Big X To Make Push For 12th Team

[NT03]

espn

My guess would be Syracuse , Pitt or Iowa St

Edited December 12, 2009 by NT03

[NT80]

espn

My guess would be Syracuse , Pitt or Iowa St

The last time this idea was floated it involved Syracuse, Pitt, or Rutgers. Bascially, Penn State wants someone on their side of conference geography. They will also make a run again for Notre Dame, but get turned down again.

[RETSO]

Notre Dame or Pitt make the most sense...Notre Dame plays 4-5 teams in the Big Ten every year as is......Penn St would kill to have Pitt.. The problem lies in the traditional rivals possible being separated in a two division Big Ten

i.e.. OSU-Mich Indiana-Purdue Mich-MSU Minn-Wisc Northwestern-Illinois

West

Minnesota

Wisconsin

Iowa

Illinois

Northwestern

Notre Dame

East

Indiana

Purdue

Ohio St

Michigan

Michigan St

Penn St

championship game could rotate between Detroit, Chicago and Minneapolis.....

[UNTflyer]

Notre Dame or Pitt make the most sense...Notre Dame plays 4-5 teams in the Big Ten every year as is......Penn St would kill to have Pitt.. The problem lies in the traditional rivals possible being separated in a two division Big Ten

i.e.. OSU-Mich Indiana-Purdue Mich-MSU Minn-Wisc Northwestern-Illinois

West

Minnesota

Wisconsin

Iowa

Illinois

Northwestern

Notre Dame

East

Indiana

Purdue

Ohio St

Michigan

Michigan St

Penn St

championship game could rotate between Detroit, Chicago and Minneapolis.....

West

Minnesota

Wisconsin

Iowa

Illinois

Northwestern

Indiana

East

Notre Dame

Purdue

Ohio St

Michigan

Michigan St

Penn St

Gotta keep Notre Dame in the same division as Michigan, Michigan State, and Purdue.

Not that it matters. The Big 10/11 has nothing to offer Notre Dame other than a conference championship.

[RETSO]

West

Minnesota

Wisconsin

Iowa

Illinois

Northwestern

Indiana

East

Notre Dame

Purdue

Ohio St

Michigan

Michigan St

Penn St

Gotta keep Notre Dame in the same division as Michigan, Michigan State, and Purdue.

Not that it matters. The Big 10/11 has nothing to offer Notre Dame other than a conference championship.

only problem is their is NO WAY Ohio St, Michigan, Penn St and Notre Dame would be placed in the same Division........I would think Notre Dame would be happier to be the Big Fish in the West ......

man am I bored......when does Army-Navy play?

[Green Mean]

Logically I think they would probably be better off if they added Iowa State. Iowa is already there and they would immediately have the state rival and geographically it makes better sense. If that happened then Big 12 would have an opening and I am curious to see who the Big 12 would try to recruit....maybe Arkansas?

[akriesman]

Pitt - Penn State was a huge rivalry for years. My guess is that Penn St will push hard for Pitt. Notre Dame is probably a pipe dream for the Big 10.

[Guest GrayEagleOne]

It was assinine to add Penn State to the Big 10 in the first place. Geographically, they have little in common. I have serious doubts that Notre Dame wants in a league where they would be the fourth or fifth banana. They are members of the Big East and if they are forced to join a conference that would be their most likely choice. I know, geographically the Irish have little in common with the Big East teams. Maybe we could then put ND in the Big 10 in exchange for Penn State.

Edited December 13, 2009 by GrayEagleOne

[NT03]

Wouldn't ND lose $$ if they joined a conference ?

Syracuse would be the best bet & I think they want to move

[ADLER]

Follow the money.

Notre Dame makes sense for the Big Ten because of it's national appeal. Problem is, that same national appeal has kept Notre Dame from needing the Big Ten. Notre Dame makes a lot more from it's contracts with NBC than it ever could through the Big Ten Network.

Pitt - Penn State was a big rivalry for both schools when they were both independents. Unfortunately for Pitt, expansion is being driven by the dollars that can be earned by the Big Ten Network by adding a huge new market, and Pittsburgh is already a solid Penn State market.

Syracuse fits the geographic footprint of the Big Ten by being a Great Lakes vicinity school. Syracuse has an academic profile that is certainly acceptable to the Big Ten. Syracuse has a storied athletic history that involves rivalries with Big Ten schools. Unfortunately, those three facts are bonuses; Syracuse puts the Big Ten as a home conference to the enormous eastern seaboard market, and that is what the Big Ten Network wants.

Rutgers also has a strong New York following, especially in the last few years, but falls short in the other criteria.

Unless this is just another saber rattling ploy by the Big Ten to entice Notre Dame, expect Syaracuse to be the expansion target.

