Firing This Year Vs Next

Cr1028 · November 30, 2009

I want honest input on this. Please think logically and don't think with your anger.

Is it worth the risk of a new coach falling flat on his face next year(killing much of the excitement for the new stadium) just to get rid of Dodge this year?

I think keeping Dodge one more season is the only logical choice because you can't suffer as much damage to the stadium opening as you could in hiring a new guy this year.

If Dodge comes back only one of 2 things could happen. One, we improve and he earns a fifth year and we are excited about the stadium opening with an improved program. The other, we stink it up next year and Dodge gets fired, we open the new stadium with the excitement of a new coach and stadium.

Thoughts?

GoMeanGreen1999 · November 30, 2009

I want honest input on this. Please think logically and don't think with your anger.
Is it worth the risk of a new coach falling flat on his face next year(killing much of the excitement for the new stadium) just to get rid of Dodge this year?
I think keeping Dodge one more season is the only logical choice because you can't suffer as much damage to the stadium opening as you could in hiring a new guy this year.
If Dodge comes back only one of 2 things could happen. One, we improve and he earns a fifth year and we are excited about the stadium opening with an improved program. The other, we stink it up next year and Dodge gets fired, we open the new stadium with the excitement of a new coach and stadium.
Thoughts?

What do you think are the odds of us hiring a coach who could do worse than what we have seen in the last 3 years?

Ibleedgreen · November 30, 2009

Your post makes perfect sense to me, Cr1028.

MeanGreenTeeth · November 30, 2009

Honestly, its very stupid to fire Dodge this year unless there is a real "sexy" choice available. If we fire Dodge then we'll have yet another throw away recruiting season as well as typical attrition on an already thin team.

No recruit is going to get excited talking to the Southern Miss guy no matter how good a coach he is. It would have to be a high profile young unproven pick like Major Applewhite at this point. If the team is terrible again next year then you can fire Dodge mid-season and salvage the recruiting season with a new hire.

Cr1028 · November 30, 2009

What do you think are the odds of us hiring a coach who could do worse than what we have seen in the last 3 years?

I didn't say he would have to do worse but what kind of record would the new coach have to have next year to bring the same level of excitement as a brand new coach in a brand new stadium? I think anything less than a bowl game would not bring the same level of excitement in opening a stadium we have waited on for so long.

TheColonyEagle · November 30, 2009

I want honest input on this. Please think logically and don't think with your anger.
Is it worth the risk of a new coach falling flat on his face next year(killing much of the excitement for the new stadium) just to get rid of Dodge this year?
I think keeping Dodge one more season is the only logical choice because you can't suffer as much damage to the stadium opening as you could in hiring a new guy this year.
If Dodge comes back only one of 2 things could happen. One, we improve and he earns a fifth year and we are excited about the stadium opening with an improved program. The other, we stink it up next year and Dodge gets fired, we open the new stadium with the excitement of a new coach and stadium.
Thoughts?

BINGO

THOR · November 30, 2009

I want honest input on this. Please think logically and don't think with your anger.
Is it worth the risk of a new coach falling flat on his face next year(killing much of the excitement for the new stadium) just to get rid of Dodge this year?
I think keeping Dodge one more season is the only logical choice because you can't suffer as much damage to the stadium opening as you could in hiring a new guy this year.
If Dodge comes back only one of 2 things could happen. One, we improve and he earns a fifth year and we are excited about the stadium opening with an improved program. The other, we stink it up next year and Dodge gets fired, we open the new stadium with the excitement of a new coach and stadium.
Thoughts?

makes sense to bring him back....i'm not opposed to it....but i wasn't opposed to using thompson in the game yesterday to try and win it.

UNT90 · November 30, 2009

Except that you have a sales staff trying to sell Club Level seats for the new stadium THIS YEAR. Except for the fact that these sales people are asking fans and donors to make a $25,000 commitment over 5 years THIS YEAR. Except that the athletic department has planned on these sales to help pay for the new stadium. Except for the fact that many in the fan base will see another year of Dodge as a lack of commitment to winning and won't buy into the new stadium THIS YEAR OR NEXT YEAR.

How hard do you think it has been on the sales staff to generate interest with a 5-31 record over the last 3 years?

Even if RV wanted to bring Dodge back, I think this issue makes it impossible.

VideoEagle · November 30, 2009

Except that you have a sales staff trying to sell Club Level seats for the new stadium THIS YEAR. Except for the fact that these sales people are asking fans and donors to make a $25,000 commitment over 5 years THIS YEAR. Except that the athletic department has planned on these sales to help pay for the new stadium. Except for the fact that many in the fan base will see another year of Dodge as a lack of commitment to winning and won't buy into the new stadium THIS YEAR OR NEXT YEAR.
How hard do you think it has been on the sales staff to generate interest with a 5-31 record over the last 3 years?
Even if RV wanted to bring Dodge back, I think this issue makes it impossible.

