It Starts And Ends With The Head Coach!

KingDL1 · November 15, 2009

Let's pretend Dodge had my job:
In year one he wrote speeding tickets to stationary vehicles, randomly arrested little old ladies for prostitution and slept in his squad car the rest of the time.
In year two his son graduated the police academy. While waiting to be assigned his son as a partner he "improved" by waiting for the vehicles to start moving, albeit in a grocery store parking lot, before writing the speeding ticket. He didn't sleep his whole shift but rather hung out at the 7-11 "in case it got robbed."
In year three with his son riding shotgun he consistently arrives at the scene of robberies, assaults and murders "just a little late" but he's getting better! He's finally decided to turn on his radar gun...he just holds it upside down and 58mph looks like 85mph to him. Nobody's perfect.
He clearly deserves one more year to "turn that corner".

Not a true comparison, you would have to compare to police commissioners, and the elimination of corruption over their term. Much harder to rate and time will tell.

wardly · November 15, 2009

from the mid 70's to mid 80's tcu averaged 2 wins per season. it just takes time and money to turn a program around. we have the time, smu has the money.

UNT90 · November 15, 2009

If you like to believe it fine, but let me introduce you to the real world.
To bring in a proven head coach costs money end of story, if you want me to read you a fairy tale I can.
Could we have hired a better choice with the money we had it sure as hell looks like it. But hindsight is a wonderful thing.

This is such flawed thinking. No, we couldn't afford Jones, but we could have afforded Harbaugh or any other of a number of qualified D1A coordinators from big six conferences and successful D1AA head coaches (which is the path that I think fits best for UNT).

Money is such a secondary issue. There are only 120 of these jobs in the nation. A successful D1A assistant or D1AA head coach would jump at the chance to come here and use the opportunity to turn the program around and then leave for a beter, higher paying job, and that is fine. That is what we want. I hope our nxt 5 coaches make us better and move on, because we would be BETTER.

If Dodge is gone at the end of the season, I would like to see us take a run at the TCU defensive coordinator. Despite his age, I think this is the kind of coach that would be perfect for this situation.

http://gofrogs.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mt...pas_dick00.html

Been around a lot of winning football teams. Winning college football teams.

ntsumck · November 15, 2009

You guys want Dodge gone, how much are you going to give to the program to get a better coach??? June Jones is being paid mostly with private donations. I bet most of you bitching on this board gives less than $1K a year to the program.

Also, who will be our QB??

FirefightnRick · November 15, 2009

It is still hindsight and I would have agree Harbaugh would have been a better risk. But he could have flopped here we had know way of knowing. I don't know how much money Harbaugh wanted, his current salary is not listed. There is not flaw in my thinking, I have never said Dodge was the best or only choice we had. I said we could not afford to hire a current winning Head Coach especially from a high profile program. All our choices would have to be something like an assistant coach of some sort, and OC, DC, or the likes, but any would be unproven as a head coach. Unless things change, we have to deal with Dodge for at least one more year. Can he do it, I don't know, no one does for sure, so there is always hope no matter how small.
It is flawed thinking to to believe we had Harbaugh for sure, unless you know something I don't.
I am not a Dodge advocate, especially now, but I think he is what we got for one more year. Who knows maybe that will change tomorrow. I only have the choice to hope for success or not, I lack the money to make a change like SMU did. I wish I could help in that respect.

There were numerous coaches with experience interested in the job here. Larry Coker is sitting in San Antonio without a team and he's got a national championship ring on his hand. Money is not and has never been an "only" issue when it comes to obtaining a list of qualified and interested candidates for a head coaching job..

Rick

UNT90 · November 15, 2009

You guys want Dodge gone, how much are you going to give to the program to get a better coach??? June Jones is being paid mostly with private donations. I bet most of you bitching on this board gives less than $1K a year to the program.
Also, who will be our QB??

