Don't Forget About Dennis Franchione

UNT90 · November 29, 2009

Greek I have to strongly disagree, Faker Fran has a horrible reputation in Texas these days. I find him at best questionable and a PR nightmare.

I also disagree on Fran coming here. We should be looking for someone like this:

http://sfajacks.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/m...arper_jc00.html

Loads of college experience and motivated to coach on the next level. Plus, he has made players out of guys the big schools didn't want. Like it or not, that is our recruiting lot in life.

UNT90 · November 29, 2009

He was never the same coach without Gary Patterson, sort of like Parcells without Bellichik.

Yep. When the 2 seperated, Patterson continued to ascend, while Fran started a long, downward spiral.

I'm not a big believer in coincidences.

greenjoe · November 29, 2009

If we are hiring a new head coach, hire Fran. And then hope he is so successful that he gets hired away by a bigger program. And that he leaves a "patterson" here.

foutsrouts · November 29, 2009

If we are hiring a new head coach, hire Fran. And then hope he is so successful that he gets hired away by a bigger program. And that he leaves a "patterson" here.

I'd hate for us to get another "nepotismistic" situation started here at North Texas, but maybe that "Patterson" that he would leave behind would be named Brad Franchione? He coaches in the JC National Championship game again next weekend. Son could turn out to be more valuable than the father.

Edited November 29, 2009 by foutsrouts

CMJ · November 29, 2009

Yep. When the 2 seperated, Patterson continued to ascend, while Fran started a long, downward spiral.
I'm not a big believer in coincidences.

I'm not sure you could say that. When he was at A&M he was never really successful - but he had a good 2 years in Alabama(even won 10 games one year) cleaning up the debacle from the previous coach.

NT91 · November 29, 2009

Keep Todd D. in 2010 and when they win 6 + games keep him for two more years.

CaribbeanGreen · November 29, 2009

For the sake of conversation, Patterson only joined Fran's staff at UNM in 1996. Prior to that, Fran was 53-6 at Pittsburg State, 13-9 at SW Texas, and 18-27 at UNM. With Patterson in the fold at UNM, Fran posted a 15-9 record his last two seasons.

While admittedly this tells just a part of the whole story, in Fran's career as a FBS HC (eliminating Pitt St and SWT), he is 67-63 without Gary Patterson as his DC. With Patterson, he is 40-19.

One should note, however, that for a large part of it, "With Patterson" should also read "With LaDainian Tomlinson".... which, by the way, I don't penalize Fran for "winning just because he had LT"... that's hogwash to me, and something similar could be said of almost any coach. Fran found LT and got him out of Waco to TCU.

Overall, Fran is 187-101-2 as a head football coach. 86 games over .500. He's 107-81 in FBS, 26 games over .500.

And in addition, Jeff Bower is 119-83-1 as a head football coach, all in FBS. 36 games over .500.

For the record, Hayden Fry's career coaching record 232-178-10. 54 games over .500. If we hire EITHER of these coaches, they would walk onto campus as the undisputed second best coach in the history of UNT, with stats not unlike (or better) than Hayden Fry's at the same point in his career.... this in a VERY different and challenging college football environment, and mostly at mid-majors. We can nitpick all we want, but in the Sun Belt, an established hire puts us immediately rocketing up the pecking order. Likewise, I would not expect any "4 year building process" with Fran or Bower. I'd expect significant improvement in year one and to be competing for a bowl game in year two, opening the stadium. This is the most important hire in the history of NT football. We're at a crossroads like never before, with many millions at stake. We can't afford a project or a "potential" hire. Get skins in here. On this level. We have the budget, we have the candidates.

Edited November 29, 2009 by CaribbeanGreen

TheTastyGreek · November 29, 2009

I'm not sure you could say that. When he was at A&M he was never really successful - but he had a good 2 years in Alabama(even won 10 games one year) cleaning up the debacle from the previous coach.

Yep. Turning a 3 win Alabama squad into a winner in his first year, 10 wins in the SEC in just his second season... The reason they're still upset with him out there isn't because he wasn't successful... It's because he didn't stick around and suffer through sanctions when Texas A&M was willing to pay him more.

And I'll go out on a limb and say that trying to get a program going in the Big 12 South might just be one of the toughest assignments in college football. The guy beat Texas in both his last two years there, and I don't think he ever lost to a Texas team that was ranked below 5th.

eulessismore · November 29, 2009

Yep. Turning a 3 win Alabama squad into a winner in his first year, 10 wins in the SEC in just his second season... The reason they're still upset with him out there isn't because he wasn't successful... It's because he didn't stick around and suffer through sanctions when Texas A&M was willing to pay him more.
And I'll go out on a limb and say that trying to get a program going in the Big 12 South might just be one of the toughest assignments in college football. The guy beat Texas in both his last two years there, and I don't think he ever lost to a Texas team that was ranked below 5th.

