I Feel For Td

gangrene · November 22, 2009

I think he can win in 2010, but he has yet to prove it. Much like we could have easily won 5 more games this year, I still think Dodge will be a great coach, but we are paying for his learning curve.

I agree with this. I have been a vocal opponent of continuing life with Dodge and vowed not to follow this football program if they couldn't win 4 games this year. However, I am more calm and collected now. Call it reduced expectations or whatever you choose, but two wins or four wins probably wouldn't really make that big of a difference anyway. I feel so bad for the team...it's really got to be hard to continue losing in this manner. I think they just need to get that one big win to get them over the hump and put this habit of finding ways to lose every game behind them. I'll give Dodge another 1/2 season. If this losing trend continues and we don't win at least three out of our first six games in 2010, I would be in favor of making a change at the helm - mid-season. However, I would also not be willing to ignore any potential big-time opportunities that may arise in the next few months.

perryfrog · November 22, 2009

The football team at the University of North Texas doesn't win because it

doesn't believe it can win.

Coach Dodge doesn't know how to change the mind-set of the team. You

need a new coach that understands this, and will change the thinking of

the players. Give them a winning attitude.

Dennis Francione is good at this, and he is available. Of course, once he

gets you turned around, he's gone to bigger and better things. Then, you

have to grab a coach that will keep the winning mind-set and continue

on your winning ways. But, that is easy once they are winners.

I really think that if Coach Dodge could do this, you guys would be a

really good team. I just don't think he knows how.

GO FROGS!!!!

GO MEAN GREEN!!!!

Got5onIt · November 22, 2009

These 1000 are equally qualified? I guess since there are 120 I-A quarterbacks so Peyton Manning and Tom Brady are just as replaceable as the next guy. With your logic, why would the upper tier firms pay ten times the wage when they can pull from the vast applicant pool someone who is equally qualified and less expensive?

Never said they were all equally qualified, just there is a huge group that is considerably more qualified. In any industry, you have to pay if you're looking for gauranteed results. The best will command the highest salaries.

OldTimer · November 22, 2009

The football team at the University of North Texas doesn't win because it
doesn't believe it can win.
Coach Dodge doesn't know how to change the mind-set of the team. You
need a new coach that understands this, and will change the thinking of
the players. Give them a winning attitude.
Dennis Francione is good at this, and he is available. Of course, once he
gets you turned around, he's gone to bigger and better things. Then, you
have to grab a coach that will keep the winning mind-set and continue
on your winning ways. But, that is easy once they are winners.
I really think that if Coach Dodge could do this, you guys would be a
really good team. I just don't think he knows how.
GO FROGS!!!!
GO MEAN GREEN!!!!

You need to go back and read the post by a players father on this board...Micah Mosleys dad says otherwise....

Cerebus · November 22, 2009

You need to go back and read the post by a players father on this board...Micah Mosleys dad says otherwise....

And another players dad says just the opposite. In the end, they are both just opinions, not secret inner knowledge handed down from on high.

rcade · November 22, 2009

With all the talk of Dodge crying after games -- I didn't hear the shows, so I don't know if it's true -- it makes me wonder whether he can handle adversity. It's not like he faced much of it coaching high school.

SilverEagle · November 22, 2009

The football team at the University of North Texas doesn't win because it
doesn't believe it can win.
Coach Dodge doesn't know how to change the mind-set of the team. You
need a new coach that understands this, and will change the thinking of
the players. Give them a winning attitude.
Dennis Francione is good at this, and he is available. Of course, once he
gets you turned around, he's gone to bigger and better things. Then, you
have to grab a coach that will keep the winning mind-set and continue
on your winning ways. But, that is easy once they are winners.
I really think that if Coach Dodge could do this, you guys would be a
really good team. I just don't think he knows how.
GO FROGS!!!!
GO MEAN GREEN!!!!

I totally agree with PerryFrogs basic premise. Most of winning (after you get good-to-above-average talent on board) is basically a mind set.