[VideoEagle]

Follow the money.

Notre Dame makes sense for the Big Ten because of it's national appeal. Problem is, that same national appeal has kept Notre Dame from needing the Big Ten. Notre Dame makes a lot more from it's contracts with NBC than it ever could through the Big Ten Network.

Pitt - Penn State was a big rivalry for both schools when they were both independents. Unfortunately for Pitt, expansion is being driven by the dollars that can be earned by the Big Ten Network by adding a huge new market, and Pittsburgh is already a solid Penn State market.

Syracuse fits the geographic footprint of the Big Ten by being a Great Lakes vicinity school. Syracuse has an academic profile that is certainly acceptable to the Big Ten. Syracuse has a storied athletic history that involves rivalries with Big Ten schools. Unfortunately, those three facts are bonuses; Syracuse puts the Big Ten as a home conference to the enormous eastern seaboard market, and that is what the Big Ten Network wants.

Rutgers also has a strong New York following, especially in the last few years, but falls short in the other criteria.

Unless this is just another saber rattling ploy by the Big Ten to entice Notre Dame, expect Syaracuse to be the expansion target.

I haven't look in a while, but Notre Dame's ratings on NBC had been going down steadily. When the contract is up, unless the numbers have improved, ND is not going to get what it was getting. Of course, I haven't checked in a while and the numbers could be coming back up.

[ADLER]

I haven't look in a while, but Notre Dame's ratings on NBC had been going down steadily. When the contract is up, unless the numbers have improved, ND is not going to get what it was getting. Of course, I haven't checked in a while and the numbers could be coming back up.

We all said that last year while Notre Dame was in the midst of several bad seasons. Result? Notre Dame was rewarded with a hefty increase and a contract extension which guarantees NBC the rights to nationally broadcast 7 home games and 1 neutral site every season through the 2015 season.

The Big Ten Network is a cash cow for it's conference members, but even it cannot compensate it's member institutions individually anywhere near the amount that NBC pays Notre Dame. The Big Ten schools are aware of this, especially schools like Michigan, Penn State, and Ohio State which have been more successful than Notre Dame in the last quarter century. If those schools add a twelfth member, it's going to be somebody that fits (geographically, athletically, and academically) that also adds the largest media market in the nation. That's Syracuse, and to a lesser extent Rutgers.

[Censored by Laurie]

The problem lies in the traditional rivals possible being separated in a two division Big Ten

i.e.. OSU-Mich Indiana-Purdue Mich-MSU Minn-Wisc Northwestern-Illinois

and Nebraska-Oklahoma

[aztecskin]

Follow the money.

Notre Dame makes sense for the Big Ten because of it's national appeal. Problem is, that same national appeal has kept Notre Dame from needing the Big Ten. Notre Dame makes a lot more from it's contracts with NBC than it ever could through the Big Ten Network.

Pitt - Penn State was a big rivalry for both schools when they were both independents. Unfortunately for Pitt, expansion is being driven by the dollars that can be earned by the Big Ten Network by adding a huge new market, and Pittsburgh is already a solid Penn State market.

Syracuse fits the geographic footprint of the Big Ten by being a Great Lakes vicinity school. Syracuse has an academic profile that is certainly acceptable to the Big Ten. Syracuse has a storied athletic history that involves rivalries with Big Ten schools. Unfortunately, those three facts are bonuses; Syracuse puts the Big Ten as a home conference to the enormous eastern seaboard market, and that is what the Big Ten Network wants.

Rutgers also has a strong New York following, especially in the last few years, but falls short in the other criteria.

Unless this is just another saber rattling ploy by the Big Ten to entice Notre Dame, expect Syaracuse to be the expansion target.

I wonder what the value of a Big Ten Network Plus Notre Dame would be? How much more can the BTN charge with golden domers in its stable? Surely would be a big boost to the other schools, maybe even enough to compete better with what the SEC gets for its deal with espn/abc. I don't see the benefit for ND though. Never have. They are a conference unto themselves.

Unfortunately this won't benefit us. Even if the everyone does a conference bump, CUSA wont be scooping us up anytime soon.

eh.

[NT80]

Rutgers also has a strong New York following, especially in the last few years, but falls short in the other criteria.

The last time this subject came up about a year ago Rutgers was the favorite to be picked (assuming ND declines) mostly because it brings the NYC metro area and media market = $$ and a new fan base.

[BaylorGuy314]

Gotta agree 100% with Adler. Especially about following the money.

Notre Dame won't give up independent status until its financially viable for them to do so. There is no doubt that at some point in the future, conference contracts will become large enough that even Notre Dame will break down and join one. They also have very favorably bowl tie ins- should they play themselves into one any time soon. Only kidding, I know they were eligible this year. But I do love seeing Notre Dame underperform.

