Impact On Recruiting ?

MeanGreen61 · November 23, 2009

1. If TD remains - Will his recruiting be damaged by lack of success on the field ?

2. If TD goes - Will this recruit class be basically a wash ?

3. Will the new stadium help to overcome our lack of success on the field and the will he or won't he coaching situation ?

Edited November 23, 2009 by MeanGreen61

AnotherEagleFan · November 24, 2009

1. If TD remains - Will his recruiting be damaged by lack of success on the field ?
2. If TD goes - Will this recruit class be basically a wash ?
3. Will the new stadium help to overcome our lack of success on the field and the will he or won't he coaching situation ?

1. No!

2. It depends. RV obviously wanted to change the type of football being played at UNT. The rebuilding pains could have been limited had he hired a HC who was "pro type" offense oriented VS running the spread. So if there is a change you would think that RV would find a HC who wanted to keep the spread. So the rebuild to the new Coach's system should translate.

3. Not at first! The stadium is for the fans. The more fans the more money the more money the more..... the better the recruits. Players want to play and win. They will go to a school with an inferior stadium to play and win. Coaches sell a bill of goods to recruits and the stadium is pretty far down the list. High on the list is playing big time programs. I wish the UNT fans would embrace the scheduling of the big AQ BCS teams rather then calling them body bag games.

CMJ · November 24, 2009

I think many of us used to embrace those games. But there's only so many times you can take getting kicked in the nuts.

AnotherEagleFan · November 24, 2009

I think many of us used to embrace those games. But there's only so many times you can take getting kicked in the nuts.

then you are playing in the wrong division.

TIgreen01 · November 24, 2009

1. No!
2. It depends. RV obviously wanted to change the type of football being played at UNT. The rebuilding pains could have been limited had he hired a HC who was "pro type" offense oriented VS running the spread. So if there is a change you would think that RV would find a HC who wanted to keep the spread. So the rebuild to the new Coach's system should translate.
3. Not at first! The stadium is for the fans. The more fans the more money the more money the more..... the better the recruits. Players want to play and win. They will go to a school with an inferior stadium to play and win. Coaches sell a bill of goods to recruits and the stadium is pretty far down the list. High on the list is playing big time programs. I wish the UNT fans would embrace the scheduling of the big AQ BCS teams rather then calling them body bag games.

That was ingrained in us by DD....and then the complete whitewashing we've been taking in those games with Dodge as HC.

It was not always this way and doesn't have to be....we just need to actually have a little success in those games and opinions will change.

CMJ · November 24, 2009

then you are playing in the wrong division.

Or focus on getting winnable games and building your program that way? Boise State didn't schedule anyone worth anything for years(Georgia in like...2005 was the first time right?) - but got noticed because they won their league for like 5-6 seasons straight and kicked the hell out of 1-AA schools.

Edited November 24, 2009 by CMJ

AnotherEagleFan · November 24, 2009

Or focus on getting winnable games and building your program that way? Boise State didn't schedule anyone worth anything for years(Georgia in like...2005 was the first time right?) - but got noticed because they won their league for like 5-6 seasons straight and kicked the hell out of 1-AA schools.

Do you want to check that yourself or would you like me to correct you?

shaft · November 24, 2009

If Dodge stays why would any recruit want to play for him.

He can't win. He's the worst coach in school history. And he won't be coach when the new stadium opens.

CMJ · November 24, 2009

Do you want to check that yourself or would you like me to correct you?

I perused acouple years starting from the year after we were in their conference(and owned a winning record over them in the Big West mind you). They did go on the road a few times, but I only counted 1 game against Top 25 OOC opponents in the 3 years between the Big West and playing Georgia.

The other Power League schools they faced were unranked, and a few were in really bad spells(they got Oregon State a few times when the Beavers were very down for example, and still lost once)

Edited November 24, 2009 by CMJ

risinggreen · November 24, 2009

Do you want to check that yourself or would you like me to correct you?

