitively we aren't anywhere near BIG 12 material (exception being Women's soccer) and we also lack some sports, i.e. baseball - I wonder how forward thinking the BIG 12 is as far as academics and our quest to reach Tier 1 research status? If we are to believe academics and athletics are linked then I think you have to look at where we are headed in that respect and consider us.

And this is where UH beats us. They are a more "complete" package than we at this point in time.

aztecskin · December 16, 2009

If it were competition based: I thin an argument for dropping Baylor for TCU could be made. Definitely Iowa St. Big 12 should lobby the big ten to take them off their hands.

As far as our fortunes go, we sure wasted a good opportunity to stick it to Shmoo. They sucked for 20+ years. Sure we made a little headway but now they are breaking away with an effin proven coach.

I hate it.

Edited December 16, 2009 by aztecskin

adman · December 16, 2009

If it were competition based: I thin an argument for dropping Baylor for TCU could be made. Definitely Iowa St. Big 12 should lobby the big ten to take them off their hands.
As far as our fortunes go, we sure wasted a good opportunity to stick it to Shmoo. They sucked for 20+ years. Sure we made a little headway but now they are breaking away with an effin proven coach.
I hate it.

I wouldn't call it a breakaway just yet. And let's not forget basketball - can they even hang with us? (I'm asking because I don't know.)

Baylor will never be dropped. they are too good across the board in all other sports.

KingDL1 · December 16, 2009

Although competitively we aren't anywhere near BIG 12 material (exception being Women's soccer) and we also lack some sports, i.e. baseball - I wonder how forward thinking the BIG 12 is as far as academics and our quest to reach Tier 1 research status? If we are to believe academics and athletics are linked then I think you have to look at where we are headed in that respect and consider us.

I don't know much else but I will emphasize it was Big 12 North and the three things I have heard repeated over the last three years was, 1st recruiting this part of the South, 2nd Location location location (Dallas or DFW is the location they liked), and third was large public school. I think location is a problem for Houston. I know UNT is projecting a total of 45,000 students in the near future, I first heard this around the time Dodge came on board from some relatively connected to UNT but since then I heard it more recently from some of the Dallas Elite, with no connections to UNT. I was told there may be as many as two spots opening in the Big 12 North at some point. But who knows what set of events has to happen for this to even be an opportunity. I was told at one point maybe Colorado, Iowa State, or Missouri maybe shifting in the future. The last time I heard anything was just before this season started.

houstonmeangreen · December 16, 2009

You generally won't get what you really want unless you ask for it. Hayden Fry believed that, and that's why he lobbied for membership in the SWC for North Texas. From my observation, we haven't had anyone in charge of the athletic department since then who thought that way.

and how did that work out for us?

SilverEagle · December 16, 2009

and how did that work out for us?

Well, obviously the getting admitted part didn't work out, but from my point of view, the "we-think-we're-good-enough-so-we're-going-to-knock-on-the-door"[/i] part worked out great......as long as Fry was here. Because after he left, we went back to the "we just want to be the best little teachers school in the state" persona.

People talk ad nauseam about our "potential". We need someone again like Hayden Fry who got up and said that this was a GREAT UNIVERSITY, and that's why we would be the best choice to join the SWC...but in this case the B-12.

This discussion puts me in mind of that classic movie "The Rainmaker" starring Burt Lancaster (Starbuck) and Katherine Hepburn. Starbuck bascially tells the "plain" Lizzie Curry that every woman is pretty, but they have to believe it themselves before anyone else will.

If we don't believe we're good enough and worthly enough to be in the B-12, then no one else will.

Edited December 16, 2009 by SilverEagle