I've said this for a long time. I don't mind us being a stepping stone for up-and-coming coaches, or coaches who are trying to resurrect their career (assuming they still have the touch). We just need to replace them with the same type of coach with the same type of personality and/or way of doing things.

Let's start with Hayden Fry, who was our biggest culture changer and/or guru of changing our thinking from "well, good enough is OK with us" to "BECAUSE WE ARE A GREAT UNIVERSITY (ADLER would like that one) WE WILL WIN AND WE WILL WIN SOON.....BECAUSE WE DESERVE IT!"

The coaches that followed are...

Jerry Moore....tried to turn us into the Nebraska system. Trouble is, we didn't have their resources or their lack of competition for fans. A nice guy, but not a culture/mind-set changer.

Bob Tyler....he came to North Texas after getting Miss St. put on probation for NCAA violations. GOD! what were our administrators thinking?!?! BTW, one of the candidates for the job was Corkey Nelson.

Corkey Nelson....a great coach, a great evaluator of talent. He could have been a culture changer if he hadn't been working for a stingy and visionless administration. He always had to work with a much smaller budget and 20 few ships....yet he still beat some SWC schools.

Dennis Parker....I'm told he was hired by a faculty committee....only at North Texas.. <_< . A nice enough person, but not a "turn around the program" guy. One of the applicants for the job was Paul Johnson. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Johnson_...football_coach) FFR still pulls his hair out over this one.

Matt Simon......Again, not a culture changer or someone who could win with limited resources.

DD.....a Helwig hire. I'm told he made this decision because it was easy. Plus, making a thoughtful decision would have caused him to miss time at the golf course.

Todd Dodge... Because of his winning ways at SLC he was brought in to change the mind set and losing ways at North Texas. Only trouble is that he has never had to be a culture changer. Southlake had a mind set of winning LONG before Coach Dodge arrived. You don't have to do much motivating, when you are fed (by the community) a constant supply of over achievers.

Cerebus · November 22, 2009

Look. DD had faults, huge glaring faults. MASSIVE faults.

However, all this minimization of the accomplishments he and his teams had is just silly. He accomplished things this school had never done before, things we will probably never do again.

As time goes by, it usually smooths over the rough spots, and puts a shine on the high points. In ten years, I bet he will be remembered as a North Texas great.

Huff · November 22, 2009

I agree with Cerebus.

SilverEagle · November 22, 2009

Look. DD had faults, huge glaring faults. MASSIVE faults.
However, all this minimization of the accomplishments he and his teams had is just silly. He accomplished things this school had never done before, things we will probably never do again.
As time goes by, it usually smooths over the rough spots, and puts a shine on the high points. In ten years, I bet he will be remembered as a North Texas great.

....and again, the "market" didn't respond by some school hiring him away from us.

Cerebus · November 22, 2009

....and again, the "market" didn't respond by some school hiring him away from us.

The market hasn't come for Johnny Jones, he must be a terrible coach.

UNTFan23 · November 22, 2009

The market hasn't come for Johnny Jones, he must be a terrible coach.

Let's see how this year pans out and if JJ gets more notice.

SilverEagle · November 22, 2009

The market hasn't come for Johnny Jones, he must be a terrible coach.

But haven't there been rumors?

CaribbeanGreen · November 22, 2009

who cares? No one has hired Gary Patterson or Chris Peterson away either. As far as I know, Patterson only ever had one serious overture (Minn) and so did DD (Idaho). Fact is, low-personality and run-based coaches not known for exciting offenses are at a handicap. This much has been say by and about Patterson in recent weeks.

Regardless, I could care less who did or didn't try to hire him away.