Pitt and Syracuse make the most sense outside of ND and Syracuse makes the most sense of those two. Pitt simply doesn't add any market share that Penn State doesn't already own. By grabbing The Orange, the Big Ten has the two biggest fanbases on the East Coast and further increases the Big Ten footprint, which means more $$$.

[wardly]

espn

My guess would be Syracuse , Pitt or Iowa St

don't count out missouri, which would let either tcu or ark in the big 12.

[BaylorGuy314]

Missouri would be a consideration, but I think it would be the Big Ten's 3rd choice or 4th choice (behind Syracuse, Rutgers, and/or Pitt) and I don't the Big Ten will expand just for the sake of expansion unless they think they get something significant from it.

Adding Mizzou would give them a better hold on the St. Louis market, but there is a fair share of Big Ten support already there- not sure it adds a ton. At least, not as much as adding 'Cuse.

For the sake of conversation, if Mizzou was to leave, it would certainly set some interesting things in motion. TCU makes a lot of sense given the last decade of success on the gridiron, but there has to be some concern that it's taken an undefeated season to get them to 38,000 in avg attendance. (TCU averaged 30k in 2008, 30k in 2007, and 32k in 2006.) Even if you adjust that +5000 for having a more desireable conference slate, those numbers would still be the lowest in the Big 12 outside of Baylor. And the other issue is market share. Let's be honest, does TCU really add a lot of market share? You'd like to think so, but with plenty of Texas, A&M, Tech, and OU fans in the area, there are already a lot of ties to the B12. Not sure adding TCU does anything to improve the conference other than add another competitive football program.

If I were a voting member, I'd really want to go after BYU which has a good academic reputation, good athletic reputation, has a strong and devoted fanbase, draws 65,000 for football and 13,000 for basketball, and gives the conference more market share. Only issue there is whether or not BYU would make a jump without Utah.

I'd also love Arkansas, given the former ties to the SWC schools, but see no reason they'd leave the SEC. The SEC makes more money than the Big 12 and distributes it more evenly than the Big 12 (which distributes based on TV appearances and postseason appearances). Following the money, it makes no sense for Arky to join.

Edited December 15, 2009 by BaylorGuy314

[Chrisattsu]

As someone who grew up in Iowa, Iowa State makes no sense.

The Big Ten started as an academic conference and its academic reputation is as important as the athletic reputation. All of the public schools in the conference (Indiana, Ohio State, Illinois, Iowa, Michigan, MSU, Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Penn State) are considered Public Ivies. The only other schools are Northwestern and Purdue (neither of which are academic slouches). Iowa State is nowhere near that list. That being said, Rutgers and Pitt are both on this list (so fit the academic bar and provide additional media markets).

Athletically, Iowa State has struggled for recognition in the Hawkeye State. Even if they moved into the Big 10, I question if Iowa State would ever garner the recognition that the University of Iowa has throughout the state. Additionally, Western Iowa is Big Eight country. ISU has played against the Missouri, Nebraska, Kansas, and Oklahoma schools for years. It would be strange to divorce themselves from that group of schools.

[untjim1995]

If I were guessing on this, I would say that Pittsburgh would be the one school that fits the best for them. Geographically, academically, and athletically. Remember that Pittsburgh has been good in football recently and has been great in men's hoops recently. Syracuse has been great in hoops, but even Pitt has outperformed them over the last 5 years in the Big East. And, of course, with football, you get some serious plusses involving tradition, fanbase, and a great stadium to be able to visit and hold a conference championship in with Heinz Field. Not arguing that Syracuse wouldn't be a good fit, but I think Pittsburgh makes more sense to me.

Let's say it any of those Big East teams that the Big Ten adds (I don't see a Big XII team moving) to the fold. The Big East immediately adds Memphis to their conference since they have basketball team and rivals to bring them over. This creates an opening in CUSA, which I believe goes to a Southeatern school (i.e., non-Texan) like Middle Tennessee, Western Kentucky, Louisiana Tech, Florida Atlantic, or a MAC school. The eastern CUSA schools already hate that the conference is so Texas-heavy that I believe they will not entertain UNT right now, especially since SMU is now good again in football. If the SBC loses a team, I believe that they will talk to La Tech about coming over, which will not happen, so they will stick with 9 teams once USA gets up to FBS status. if the WAC loses La Tech to CUSA, which is also doubtful, I believe that they will then talk to the Montana schools about moving up.

[KingDL1]

Look for UNT to move to the Big 12 North if a space or two opens up.

[BaylorGuy314]

The Big East needs to expand in football but I think has struggled due to their existing size on the basketball side.