Here it is if anyone is interested. Forgot we beat them two years in a row in '98/'99. Congrats to us! Unfortunately, they got us back pretty good in 2000.

http://www.jhowell.net/cf/scores/BoiseState.htm

The Fake Lonnie Finch · November 24, 2009

1. If TD remains - Will his recruiting be damaged by lack of success on the field ?

No. Others here may disagree. However, the recruiting hasn't been all that different than what we had under Dickey - a bunch of two-star or no-star recruits with a three-star mixed in here and there. It'll be the same if he stays. SMU, TCU, and everyone regionally is already getting close to their limit as well. So, we're getting the leftovers again anyway.

2. If TD goes - Will this recruit class be basically a wash ?

Depend on who the new hire is. If it's a splash hire like a former head coach (John L. Smith, Dennis Franchione, Walt Harris, Glen Mason, Jeff Bower, Steve Logan, etc.), we'll likely get one or two more three-star recruits. We'd also have our recruiting territory expanded nationwide with any of those guys.

If it's an unheralded assistant from somewhere or an FCS or Division II guy, the recruiting will likely be the same, which is fine. We're doing no better or worse than most teams in the Belt right now. It's been that way under both Dickey and Dodge.

3. Will the new stadium help to overcome our lack of success on the field and the will he or won't he coaching situation ?

It didn't necessarily help SMU. Central Florida has had mixed results. The thing is, you still have to have a good coaching staff to compete...even if you are just playing in the Safeway parking lot.

Edited November 24, 2009 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

NT03 · November 24, 2009

I think we are in a bad spot either way you look at it. What more can TD sell that he has not already sold to prior recruits ? Can he honestly tell them that things at UNT are starting to turn around ?

Is a new stadium really the key ? Doesn't seem to bother TCU and 79 year old Amon Carter

We only have 4 recruits so far w/ 1 3 star recruit while other whom we compete with already have several solid commits lined up. Until I see the name of this phantom 5th verbal , I we can't depend on him right now.

ARK St 7 commits & 2 3star players

Baylor 13 commits & 11 3+ star players

FIU 11 commits & 6 3 star players

LaTech 8 commits & 1 3 star player

Houston 25 commits & 15 3+star players

Rice 8 commits & 4 3 star players

SMU 19 commits & 9 3 star players

TCU 9 commits & 7 3 star players

UTEP 13 commits & 4 3 star players

TX Tech 21 commits & 21 3+star players

UTSA 8 commits & 1 3star player

Tulane 19 commits & 3 3star players

Laugh if you want , but we are now battling the likes of UTSA & Lamar on kids whom in the past may have slip thru the cracks

To go along with the usual from Texas,a&m,OU & OSU. There are still some players out there whom are uncommitted , but I don't know if we are on their list or not. We have to fill out the rest of the signing class , but I'm just not sure where the talent is going to come from , Louisiana ? Miss JUCOs ?

If we stick w/ Dodge I can't see this being his best class , but if we bring in someone else he's already way behind and we would also risk losing our top recruit , Javia Hall.It would have to be a big hire in order to compensate the lack of time he would have

Edited November 24, 2009 by NT03

LoveMG · November 24, 2009

1. If TD remains - Will his recruiting be damaged by lack of success on the field ?
2. If TD goes - Will this recruit class be basically a wash ?
3. Will the new stadium help to overcome our lack of success on the field and the will he or won't he coaching situation ?

1. if td remains damage has already been done by announcement he is not sure of his status, plus only 2 years remain on contract and i do not see an extension

2. if td goes, new coach will be experienced college coach. new hype draws as well if not better that td could.

3. new stadium draws more recruits interest, but coach repore with recruit and family is major factor along with schools rep of which ours is shot.

AnotherEagleFan · November 25, 2009

I perused acouple years starting from the year after we were in their conference(and owned a winning record over them in the Big West mind you). They did go on the road a few times, but I only counted 1 game against Top 25 OOC opponents in the 3 years between the Big West and playing Georgia.
The other Power League schools they faced were unranked, and a few were in really bad spells(they got Oregon State a few times when the Beavers were very down for example, and still lost once)

UCLA, Washington ST, Arkansas, Louisville are all cupcakes. Look you cannot help if one of those teams have a down year. You schedule them, you play them and you continue to do so until you are beating them. Boise was in div 1 AA in 1994 and look at where they are today with fewer resources then UNT.