No, the folks are have both the will and the resources to buy box seats to NT games are not going to be deterred by keeping Dodge around. They are either serious fans of the program or want the promotional value of giving their customers access to the box seats. In either case, the coach is completely secondary to the decision.

Smitty · November 30, 2009

Honestly, its very stupid to fire Dodge this year unless there is a real "sexy" choice available. If we fire Dodge then we'll have yet another throw away recruiting season as well as typical attrition on an already thin team.
No recruit is going to get excited talking to the Southern Miss guy no matter how good a coach he is. It would have to be a high profile young unproven pick like Major Applewhite at this point. If the team is terrible again next year then you can fire Dodge mid-season and salvage the recruiting season with a new hire.

True, but how excited is a recruit going to be to talk to a coach with a 5-31 record who is embarking on what amounts to an ultimatum season? If Dodge faces a win-or-else season next year, and considering his record in his first three years, isn't that going to be a weapon for other teams to use against UNT in recruiting?

I just don't think an ultimatum season is a good idea.

UNT90 · November 30, 2009

No, the folks are have both the will and the resources to buy box seats to NT games are not going to be deterred by keeping Dodge around. They are either serious fans of the program or want the promotional value of giving their customers access to the box seats. In either case, the coach is completely secondary to the decision.

The coach may be secondary, but losing isn't. If you truely believe that these are the only type of fans this program hopes to attract with the new stadium, well, you deserve 5-31.

MeanGreenTeeth · November 30, 2009

Well, I wouldn't announce it was an ultimatum season of course. Though I suppose it would be obvious. I guess it depends how confident you are in Dodge's ability to sell.

Edited November 30, 2009 by MeanGreenTeeth

NT03 · November 30, 2009

I want honest input on this. Please think logically and don't think with your anger.
Is it worth the risk of a new coach falling flat on his face next year(killing much of the excitement for the new stadium) just to get rid of Dodge this year?
I think keeping Dodge one more season is the only logical choice because you can't suffer as much damage to the stadium opening as you could in hiring a new guy this year.
If Dodge comes back only one of 2 things could happen. One, we improve and he earns a fifth year and we are excited about the stadium opening with an improved program. The other, we stink it up next year and Dodge gets fired, we open the new stadium with the excitement of a new coach and stadium.
Thoughts?

Here is my problem. It's pretty much Bowl bound or bust for TD to be retained for next season if he stays ?

Until we somehow upset K-State or Clemson our season isn't going to get off on the right foot. We start off with a body bag game and that could just set the tone for the whole season. I mean look how well we played in our first 2 games this year until we played at Bama. It went all down hill from there. They got knocked down and never got up again. What will be different next year ?

The players will know everything is riding on next season. If things again start to spiral down early who's to say the underclassmen will even care ? They have listened to TD speak and what he thinks is going to happen , but it's just a matter of time before that belief is turned to B.S. How can they trust what the man says if they see that their coach has only won 15% of his games ?

Would it be fair to the next coach who replaces Dodge for his 1st recruiting class ? Are we going to fire TD midway thru the season ? Even if we don't , we will all know his fate sometime during midseason. That will not do well for recruiting. Dodge won't be able to recruit well if everyone knows he's not going to be here and how well will his recruiting be if his #1 concern in is his current job is to win games now and it's in panic mode.

So Dodge is fired at the end of the season ? The new HC gets a late start just like TD did and we all see how well that went last time around. TD has more ties than anyone we could of ever asked for and he still was only able to hold on to 50% of his class. Why cripple a new coach who needs to start winning and winning now as we head into a new era in MEAN GREEN FOOTBALL

I don't care who the coach is , we still don't have the talent to beat Troy. So there goes title hopes. I don't see us beating Clemson , K-St. Rice is winnable and Army is a toss up . You have to wonder how well the team does on a long road trip to NY. We had more talent this year and still lost , is Dodge going to get smarter next year as a coach and be the difference ? Best case 2 - 2 , but I wouldn't be surprised with 1 - 3.

So where do we find these other wins at ? WKU , ok check ... maybe. FIU @ home , ok check.. maybe. ARK St/UL @ home... a toss up. Best case 2 - 2

Monroe on the road ? MTSU on the road ? Troy..please I can't see any 0 - 3

FAU has owned us , why should that change ? That would be like WKU expecting a win vs us next year. 0 - 1

So no matter who we have recruiting wise coming in , best case 4 -7. Yes Staford and Cole are going to be great , but I promise you every team in the belt has their own 4 star recruit that they too are drooling over

Ill support him if he's here , but I can't for the life of me expect more wins.