No S&^%. Obviously, if we all had that kind of money, bitching would be done up close and personal with the AD. We wouldn't need to come to a message board to vent.

Our QB would hopefully be someone who could avoid throwing INTs that are retured for touchdowns. Seriously, one player is not bigger than the program. If T. Dodge gets the ax, and R Dodge chooses to leave, so be it. It's not like he has led us to the promised land, Jeez!!!

We don't need 2 million to get a winning coach. We just need to make the right choice next time.

KingDL1 · November 15, 2009

This is such flawed thinking. No, we couldn't afford Jones, but we could have afforded Harbaugh or any other of a number of qualified D1A coordinators from big six conferences and successful D1AA head coaches (which is the path that I think fits best for UNT).
Money is such a secondary issue. There are only 120 of these jobs in the nation. A successful D1A assistant or D1AA head coach would jump at the chance to come here and use the opportunity to turn the program around and then leave for a beter, higher paying job, and that is fine. That is what we want. I hope our nxt 5 coaches make us better and move on, because we would be BETTER.
If Dodge is gone at the end of the season, I would like to see us take a run at the TCU defensive coordinator. Despite his age, I think this is the kind of coach that would be perfect for this situation.
http://gofrogs.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mt...pas_dick00.html
Been around a lot of winning football teams. Winning college football teams.

It is still hindsight and I would have agree Harbaugh would have been a better risk. But he could have flopped here we had know way of knowing. I don't know how much money Harbaugh wanted, his current salary is not listed. There is not flaw in my thinking, I have never said Dodge was the best or only choice we had. I said we could not afford to hire a current winning Head Coach especially from a high profile program. All our choices would have to be something like an assistant coach of some sort, an OC, DC, or the likes, but any would be unproven as a head coach. Unless things change, we have to deal with Dodge for at least one more year. Can he do it, I don't know, no one does for sure, so there is always hope no matter how small.

It is flawed thinking to to believe we had Harbaugh for sure, unless you know something I don't.

I am not a Dodge advocate, especially now, but I think he is what we got for one more year. Who knows maybe that will change tomorrow. I only have the choice to hope for success or not, I lack the money to make a change like SMU did. I wish I could help in that respect.

Edited November 15, 2009 by KingDL1

KingDL1 · November 15, 2009

There were numerous coaches with experience interested in the job here. Larry Coker is sitting in San Antonio without a team and he's got a national championship ring on his hand. Money is not and has never been an "only" issue when it comes to obtaining a list of qualified and interested candidates for a head coaching job..
Rick

I fully agree Rick,

I am just saying we don't know if Harbaugh was in the bag or not. And a High School coach is probably not going to perform as quickly as a winning Head Coach like Jones, if at all.

UNT90 · November 15, 2009

It is still hindsight and I would have agree Harbaugh would have been a better risk. But he could have flopped here we had know way of knowing. I don't know how much money Harbaugh wanted, his current salary is not listed. There is not flaw in my thinking, I have never said Dodge was the best or only choice we had. I said we could not afford to hire a current winning Head Coach especially from a high profile program. All our choices would have to be something like an assistant coach of some sort, an OC, DC, or the likes, but any would be unproven as a head coach. Unless things change, we have to deal with Dodge for at least one more year. Can he do it, I don't know, no one does for sure, so there is always hope no matter how small.
It is flawed thinking to to believe we had Harbaugh for sure, unless you know something I don't.
I am not a Dodge advocate, especially now, but I think he is what we got for one more year. Who knows maybe that will change tomorrow. I only have the choice to hope for success or not, I lack the money to make a change like SMU did. I wish I could help in that respect.

The flawed thinking I was talking about was the "we can't afford a coach" stuff. Many coordinators would take a pay cut to come here, believing they have the ability to come here, win, and then progress up the coaching chain. There are only 120 jobs like this in the world. We did not have to hire a high school coach.

Yes, a coordinator would be a gamble, but far, far less of a gamble than a high school coach. A successful D1AA coach has already been successful under difficult circumstances, which would make since for this program.