OldTimer · November 25, 2009

I think we are in a bad spot either way you look at it. What more can TD sell that he has not already sold to prior recruits ? Can he honestly tell them that things at UNT are starting to turn around ?
Is a new stadium really the key ? Doesn't seem to bother TCU and 79 year old Amon Carter
We only have 4 recruits so far w/ 1 3 star recruit while other whom we compete with already have several solid commits lined up. Until I see the name of this phantom 5th verbal , I we can't depend on him right now.
ARK St 7 commits & 2 3star players
Baylor 13 commits & 11 3+ star players
FIU 11 commits & 6 3 star players
LaTech 8 commits & 1 3 star player
Houston 25 commits & 15 3+star players
Rice 8 commits & 4 3 star players
SMU 19 commits & 9 3 star players
TCU 9 commits & 7 3 star players
UTEP 13 commits & 4 3 star players
TX Tech 21 commits & 21 3+star players
UTSA 8 commits & 1 3star player
Tulane 19 commits & 3 3star players
Laugh if you want , but we are now battling the likes of UTSA & Lamar on kids whom in the past may have slip thru the cracks
To go along with the usual from Texas,a&m,OU & OSU. There are still some players out there whom are uncommitted , but I don't know if we are on their list or not. We have to fill out the rest of the signing class , but I'm just not sure where the talent is going to come from , Louisiana ? Miss JUCOs ?
If we stick w/ Dodge I can't see this being his best class , but if we bring in someone else he's already way behind and we would also risk losing our top recruit , Javia Hall.It would have to be a big hire in order to compensate the lack of time he would have

********************************************************************************************************

Last year 09 NT signed 3 -3* JC players and one 3* HS player plus had a 3* and 4* player transfer in, a total 6 . In 08 NT signed a total of 7-3* This puts us on an equal or higher statis the schools you listed above. Last year NT had 4 commits early and the balance of the recruits committed in December and January and we were competing with the BIG name schools not the UTSA or Lamar...evidently you don't read the post in the FB forum that showed the schools NT is competing against or chose to ignore the facts on who we are recruiting against or the number of 3*players NT is or has recruited in 08 and 09. This year I don't know what will happen...so much depends upon if Dodge returns, or we get someone new.

On where the recruits come from NT has 14 known offers outstanding to JCplayers, 5 from Kansas, 7 from TX and 1 from Miss. As of Oct 10 on a post by Charlie NT 73 NT had 13 prospects in OK showing an interest in NT plus 4 that had an interest but signed with Missouri, Ok, Colorado State and Iowa State. Most of the 80 to 100 NT prospects most are from Texas. We only know of 61 offers so far out of probably 100 offers made and of that 61 I don't show any from schools like UTSA or Lamar. They are gettng some recruits but I doubt they was from schools NT was recruiting as opposed to schools listing an interest in NT...but with no offers by NT. Obviously the most of our recruits are from Texas.

********************************************added later:

I missed one from a blog by Steven Bartolotta NT, ...Julian Herron was another transfer added late last year...he was ranked by Emfinger as a 5 Star prospect out of high. If you consider the four late signings, LaChris Anyiam, KC Obi, Kennan Flax and Herron brought with them a huge list of offers on the table from others. That would be TX A$M, Baylor, Washington State, AZ St, Rice, UTEP, Tulsa, Iowa St, Missouri, New Mexico, KS, Nebraska, Fresno St, and washington who all wanted the aforementioned previous names."I'd say the perception that NT can't compete with BCS schools in recruiting are that, perception."

untjim1995 · November 25, 2009

UCLA, Washington ST, Arkansas, Louisville are all cupcakes. Look you cannot help if one of those teams have a down year. You schedule them, you play them and you continue to do so until you are beating them. Boise was in div 1 AA in 1994 and look at where they are today with fewer resources then UNT.