Well, we do have Texas on the schedule, for 2014(?). I guess that could give him a target.

Green Dozer · November 29, 2009

For the sake of conversation, Patterson only joined Fran's staff at UNM in 1996. Prior to that, Fran was 53-6 at Pittsburg State, 13-9 at SW Texas, and 18-27 at UNM. With Patterson in the fold at UNM, Fran posted a 15-9 record his last two seasons.
While admittedly this tells just a part of the whole story, in Fran's career as a FBS HC (eliminating Pitt St and SWT), he is 67-63 without Gary Patterson as his DC. With Patterson, he is 40-19.
One should note, however, that for a large part of it, "With Patterson" should also read "With LaDainian Tomlinson".... which, by the way, I don't penalize Fran for "winning just because he had LT"... that's hogwash to me, and something similar could be said of almost any coach. Fran found LT and got him out of Waco to TCU.
Overall, Fran is 187-101-2 as a head football coach. 86 games over .500. He's 107-81 in FBS, 26 games over .500.
And in addition, Jeff Bower is 119-83-1 as a head football coach, all in FBS. 36 games over .500.
For the record, Hayden Fry's career coaching record 232-178-10. 54 games over .500. If we hire EITHER of these coaches, they would walk onto campus as the undisputed second best coach in the history of UNT, with stats not unlike (or better) than Hayden Fry's at the same point in his career.... this in a VERY different and challenging college football environment, and mostly at mid-majors. We can nitpick all we want, but in the Sun Belt, an established hire puts us immediately rocketing up the pecking order. Likewise, I would not expect any "4 year building process" with Fran or Bower. I'd expect significant improvement in year one and to be competing for a bowl game in year two, opening the stadium. This is the most important hire in the history of NT football. We're at a crossroads like never before, with many millions at stake. We can't afford a project or a "potential" hire. Get skins in here. On this level. We have the budget, we have the candidates.

Look, Bower had a great run at Southern, and the hard core college football fan is going to know who he is. I would prefer Fran because he has recruited Texas before, so there would not be the need to establish himself here in with state's coaches. Not saying that Bower could not do it, but he was real good at getting players in SEC country, not the Big 12 south.

UNT90 · November 29, 2009

Didn't we already go down the "make a splash" and "he can recruit Texas" road? How about hiring a solid, up and coming coach who can get the job done for a change.

CaribbeanGreen · November 29, 2009

Also, for conversation, Dennis Franchione has had SIXTEEN seasons as a head coach in which his team won 7 or more ballgames. He's had FOUR in which his team has lost 7 or more. This out of 24 seasons as a head coach.

Jeff Bower has had TWELVE seasons as a head coach in which his team won 7 or more ballgames. He's had TWO in which his team lost 7 or more - the last in 1993, SIXTEEN YEARS AGO. This out of 17 seasons as a head coach.

Meanwhile in the past FIFTY YEARS, the University of North Texas (DI) has had THIRTEEN seasons with 7 or more wins. UNT has had SEVENTEEN in which they've lost 7 or more.

Either of these coaches would be a staggering statistical upgrade the moment they set foot in Denton. Just some sobering perspective.

CaribbeanGreen · November 29, 2009

Didn't we already go down the "make a splash" and "he can recruit Texas" road? How about hiring a solid, up and coming coach who can get the job done for a change.

I just don't think that at this crossroads, with this budget, we can afford to take a risk on the "up and comer". We need a resume of success, skins on the wall, and a proven track record at this level. We can finally afford it.. we can't afford NOT to do it.

And Dozer, I agree - I prefer Fran to Bower myself. I'm just including Bower because he has beyond solid numbers over many years and we all know the RV/USM connection makes him a huge player in this.

Green Dozer · November 29, 2009

Didn't we already go down the "make a splash" and "he can recruit Texas" road? How about hiring a solid, up and coming coach who can get the job done for a change.

Solid would be most important to me.

CaribbeanGreen · November 29, 2009

Solid would be most important to me.

16 out of 24 seasons w/ at least 7 wins.

12 out of 17 seasons w/ at least 7 wins.

That sounds awfully solid to me.

Mind you, these aren't even the only two guys out there - just two top of mind guys who are available and who we can afford. We have no excuse not to bring in a ready, proven, established FBS success who can IMMEDIATELY turn this thing around headed into the new stadium many of us thought we'd never see. The opportunity laid out in front of NT is STAGGERING at this very moment. This is it. The time is now, indeed.

