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You Just Have To See This

KRAM1
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KRAM1 Rookie

KRAM1

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I am beginning to think this is how the dems will get Obamacare passed...simply amazing...a fine American representative at work upholding and supporting the US Constitution....

Maybe you have seen this...I had not. I do not care if this was a Republican, a democrat or an Independent abusing power like this guy...it is absolutely criminal and should be punished severely. Great work by that Great American hero John Murtha! Good Grief.

EagleGreen Newbie

EagleGreen

Posted
Posted

I am beginning to think this is how the dems will get Obamacare passed...simply amazing...a fine American representative at work upholding and supporting the US Constitution....

Maybe you have seen this...I had not. I do not care if this was a Republican, a democrat or an Independent abusing power like this guy...it is absolutely criminal and should be punished severely. Great work by that Great American hero John Murtha! Good Grief.

Surely you are not basing your opinion on an edited version of procedure posted on you tube.

UNT90 Newbie

UNT90

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Posted

Nothing Murtha does surprises me anymore other than the fact he's still somehow in office. Like Deeds and Corzine tonight, I hope his turn is next.

Rick

Losing the New Jersey capitol to a conservative republican should scare the hell out of the dems.

NEW JERSEY!!! To a conservative?!?! That just does't happen. Whitman was a republican, not a coservative. This really is amazing.

This race will probbly make several dems rethink their position on the Health Care entitlement package.

yyz28 Enthusiast

yyz28

Posted
Posted (edited)

Surely you are not basing your opinion on an edited version of procedure posted on you tube.

Surely you're not supporting Murtha's actions shown in the unedited portion of this video? ...there was a section taken out for time that had no bearing on what was going on in the house here... This WAS a blatant abuse of power. You can try and color it however you want for whatever reason, but I'd be calling for this person's resignation and head on a platter for subverting the rules of the congress and constitution in this way no matter what party he was in.

This isn't new though - this happened nearly 2 years ago, and nobody in the Democratic leadership did anything about it, and the media didn't report it. BIG shock-a-roo.

Edited by yyz28
KRAM1 Rookie

KRAM1

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Not saying I disagree with you on the term limits thing...But...with term limits you throw out the good with the bad. While we do have a form of term limits...it's called the ballot box every 2, 4 6 years depending...it is very tempting to favor term limits. I just would hate to see the very few good reps and senators thrown out with all the crooks and cronies we now have in DC. It takes several years for a rep to even get to know his/her way around the capital...and, think about this for a moment...with term limits what you are doing is giving more and more power to the bureaucrats that run the congressional and senatorial offices. It surprise some to know that these un-elected staffers have a great deal of sway in DC and "young in term" senators and congressmen often lean very heavily on their staffers to make "their" decisions. Some of the staffers simply stay in DC for what could be termed a career. Also, on top of the staffers, you have all the departmental bureaucrats that are "professional" government workers. They, too, held sway the mind of congressman and senators and have much more influence in the "early" years of an elected officials term/s in DC.

So, term limits, would, in effect, be transferring some of the "governance" that we would all like to see be cleaned up through term limits, simply to DC bureaucrats.

Again, not saying I wouldn't favor term limits, but there are several issues, many of which are not so simple to discern, involved in making this decision.

With that being said, the mid-term elections are here in 2010, so are you going to help set some term limits for some folks or will you help maintain the status quo? Your decision...vote or not.

yyz28 Enthusiast

yyz28

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Posted

Not saying I disagree with you on the term limits thing...But...with term limits you throw out the good with the bad.

I don't think that argument holds water. If you've got good ideas, you've used them all if you've been there say 10 years. ...and I want term limits for each office... so you can be in the house for say 10 years (5 terms) senate for 12 years (2 terms) and then President for 2 Terms (8 years)...AND you can be governor or in the statehouse before that. ...if someone is good enough that people want to keep them around, move them from the house to the senate, or whatever.

...but lets say a rep goes for 5 terms and then as senator for two terms. That's 22 years. ...I mean, if you can't get 'er done in 22 years, you aren't gonna get it done. :)

KRAM1 Rookie

KRAM1

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I don't think that argument holds water.

What argument? I merely present something to think about...not sure you did, however.

yyz28 Enthusiast

yyz28

Posted
Posted

What argument? I merely present something to think about...not sure you did, however.

The argument that you throw the good out with the bad as an argument against term limits. As stated, I think if term limits are set up in the right way, the good ones can stay in Washington for a long time if the voters wish to keep sending them there.

I'm sorry you don't think I presented anything worth thinking about.

The point you make about bureaucrats is interesting, but their power and limits on it can be legislated, and having more turnover in congress means the bureaucrats would have new people to answer to, which I think is a good thing.

I just want to see people in Washington doing something other than running for re-election, which is a big reason that the important issues never seem to get addressed, and hard decisions never made.

yyz28 Enthusiast

yyz28

Posted
Posted

Having seen the effects of term limits on the state offies in California, I'm not sure that's the way to o either.

term limits aren't the problem in California. California's system is as dissimilar to the federal system as you can get. The courts have all the power in that state.

Voters vote for policy, the court strikes it down.

The Legislature passes policy, the court strikes it down.

...the other problem is the direct democracy, where voters can vote themselves in goodies. ...once people figure out they can vote themselves benefits, it's over.

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