Edited November 15, 2009 by UNT90

KingDL1 · November 15, 2009

The flawed thinking I was talking about was the "we can't afford a coach" stuff. Many coordinators would take a pay cut to come here, believing they have the ability to come here, win, and then progress up the coaching change. There are only 120 jobs like this in the world. We did not have to hire a high school coach.
Yes, a coordinator would be a gamble, but far, far less of a gamble than a high school coach. A successful D1AA coach has already been successful under difficult circumstances, which would make since for this program.

I agree, but I never said we could not afford a coordinator, just a current wining head coach with a high profile program at our level, like Jones. I don't know that we could have met Harbaugh's desired salary either.

SilverEagle · November 15, 2009

I fully agree Rick,
I am just saying we don't know if Harbaugh was in the bag or not. And a High School coach is probably not going to perform as quickly as a winning Head Coach like Jones, if at all.

Art Briles hasn't been too far gone from the HS coaching ranks, but he paid some D-1 assisitant coaching dues before he got where he is now. Of course, after Saturday, he may wish that he was still back at UH.

TheTastyGreek · November 15, 2009

Art Briles hasn't been too far gone from the HS coaching ranks, but he paid some D-1 assisitant coaching dues before he got where he is now. Of course, after Saturday, he may wish that he was still back at UH.

He'll feel a lot better next year when Robert Griffin is back.

scrappyman1 · November 15, 2009

Ok when this year started mostly what was written by most was that if we could be competitive in most games and win 3-4 it would show

improvement. Well we lost in double overtime to Ohio by 1 point (Ohio has won more than us), Lost by two at the end, Lost by four in the

final few minutes, and lost by 7 in the final few minutes. In at least two of the games we could have scored and maybe won at the end. I

think that shows improvement and also competitive in the games. If those close games were won we would be at 6 wins right now. Keep

up the fignt WE ARE SHOWING IMPROVEMENT. Look at Texas Tech, because they had a pass intercepted and lost in the end. We are not

the only team with mistakes. We are a young team making mistakes, and with a year on us the mistakes should cease some. Give the team

a chance and I truely believe you will see improvement and a great difference next year. Would we have lost four games by 7 points or less

last year (NO! NO! NO!), because we got our butts handed to us last year, but at least this year we are making a game of it on most games.

Our time will come, just wait.

Rudy · November 15, 2009

We are still getting killed by the better teams of the Belt , Monroe & Troy.

Never thought Id see the day when Monroe was a "better" team in the belt.

You guys want Dodge gone, how much are you going to give to the program to get a better coach??? June Jones is being paid mostly with private donations. I bet most of you bitching on this board gives less than $1K a year to the program.
Also, who will be our QB??

And how much do you give? I guess that makes you a better fan?

Ok when this year started mostly what was written by most was that if we could be competitive in most games and win 3-4 it would show
improvement. Well we lost in double overtime to Ohio by 1 point (Ohio has won more than us), Lost by two at the end, Lost by four in the
final few minutes, and lost by 7 in the final few minutes. In at least two of the games we could have scored and maybe won at the end. I
think that shows improvement and also competitive in the games. If those close games were won we would be at 6 wins right now. Keep
up the fignt WE ARE SHOWING IMPROVEMENT. Look at Texas Tech, because they had a pass intercepted and lost in the end. We are not
the only team with mistakes. We are a young team making mistakes, and with a year on us the mistakes should cease some. Give the team
a chance and I truely believe you will see improvement and a great difference next year. Would we have lost four games by 7 points or less
last year (NO! NO! NO!), because we got our butts handed to us last year, but at least this year we are making a game of it on most games.
Our time will come, just wait.

We were improving, but it appears to many of us, that the improving has stopped and we may even be regressing. Plus, even if the team is getting better, some of this crap is all coaching. Shotgun on the 2, shotgun option from YOUR OWN 1, 8 yard cushions, arm tackles.