Edited November 29, 2009 by CaribbeanGreen

Green Dozer · November 29, 2009

I just don't think that at this crossroads, with this budget, we can afford to take a risk on the "up and comer". We need a resume of success, skins on the wall, and a proven track record at this level. We can finally afford it.. we can't afford NOT to do it.
And Dozer, I agree - I prefer Fran to Bower myself. I'm just including Bower because he has beyond solid numbers over many years and we all know the RV/USM connection makes him a huge player in this.

CG,

RV and Dickey had connections from LSU......but they did not get along. We won 4 conference championships. FWIW.

CaribbeanGreen · November 30, 2009

CG,
RV and Dickey had connections from LSU......but they did not get along. We won 4 conference championships. FWIW.

Oh, I agree - Dickey wasn't a RV hire, despite the small LSU connection... RV has shown in the past a tendency to favor folks he has connections with (see: USM), and with Bower available, it's natural to at least consider him a prime candidate. Not saying RV is into blatant cronyism, either... I don't believe he's going to hire someone just because they're from USM if he doesn't also feel they're best for the job.

Greendylan · November 30, 2009

16 out of 24 seasons w/ at least 7 wins.
12 out of 17 seasons w/ at least 7 wins.
That sounds awfully solid to me.
Mind you, these aren't even the only two guys out there - just two top of mind guys who are available and who we can afford. We have no excuse not to bring in a ready, proven, established FBS success who can IMMEDIATELY turn this thing around headed into the new stadium many of us thought we'd never see. The opportunity laid out in front of NT is STAGGERING at this very moment. This is it. The time is now, indeed.

Just out of curiosity, why do a lot of you believe we could afford either of these two? Don't get me wrong, I certainly hope you're right, and I would consider either of them to be amazing opportunities. I just don't see how we will now be able to afford several times the amount we were ever able to pay a coach in the past--all while collecting stadium funds.

eulessismore · November 30, 2009

Just out of curiosity, why do a lot of you believe we could afford either of these two? Don't get me wrong, I certainly hope you're right, and I would consider either of them to be amazing opportunities. I just don't see how we will now be able to afford several times the amount we were ever able to pay a coach in the past--all while collecting stadium funds.

That is all still mysterious to me, unless someone wants to serve as a volunteer coach while collecting their contract settlements. But hey, I'm from a poor family; we could never afford a father.

TheTastyGreek · November 30, 2009

Just out of curiosity, why do a lot of you believe we could afford either of these two? Don't get me wrong, I certainly hope you're right, and I would consider either of them to be amazing opportunities. I just don't see how we will now be able to afford several times the amount we were ever able to pay a coach in the past--all while collecting stadium funds.

If we hire Fran, we can pay him $1 in 2010.

His buyout with A&M pays him a million dollars. Anything we give him in 2010 reduces the buyout total by an equal amount. Taking money from us in 2010 earns him no additional money.

We can use 2010 to cover our buyout liabilities with Dodge and get out from under that burden in a year rather than spreading it out over 2 or 3 like we did with Dickey, because we won't be paying two salaries at once.

After that, we should be able to afford $400k per year in 2011 and beyond. That's right in line with what he's chasing at UNLV, and what he probably would have made at San Diego State if they hadn't decided to spend so much on Brady Hoke instead.

Greendylan · November 30, 2009

If we hire Fran, we can pay him $1 in 2010.
His buyout with A&M pays him a million dollars. Anything we give him in 2010 reduces the buyout total by an equal amount. Taking money from us in 2010 earns him no additional money.
We can use 2010 to cover our buyout liabilities with Dodge and get out from under that burden in a year rather than spreading it out over 2 or 3 like we did with Dickey, because we won't be paying two salaries at once.
After that, we should be able to afford $400k per year in 2011 and beyond. That's right in line with what he's chasing at UNLV, and what he probably would have made at San Diego State if they hadn't decided to spend so much on Brady Hoke instead.

Ok, that makes sense. So, in a lot of ways he would be far more affordable than Bower?

TheTastyGreek · November 30, 2009

Ok, that makes sense. So, in a lot of ways he would be far more affordable than Bower?

Yes. And it gets even better if he wins fast and "screws us over" by leaving for a better job.

If he does another 2 year winning record turnaround (as he's done everywhere else he's ever been) and leaves us for a BCS job, we'll be in our new stadium with 2 of his recruiting classes, for an average cost of just over $200k per year.

Program rebuilt, stadium in place, price tag lower than Dodge.

Edited November 30, 2009 by TheTastyGreek

CaribbeanGreen · November 30, 2009

That.

Neither of these guys (amazingly) are out of our price range at the moment, and Fran has been trying for jobs that pay equal or less than what we can pay. No reason to believe Bower wouldn't take the same - but yeah, what TTG said - Fran makes AMAZING fiscal sense.