I will never understand the belitting of the accomplishments of people like Brandon Kennedy, Kevin Galbreath, Scott Hall, Brad Kassell, Johnny Quinn, Patrick Cobbs, Jonas Buckles, Cody Spencer, Andrew Smith, Jamario Thomas, and SO many other of the best players in NT history. We witnessed arguably the greatest run this school has ever or will ever have -

-4 straight conference championships

-Back to Back National Rushing Champions

-New Orleans Bowl Championship

-Longest conference win streak in the nation

-Wins over Big XII opponents at home and on the road

-Top 20 ranked national defense

Cerebus is right - we probably will never witness a run like that again. We surely never have before.... oh, and guess what? NEITHER WILL/HAVE 95% OF SCHOOLS IN THE COUNTRY. Do you have any concept of how RARE and IMPOSSIBLE that run was? Littered with names of NT hall of famers, some of the greatest players to walk our campus. You can choose to find ways to tear it down all you want, but I didn't see any other schools doing it. When you put that kind of success in perspective with our overall DISMAL football history here, it becomes almost literally IMPOSSIBLE. The stuff movies are made of.

Imagine how a student at NT now feels, having gone to all the games for his or her time here. You think they can even IMAGINE that level of success? Think they wouldn't mortgage their fandom for it?

Also, any talk of "oh, the conference was weaker!" b.s. - the numbers bear out that that's not as big of a difference, but I wouldn't care if it was - no one else in the conference was close to doing it. These are the same teams that use us as practice now. And the biggest thing??? When this team was recruited, when this team dominated - there was no athletic center. No fancy treatment rooms. No athlete dorms. No prospect of a new stadium. No tailgating, no game day atmosphere of ANY kind. No long term plan from the AD. Locker rooms with leaks, tiny, dank weight rooms with lousy equipment, and days the power couldn't even be counted to stay on. So yeah, I didn't mind DD's "misfits and castoffs against the world" strategy. I understand how it grated on some, but that team had an IDENTITY. It damn sure didn't get blown out in conference, and even if DD's "yeah, damn right we're running right at you all day" strategy made some crazy, we didn't count on coaching meltdowns and errors every week. On every level, what that thing accomplished is incredible. Those players were the best I've had the pleasure to watch at NT. I'm not saying DD deserved a lifetime contract or there weren't problems - surely there were. But I have just about HAD IT with the bizarre need for some here to belittle the only success this thing has so much as sniffed in three decades, when it was some damn fine success I will never forget being fortunate enough to be a part of.

Nothing would make me happier than if TD could recreate 1/4th of DD's success here. I think we'd all be happy with that.

Travis · November 22, 2009

who cares? No one has hired Gary Patterson or Chris Peterson away either. As far as I know, Patterson only ever had one serious overture (Minn) and so did DD (Idaho). Fact is, low-personality and run-based coaches not known for exciting offenses are at a handicap. This much has been say by and about Patterson in recent weeks.
Regardless, I could care less who did or didn't try to hire him away.
I will never understand the belitting of the accomplishments of people like Brandon Kennedy, Kevin Galbreath, Scott Hall, Brad Kassell, Johnny Quinn, Patrick Cobbs, Jonas Buckles, Cody Spencer, Andrew Smith, Jamario Thomas, and SO many other of the best players in NT history. We witnessed arguably the greatest run this school has ever or will ever have -
-4 straight conference championships
-Back to Back National Rushing Champions
-New Orleans Bowl Championship
-Longest conference win streak in the nation
-Wins over Big XII opponents at home and on the road
-Top 20 ranked national defense
Cerebus is right - we probably will never witness a run like that again. We surely never have before.... oh, and guess what? NEITHER WILL/HAVE 95% OF SCHOOLS IN THE COUNTRY. Do you have any concept of how RARE and IMPOSSIBLE that run was? Littered with names of NT hall of famers, some of the greatest players to walk our campus. You can choose to find ways to tear it down all you want, but I didn't see any other schools doing it. When you put that kind of success in perspective with our overall DISMAL football history here, it becomes almost literally IMPOSSIBLE. The stuff movies are made of.
Imagine how a student at NT now feels, having gone to all the games for his or her time here. You think they can even IMAGINE that level of success? Think they wouldn't mortgage their fandom for it?
Also, any talk of "oh, the conference was weaker!" b.s. - the numbers bear out that that's not as big of a difference, but I wouldn't care if it was - no one else in the conference was close to doing it. These are the same teams that use us as practice now. And the biggest thing??? When this team was recruited, when this team dominated - there was no athletic center. No fancy treatment rooms. No athlete dorms. No prospect of a new stadium. No tailgating, no game day atmosphere of ANY kind. No long term plan from the AD. Locker rooms with leaks, tiny, dank weight rooms with lousy equipment, and days the power couldn't even be counted to stay on. So yeah, I didn't mind DD's "misfits and castoffs against the world" strategy. I understand how it grated on some, but that team had an IDENTITY. It damn sure didn't get blown out in conference, and even if DD's "yeah, damn right we're running right at you all day" strategy made some crazy, we didn't count on coaching meltdowns and errors every week. On every level, what that thing accomplished is incredible. Those players were the best I've had the pleasure to watch at NT. I'm not saying DD deserved a lifetime contract or there weren't problems - surely there were. But I have just about HAD IT with the bizarre need for some here to belittle the only success this thing has so much as sniffed in three decades, when it was some damn fine success I will never forget being fortunate enough to be a part of.
Nothing would make me happier than if TD could recreate 1/4th of DD's success here. I think we'd all be happy with that.