If Syracuse goes to the Big Ten, I see East Carolina as being a serious competitor for their Big East slot.

[wardly]

correct me if i am wrong, but the big east has 16 basketball schools, including no. dame, and only 8 football schools, which does not include no. dame. nd is not goinging anywhere football wise because of their exclusive tv contract in which they keep all the money. this leaves the big east looking for a "football only" school to balance the football piece of their conference . e. carolina is not a consideration because they bring no tv sets and few fans. my bet for a fb only school is cfu. new stadium,decent fan base, quite a few tv sets in orlando. this may change somewhat if, for instance, pitt moves to big 10, but unless nd joins big east in football[they have all their other sports there] then the big east still needs a football only school. regarding next team in cusa when an opening occurs, my money is on la tech. they have a sponsor, tulane, a baseball program, and name recognition as regards the womens bb program. in addition, every so often their fball teams beats a "name" program, something we haven't done in over 30 years.

[wardly]

correct me if i am wrong, but the big east has 16 basketball schools, including no. dame, and only 8 football schools, which does not include no. dame. nd is not goinging anywhere football wise because of their exclusive tv contract in which they keep all the money. this leaves the big east looking for a "football only" school to balance the football piece of their conference . e. carolina is not a consideration because they bring no tv sets and few fans. my bet for a fb only school is cfu. new stadium,decent fan base, quite a few tv sets in orlando. this may change somewhat if, for instance, pitt moves to big 10, but unless nd joins big east in football[they have all their other sports there] then the big east still needs a football only school. regarding next team in cusa when an opening occurs, my money is on la tech. they have a sponsor, tulane, a baseball program, and name recognition as regards the womens bb program. in addition, every so often their fball teams beats a "name" program, something we haven't done in over 30 years.

before i am jumped upon, i forgot that we have beated tt a few times since tennessee. my bad.

[LongJim]

TCU makes a lot of sense given the last decade of success on the gridiron, but there has to be some concern that it's taken an undefeated season to get them to 38,000 in avg attendance. (TCU averaged 30k in 2008, 30k in 2007, and 32k in 2006.) Even if you adjust that +5000 for having a more desireable conference slate, those numbers would still be the lowest in the Big 12 outside of Baylor. And the other issue is market share. Let's be honest, does TCU really add a lot of market share? You'd like to think so, but with plenty of Texas, A&M, Tech, and OU fans in the area, there are already a lot of ties to the B12. Not sure adding TCU does anything to improve the conference other than add another competitive football program.

TCU brings nothing to the table. Net zero. Big 12 owns the TV market in DFW already, and TCU can't sell out their 44K stadium with a top 5 team.

If I were a voting member, I'd really want to go after BYU which has a good academic reputation, good athletic reputation, has a strong and devoted fanbase, draws 65,000 for football and 13,000 for basketball, and gives the conference more market share. Only issue there is whether or not BYU would make a jump without Utah.

I'd also love Arkansas, given the former ties to the SWC schools, but see no reason they'd leave the SEC. The SEC makes more money than the Big 12 and distributes it more evenly than the Big 12 (which distributes based on TV appearances and postseason appearances). Following the money, it makes no sense for Arky to join.

Arky would definitely be taking a step down regarding $. BYU is intriguing. Here's a money breakdown regarding TV:

The SEC's new 15-year television contracts with ESPN and CBS are the richest (per year) in college sports. For some perspective, here's the reported value of the current network/national cable contracts for the nation's major conferences:

SEC

-- ESPN: 15 years, $2.25 billion

-- CBS: 15 years, $825 million

Big Ten

-- Big Ten Network: 25 years, $2.8 billion* through 2031-32

-- ABC/ESPN: 10 years, $1 billion through 2016

-- CBS: 10 years, $20 million for basketball through 2018-19

ACC

-- ABC/ESPN: Seven years, $258 million

-- Raycom Sports: 10 years, $300 million for basketball

(Both run through 2010-11.)

Big 12

-- ABC/ESPN: Eight years, $480 million through 2015-16

-- Fox Sports Net: Four years, $78 million through 2011-12

Pac-10

-- ABC/ESPN: Five years, $125 million for football

-- Fox Sports Net: Five years, $97 million for football

-- ABC/ESPN: Six years, $52.5 million for basketball

(All run through 2011-12.)

Big East

-- ABC/ESPN: Six years, $200 million through 2013

Mountain West

-- Comcast/CBS College Sports/The Mtn.: Seven years, $82 million through 2013-14

Conference USA

-- CBS College Sports: Six years, $45.8 million

-- ESPN: Six years, $22 million through 2010-11

Exact terms for the MAC, WAC and Sun Belt could not be located.

* -- projected revenue

Source: Sports Business Journal

SI--Mandel