Travis · November 15, 2009

It is still hindsight and I would have agree Harbaugh would have been a better risk. But he could have flopped here we had know way of knowing. I don't know how much money Harbaugh wanted, his current salary is not listed. There is not flaw in my thinking, I have never said Dodge was the best or only choice we had. I said we could not afford to hire a current winning Head Coach especially from a high profile program. All our choices would have to be something like an assistant coach of some sort, an OC, DC, or the likes, but any would be unproven as a head coach. Unless things change, we have to deal with Dodge for at least one more year. Can he do it, I don't know, no one does for sure, so there is always hope no matter how small.
It is flawed thinking to to believe we had Harbaugh for sure, unless you know something I don't.
I am not a Dodge advocate, especially now, but I think he is what we got for one more year. Who knows maybe that will change tomorrow. I only have the choice to hope for success or not, I lack the money to make a change like SMU did. I wish I could help in that respect.

We couldn't match what Harbaugh was asking.

And for those that want to know, my source is reliable.

Edited November 15, 2009 by Travis

November 16, 2009

Under Bliel our D was average (i believe it was somewhere in between 50-65 in the nation) statistically speaking. Dodge came in and over night is was the worst in the nation. That can't be disputed. Niether can Dodge with the reputation of getting a lot of offensive yards that don't really translate into scores.
Keeping it close was a reference to the progress we have seen this year. I never mentioned the first two years, or Dickey's last two. I still see poor game management and the inability to hold on to leads. Though, we gave up a few of those Dodge's first year here too (i.e.- ASU and SMU). If bad luck is always happening to you, maybe it isn't bad luck... maybe it is just you.
I like your optimism. I want some of it. I just can't. After talking to a player or two... i find it that much more difficult to do so.

Close but not exactly. For the record, here's where our defense finished nationally in Total Defense:

2005 - 104

2006 - 64 (The Bleil Year)

2007 - 113 (Mendoza)

2008 - 120 Dead last. This was DeLoach's first year.

2009 - 107 Before the FIU game. Should improve a spot or two because we didn't give up many yards.

Here is the Total Offense for those years:

2005 - 116 Cobbs last year. Jamario was a junior. Two great running backs.

2006 - 117 Thomas/Robertson

2007 - 47 Dodge's first year

2008 - 57

2009 - 37 Through 9 games. 500 yards of offense in game 10

While it hasn't been the defense's fault entirely (they're still getting some help from special teams) they have made even less progress than the higher-rated offense.

Turnovers are partially to blame but not as much as you'd think. Here are the turnovers for the last four and current year:

2005 - 21 interceptions 13; fumbles 8

2006 - 29 interceptions 19; fumbles 10

2007 - 35 interceptions 28; fumbles 7

2008 - 33 interceptions 17; fumbles 16

2009 - 23 interceptions 13; fumbles 10 (through 10 games)

Also bear in mind that Dodge's teams (first two) vs. Dickey's teams (last two) have run 32% more plays so the loss ratio is virtually the same but appears to have actually improved this year.

It doesn't seem that the offense is making more mistakes than previously, maybe they just come at more crucial times. Still the defense is going to have to be able to cover some of those mistakes and they seldom have. However, the whole meltdown is a team effort. They just don't know how to win. No one knows if they ever will.

They could luck out and win the last two games but please, no one bet the rent money. Even if that happens it won't mean that they've turned the corner in my opinion.