I don't like DD because he didn't care how his players' behavior was. He, unlike Dodge, didn't care to make men out of these boys.

I didn't care for DD because of his attitude and his product. I don't like how he represented the program. I do think most of his wins were weak by beating up schools from the weakest conference in the nation. As well as not caring at all about getting wins outside of conference. He didnt' care to elevate the program on the national scene and he belittled the fans. He constantly complained about having a tough schedule and when he finally got a decent one (the season we played Akron, Tulsa, etc.) he did nothing with it. And, he seemed to do have a bit of success from one good recruiting class and though some how good players would come with out him really doing much work. Again, players (one of which was my roommate) often criticized him for this.

Also, he did very little recruiting. I often heard criticism of his players about how poor of a recruiter he was. He was just as obstinate as Dodge is but in a different way (i.e. he wouldn't fire the worst OC in the nation, no balance in offense).

DD was crappy, so is dodge. let's get a not-so-crappy coach in here, how 'bout?

Just scattershooting here... but do you not remember how many delay of game penalties we would get under Dickey!? Or the poor use of Time Outs that would come back and haunt us?? He was a bad coach.

The Fake Lonnie Finch · November 22, 2009

....and again, the "market" didn't respond by some school hiring him away from us.

And Pat Hill is still at Fresno State. So what if the market didn't "respond"? The point is, they guy won and took us places that we hadn't been before - bowl games!

When I was at UNT from 1990-1995, we only made the I-AA playoffs once. The thing is, Darrell Dickey did well here with what he had. I remember listening to our win over Texas Tech in 1999 and being proud of us doing more than just "hanging in there" against a Big 12 school. I surely remember our first bowl season, and always will. And, the three after were icing on the cake.

Many of you want to diminish what the man did here based on his last two seasons. In 2005, he cold lost his starting QB in a car accident a month before the season started. In 2006, he had a heart attack in the middle of the season and still came back to coach.

The truth of the matter is, Todd Dodge is a football coach. He's judged by what his teams do on the field. As the end of the third season nears, it is still making the same mistakes it was making when he took the helm. It's not changing.

And, if RV isn't in the mood for changing the leadership after a ridiculous loss to Army, he needs to go as well. New stadium or not, SMU has already proved a shiny new stadium doesn't get you wins or top notch recruits - good coaching does. And, there are hundreds of good coaches across the country to choose from. RV needs to make a list and check it twice, then get us a new head coach for Christmas.