Edited November 30, 2009 by NT03

Cr1028 · November 30, 2009

The coach may be secondary, but losing isn't. If you truely believe that these are the only type of fans this program hopes to attract with the new stadium, well, you deserve 5-31.

I'm telling you hear and now if you hire a new head coach for 2010 and he doesn't go at least get to a bowl game, you will not sell out that shiny new stadium. If you start with a brand new head coach with a clean slate, I bet you willl sell out that first home game. North Texas has a small diehard base, the excitement is what brings the casual fan out of the woodwork which is what Dodge brought when he first got here. Once that new coach smell wears off, you're screwed.

VideoEagle · November 30, 2009

The coach may be secondary, but losing isn't. If you truely believe that these are the only type of fans this program hopes to attract with the new stadium, well, you deserve 5-31.

I never wrote those are the only fans the program hoped to bring. Don't allow your hatred and anger to interfere with your reading skills.

The fans who with both the will and resources to commit $5000/yr for five years are different from the fans who by just buy two or four season tickets. We will almost certainly lose some of those, although to be honest the fans who sit around me in section E will likely return next year if we convinced Firefighting Rick to be the next coach. The fans who are the customer base for box seats will only be affected in the tiniest of fashions, if at all.

I might have hit on something with Rick coaching. It would certainly make a news splash!

Cr1028 · November 30, 2009

Wow. I had no idea I get this sort of response. I guess we're like a guy with a mullet driving and IROC Z28. We see ourselves one way while the rest of the world sees us for what we really are.

Cr1028 · November 30, 2009

I never wrote those are the only fans the program hoped to bring. Don't allow your hatred and anger to interfere with your reading skills.
The fans who with both the will and resources to commit $5000/yr for five years are different from the fans who by just buy two or four season tickets. We will almost certainly lose some of those, although to be honest the fans who sit around me in section E will likely return next year if we convinced Firefighting Rick to be the next coach. The fans who are the customer base for box seats will only be affected in the tiniest of fashions, if at all.
I might have hit on something with Rick coaching. It would certainly make a news splash!

Exactly, that is what diehard fans do! Not only that, who wants to give up their priority points the last season before the new stadium opens? I sure as heck don't.

eulessismore · November 30, 2009

Well, I wouldn't announce it was an ultimatum season of course. Though I suppose it would be obvious. I guess it depends how confident you are in Dodge's ability to sell.

I have never had any doubt in Dodge's ability to sell, and haven't had for the first two seasons, and was certainly well on board until about the end of the first quarter of this year's homecoming game, when MTSU went up on us something like 28-0.

My understanding about selling, marketing, or whatever you want to call it, is that no matter how good a product is, you have to do a good job marketing it, or it could just be the next betamax vs. VHS, a technical success that flopped in the marketplace.

My understanding of the other side of this is that if you don't have a good product, no amount of marketing will make any difference.

It's hard for me to say, after following this football program for the last 3 years (and Dodge did bring me back out to watch the games, mostly based on his high school record, and all the hype accompanying his hire) that this is a good product, or that we're just about to turn a corner. If I were trying to talk someone other than my wife (who loves me and supports me in my passions, as I do in hers) into attending a North Texas football game, what could I say that was both honest and persuasive? Even my wife, who knows little about football, other than watching North Texas games, can understand interceptions, blocked punts, fumbles, blocked field goal attempts, and failure to get points when near the goal line, or failure to win games when we're ahead in the fourth quarter. Any suggestions as to how to package that up for marketing without making it a longer speech than most people who aren't sold on North Texas Football would be willing to hear? After all, just bringing out the hardcore fans isn't going to fill a new stadium for 5 or 6 home games every year.

KingDL1 · November 30, 2009

I want honest input on this. Please think logically and don't think with your anger.
Is it worth the risk of a new coach falling flat on his face next year(killing much of the excitement for the new stadium) just to get rid of Dodge this year?
I think keeping Dodge one more season is the only logical choice because you can't suffer as much damage to the stadium opening as you could in hiring a new guy this year.
If Dodge comes back only one of 2 things could happen. One, we improve and he earns a fifth year and we are excited about the stadium opening with an improved program. The other, we stink it up next year and Dodge gets fired, we open the new stadium with the excitement of a new coach and stadium.
Thoughts?

I am pretty neutral on whether Dodge stays or not, I think Dodge will be a great coach some day I just don't know when that will be.

Your premise is faulty though, there is no reason to think we start over from scratch with a new coach, we do have real talent now and I believe we are a few pieces shy of a complete bowl bound team. I doubt anyone here knows in their heart if Dodge would or could do what it takes to be successful next season, at best it is a crap shoot.