Travis · November 16, 2009

Close but not exactly. For the record, here's where our defense finished nationally in Total Defense:
2005 - 104
2006 - 64 (The Bleil Year)
2007 - 113 (Mendoza)
2008 - 120 Dead last. This was DeLoach's first year.
2009 - 107 Before the FIU game. Should improve a spot or two because we didn't give up many yards.
Here is the Total Offense for those years:
2005 - 116 Cobbs last year. Jamario was a junior. Two great running backs.
2006 - 117 Thomas/Robertson
2007 - 47 Dodge's first year
2008 - 57
2009 - 37 Through 9 games. 500 yards of offense in game 10
While it hasn't been the defense's fault entirely (they're still getting some help from special teams) they have made even less progress than the higher-rated offense.
Turnovers are partially to blame but not as much as you'd think. Here are the turnovers for the last four and current year:
2005 - 21 interceptions 13; fumbles 8
2006 - 29 interceptions 19; fumbles 10
2007 - 35 interceptions 28; fumbles 7
2008 - 33 interceptions 17; fumbles 16
2009 - 23 interceptions 13; fumbles 10 (through 10 games)
Also bear in mind that Dodge's teams (first two) vs. Dickey's teams (last two) have run 32% more plays so the loss ratio is virtually the same but appears to have actually improved this year.
It doesn't seem that the offense is making more mistakes than previously, maybe they just come at more crucial times. Still the defense is going to have to be able to cover some of those mistakes and they seldom have. However, the whole meltdown is a team effort. They just don't know how to win. No one knows if they ever will.
They could luck out and win the last two games but please, no one bet the rent money. Even if that happens it won't mean that they've turned the corner in my opinion.

What is the stat of Scoring Offense?

That is one problem with Dodge's offense i thought. We move the chains but it didn't really translate into scoring.

NT80 · November 16, 2009

What is the stat of Scoring Offense?
That is one problem with Dodge's offense i thought. We move the chains but it didn't really translate into scoring.

I agree with this. Plus we are not making in-game adjustments very well. The no huddle formations are supposed to give us an advantage of calling plays to attack a defensive weakness that is seen from the pressbox on each play. Instead, the vaunted vertical-stretch offense has been reduced to the horizontal-hope-they-can-break-tackles offense. Perhaps it is because most all teams now play a spread offense and know how to defend it better. We score enough against weaker opponents to win but against the middle to better teams we are easily defensed.

KRAM1 · November 16, 2009

Let's pretend Dodge had my job:
In year one he wrote speeding tickets to stationary vehicles, randomly arrested little old ladies for prostitution and slept in his squad car the rest of the time.
In year two his son graduated the police academy. While waiting to be assigned his son as a partner he "improved" by waiting for the vehicles to start moving, albeit in a grocery store parking lot, before writing the speeding ticket. He didn't sleep his whole shift but rather hung out at the 7-11 "in case it got robbed."
In year three with his son riding shotgun he consistently arrives at the scene of robberies, assaults and murders "just a little late" but he's getting better! He's finally decided to turn on his radar gun...he just holds it upside down and 58mph looks like 85mph to him. Nobody's perfect.
He clearly deserves one more year to "turn that corner".

Emmitt01...don't you work for the Dallas Police? Sounds like you guys ARE only writing tickets to stationary vehicles these days...how many Dallas Cops have stopped writing tickets because they are looking at being a little serious about cops who write "bad tickets"...hey, I don't know, but seems I read where Dallas doesn't even investigate some robberies and break-ins to keep the crime rate "down". Hmmmmmmm. Look, I think the Dallas cops do a great job in a very difficult environment. Every one is a hero in my book, but when you live in a glass hose, you might want to be careful about throwing rocks. So, what year will the Dallas Police start investigating every crime reported to them??? And, when will they go back to writing those tickets to folks who actually break the law???? How long out of the police academy for that?

By the way, will you be throwing your hat in the ring for the Top Cop job that just came open in Dallas? Now, that guy gets "evaluated" every day in the press and by those wonderful police unions, etc., etc. I wonder what the "DallasCops.com" blog site is syaing about him these days????? :lol: :lol:

Green P1 · November 16, 2009

We were improving, but it appears to many of us, that the improving has stopped and we may even be regressing. Plus, even if the team is getting better, some of this crap is all coaching. Shotgun on the 2, shotgun option from YOUR OWN 1, 8 yard cushions, arm tackles.