Boise State has had so many more resources thatn UNT ever has had, it isn't even funny. They have a good-sized city all to themselves, as well as a state that wanted to support a winner. Plus, Boise State's stadium was a good size, easily expandable, and their city made itself a bowl destination. All of these resources basically combined to make BSU a monster--they city and university support the school with money and resources. Their conference recognized that a bowl game would be a good fit for Boise's stadium. All of that helps you schedule favorably. You start winning, going to bowl games, and recruiting picks up. Then, once you have it built up, you take on big-time programs and compete mightily with them because you have good coaches and consistent support.

UNT has had a small city (both in population and especially in mindedness) to deal with, have been practically ignored by the Metroplex, and most of the state follows UT, A&M, Tech, OU, OSU, Arkansas, Baylor, and every once in a while, TCU, SMU, and UH. UNT students and alumni have had almost zero connection to the school, much less the football team for ever. This is even talking about the fact that UNT has had the WORST STADIUM to play in and watch a game at in Division 1. Hell, Fouts was a BAD 1-AA stadium. Its just not close.

emmitt01 · November 25, 2009

evidently you don't read the post in the FB forum that showed the schools NT is competing against or chose to ignore the facts on who we are recruiting against or the number of 3*players NT is or has recruited in 08 and 09.

I've always chalked this all up to "whoop-de-freakin-do". When I was in high school I competed with the cool kids and the quarterback for all of the hot chicks. Much like Todd Dodge I never landed them...but I get points for competing right?

In 08 NT signed a total of 7-3* This puts us on an equal or higher statis the schools you listed above.

Tell me if any of these names ring a bell...as in, ring a bell because they log real playing time or have ever stepped foot on the field. Wouldn't that be a better barometer?

Troy Franklin

Nate Jenkins

Alonzo Horton (no longer on the roster)

Justin Edwards (no longer on the roster)

Edited November 25, 2009 by emmitt01

emmitt01 · November 25, 2009

What is your point? Jenkins hasn't contributed, but does return for his redshirt Senior year. Franklin is a RsFr or So. Horton and Edwards are not "no longer on the roster," they didn't qualify and never arrived. So Dodge caused them to fail their algebra classes in community college??

My point, for the kids in the back row adjusting their head gear, is that championing Todd Dodge for the talent he's brought in rings a bit hollow if that talent never sets foot on campus or contributes. If they ain't helping you win bsllgames you may as well sign a bunch of 2* talent and pray they pan out...oh, wait...

shaft · November 26, 2009

Pssst. Dodge can't do anything with no matter how many 'stars' they have.

Give these kids a chance and get a real college coach in here.

OldTimer · November 27, 2009

1. If TD remains - Will his recruiting be damaged by lack of success on the field ?
No. Others here may disagree. However, the recruiting hasn't been all that different than what we had under Dickey - a bunch of two-star or no-star recruits with a three-star mixed in here and there. It'll be the same if he stays. SMU, TCU, and everyone regionally is already getting close to their limit as well. So, we're getting the leftovers again anyway.
I believe this information is not correct. All of the below info has been posted to the FB forum before on the FB forum. It's interesting that NT had 3 JC known JC recruits at the army game...two-3 *s and a 4* whether we get them or not I don't know at this time.
09 recruiting signees :
Daniel Prior LB 3*
JC Jeremy Bean 3*
JC Ira Smith 3*
JC Shevod Atkinson 3*
Transfer Julian Herron 5* by Max Emfinger
Transfer Tyler Stradford 3*
Transfer DeWayne Bazil 3*
Transfer William Cole 4*
In addition to the above transfers the following late recruits were signed and enrolled and counted in our 09 recruiting: These late signees and transfer players had offers from the following schools, Does this look we are getting the leftovers?
Kennan Flax, LaChristopher, KC Obi.. Justin Chaptman The transfers and late additions only: had offers from SMU, Baylor, TCU, Tulsa, UTEP, Washington St, Univ OK , Connecticut, LaTech, Memphis , Ok St, Southern Miss, TT, Iowa, Iowa St, Missouri, TCU, Utah and UTEP, OK ST again, Tx A$M, AZ, KS, Missouri, Nebraska, Minnesota, Northwestern, Rice, SMU, UTEP again, Vanderbilt, Wisconsin..