I think if you got the right coach he would have a better chance for success then Dodge, I like Dodge but his progress has not proven or shown that next year is his breakout year. If you are doing risk assessment I think you have a much lower risk with a proven coach. There is no true logic in thinking Dodge is a better choice, now if we have no money, and don't have a choice it is a different story but it is not what I have been hearing.

Cr1028 · November 30, 2009

I am pretty neutral on whether Dodge stays or not, I think Dodge will be a great coach some day I just don't know when that will be.
Your premise is faulty though, there is no reason to think we start over from scratch with a new coach, we do have real talent now and I believe we are a few pieces shy of a complete bowl bound team. I doubt anyone here knows in their heart if Dodge would or could do what it takes to be successful next season, at best it is a crap shoot.
I think if you got the right coach he would have a better chance for success then Dodge, I like Dodge but his progress has not proven or shown that next year is his breakout year. If you are doing risk assessment I think you have a much lower risk with a proven coach. There is no true logic in thinking Dodge is a better choice, now if we have no money, and don't have a choice it is a different story but it is not what I have been hearing.

June Jones had the same record in his first season as Phil Bennett did the year before, June Jones is a PROVEN head coach who went 1-11 last year. They will probably go bowling this year but that doesn't mean that a new head coach can automatically improve the record of his predecessor in his first year. Don't give me the Auburn crap, Tuberville was pressured to get away from the way he wins football games and had to pick up Tony Franklin, that program when to hell in a handbasket last season so it wasn't difficult to improve upon by simply going back Tuberville's original line of thinking.

KingDL1 · November 30, 2009

June Jones had the same record in his first season as Phil Bennett did the year before, June Jones is a PROVEN head coach who went 1-11 last year. They will probably go bowling this year but that doesn't mean that a new head coach can automatically improve the record of his predecessor in his first year. Don't give me the Auburn crap, Tuberville was pressured to get away from the way he wins football games and had to pick up Tony Franklin, that program when to hell in a handbasket last season so it wasn't difficult to improve upon by simply going back Tuberville's original line of thinking.

I would say that our team is in a much better situation talent wise then where SMU was when Jones took them over. Hell I would like nothing more then to see Dodge be successful, but at what cost to UNT is my problem.

UNT90 · November 30, 2009

I never wrote those are the only fans the program hoped to bring. Don't allow your hatred and anger to interfere with your reading skills.
The fans who with both the will and resources to commit $5000/yr for five years are different from the fans who by just buy two or four season tickets. We will almost certainly lose some of those, although to be honest the fans who sit around me in section E will likely return next year if we convinced Firefighting Rick to be the next coach. The fans who are the customer base for box seats will only be affected in the tiniest of fashions, if at all.
I might have hit on something with Rick coaching. It would certainly make a news splash!

Man, you know me so well...Oh, wait, I've never met you...

I really don't have any hatred for anyone. I wish Dodge the best at his next stop. I think it is fairly clear that his days here are numbered. Like it or not, D1A footballl is about wins and losses, even at little old UNT.

What I read from you is that you apparently think the new stadium doesn't change anything. I don't think the athletic department agrees with you.

eulessismore · November 30, 2009

June Jones had the same record in his first season as Phil Bennett did the year before, June Jones is a PROVEN head coach who went 1-11 last year. They will probably go bowling this year but that doesn't mean that a new head coach can automatically improve the record of his predecessor in his first year. Don't give me the Auburn crap, Tuberville was pressured to get away from the way he wins football games and had to pick up Tony Franklin, that program when to hell in a handbasket last season so it wasn't difficult to improve upon by simply going back Tuberville's original line of thinking.

Wow, your original post, asking us to use logic and avoid anger was interesting in how you used good grammar and appealed to reason. Now it's "Don't give me the Auburn crap", followed by giving us your take on the Auburn situation from last year, in a final, poorly constructed sentence. Yes, communication skills matter. I'll give you credit for starting out seeming to be thoughtful rather than angry. I didn't have my mind made up before you started this thread; now you've convinced me it's time to let Dodge go; it's generating too much anger.

UNT90 · November 30, 2009

Exactly, that is what diehard fans do! Not only that, who wants to give up their priority points the last season before the new stadium opens? I sure as heck don't.

Laughable.

If you call the ticket office tomorrow and tell them you want to commit to the club level, I promise you will not have to be put on a list.

Funny stuff, though.

rcade · November 30, 2009

Is it worth the risk of a new coach falling flat on his face next year(killing much of the excitement for the new stadium) just to get rid of Dodge this year?

If a coach is capable of killing excitement for the new stadium, wouldn't it already be dead? I don't think changing coaches now would be appreciably different than changing two years from now.

There are arguments for keeping Dodge, but I don't think that's a good one.