This can never be forgiven.

KRAM1 · November 16, 2009

This can never be forgiven.

Of couse it can...BUT, that was a peretty "interesting" play call...even I don't get it. I don't think I would have imagined that in 100 years...even from what i have seen of playcalling this season. However, you make it work...well...good call, right? Well, NO, not really...even if it worked, not a good call!!!!!

GO MEAN GREEN!

November 16, 2009

What is the stat of Scoring Offense?
That is one problem with Dodge's offense i thought. We move the chains but it didn't really translate into scoring.

It appears that was true only in 2008 (Vizza's sophomore jinx). Here are the average points and first downs for the past five years:

2005 12.6 FD 14.3 PPG 1.13 points per 1st down

2006 12.8 FD 12.8 PPG 1.00 points per 1st down

2007 21.5 FD 24.8 PPG 1.15 points per 1st down

2008 20.6 FD 20.0 PPG .97 points per 1st down

2009 20.6 FD 28.0 PPG 1.36 points per 1st down

Both Dodge's first year and this year exceeded either of Dickey's last two years. However, as I was typing this I decided to go back and look at 2004. It was a bowl year and the last year that I had data. I found that the 2004 team averaged 1.68 points per first down...quite a bit higher than any of these shown but remember that may have been our best team since our return to Division 1-A.

That is what is disheartening about this year. Even with our best offensive year since 2004 we still are not winning games. The mistakes have been consistent with Dodge; this year is no better or worse. So where can we go from here? Riley has improved the offense but how or when can be believe that will translate to wins?

untjim1995 · November 16, 2009

We couldn't match what Harbaugh was asking.
And for those that want to know, my source is reliable.

I, too, heard that Harbaugh was looking at a salary that was in the between $375K and $400K per year. This could even be low. We couldn't come close to that because we were still paying for Dickey's last 2 years on his cotract, so we went and got the coach that we could afford and create a buzz.

Everyone can hate the "we are poor little ol' UNT", but until the administration and the BOR say that we will buy out Dodge's remaining contract AND offer a salary that is around what Harbaugh wanted coming from a Division III school, Dodge will be here for 2010. We might only have 10K in attendance next year, but the cost to the university will outweigh the possibilities of increased support with a new coach.

Look, it is really simple. Unless, the university decides to fund this thing at a differnet level than they have historically, Dodge will be here. But the good news is that it will be his reckoning as a head coach. Next year, either Dodge wins 7+ games and we go to a bowl game (assuming that there are no quirky leave-outs due to us being in a piss-poor conference) or he is gone. We go into a new stadium with a lot of talent that is somehwat seasoned and a new coach that can recruit kids here to a great stadium and facilities. We made a bad decision on signing Dodge to a five year deal and we have to deal with it--AND learn from it, too. Most deals are actually a year short of the tenure on the contract for recruiting purposes, so a 4-year deal really says that you have 3 years to get this going. No coach ever goes into his last year of a contract without an extension planned because it kills recruiting. Three years really should be enough to see a coach turn it around in today's world. We have seen Rice turn around in one year, SMU turn around in 2 years, etc. It can be done here, too.

Mean Green 93-98 · November 16, 2009

Thanks for the post. That sheds a little light on the whole Harbaugh thing. A couple of things in your post I would like to point out or ask about.

Unless, the university decides to fund this thing at a differnet level than they have historically, Dodge will be here.

Well, now that we have a dedicated student athletic fee, we have capabilities that we never had before. If RV is convinced that TD will not turn this thing around, I believe he could have him gone at the end of this year. Part of me wants to see that change made, and part of me wants to see if one more year can do it.

Next year, either Dodge wins 7+ games and we go to a bowl game (assuming that there are no quirky leave-outs due to us being in a piss-poor conference) or he is gone.

I'm not saying those aren't reasonable expectations, but how do you know he will be gone if we have 6 wins? You sound awfully sure.