College Towns

Stan R · October 30, 2009

The main business district for students - Fry St. - was razed. It's a shell of its former self, which is sad, and what's worse is that nobody's doing anything about it.

This was sad to see when I drove through there recently. I don't know if the city council realized what they were doing when they axed this project. Is this what they would have preferred?

eulessismore · October 30, 2009

This was sad to see when I drove through there recently. I don't know if the city council realized what they were doing when they axed this project. Is this what they would have preferred?

Or, should the project have been authorized in the first place? It sounded like it wasn't well thought it. Sure, Fry St. was sleazy, but is sterile what is wanted for the "college town" feel?

Green P1 · October 30, 2009

Or, should the project have been authorized in the first place? It sounded like it wasn't well thought it. Sure, Fry St. was sleazy, but is sterile what is wanted for the "college town" feel?

Sleazy?

eulessismore · October 30, 2009

Sleazy?

I was just searching for some word to describe what I thought some board members were tired of seeing, and were glad to see it go, thinking it would be replaced by something better. But as Tasty said, "nobody likes beatniks".

Green P1 · October 30, 2009

Maybe dingy?

Unless you were referring to the emo/scene/whatever kids that congregated in front of The Tomato, they might have been sleazy.

ntjour · October 30, 2009

Having attended NT and OSU, I feel like I've got a little perspective on this. The DFW area is such a different type of beast than a lot of the "college towns" y'all are talking about. Most of those towns have the type of fervent support for the local colleges and universities because it's literally all they've got besides the high schools. With the metroplex expanding up I-35E and Denton being literally absorbed into it, the city lacks that aspect. The commuters really don't help, either, but that's for later. Let me put it this way: Columbus, OH has 1.) Ohio State, 2.) the Blue Jackets, and 3.) the Columbus Crew. The Crew and CBJ have loyal fan bases and are respectable teams in their leagues, but neither come close to rivaling OSU's, which has been around for 130 years, with the hockey and soccer teams existing for a combined 25-30 years.
Columbus is a decent sized city, but it's not part of a sprawling metro area like Denton. Any local college (see TCU) has to compete with the Cowboys, Mavs, Rangers, Stars, UT, A&M, OU, TT, and LSU sports to an extent due to the nature of the population. Since most people aren't familiar with NT having traditions of ANY kind (and I mean WINNING traditions, or anything really consistent...shades of green anyone?), then there's less opportunity for people to identify with even the largest of public universities in the area...which NT is. NT isn't a branch campus of a larger university but it gets treated that way because nobody has a reason to care besides those associated with it.
My final point is that Denton and the campus area aren't built for the type of "college town" atmosphere that we all crave. The main business district for students - Fry St. - was razed. It's a shell of its former self, which is sad, and what's worse is that nobody's doing anything about it. There's next to nothing across the street from the dorms on Eagle Drive, except for the shopping center and Save-A-Lot. There's hardly anything to the east of campus, and to the west are neighborhoods and highway. To me, to have the type of feeling you want, there needs to be a reason for pedestrian traffic. Living in the DFW area, nobody really ever walks around, which in itself is vital to your "college towns". The new stadium will help significantly, but Denton HAS to develop the campus area with businesses for there to be any kind of progress.

Very good points. Denton can become a great college town over time. But, it will probably increase as more and more students/alums/citizens talk positively or support the school and the town.While an undergrad I was able to go on exchange to UGA, & I didn't run into too many alums that didn't have anything good to say about their alma mater. How many times have we heard either Denton residents or UNT students/alums sound apathetic towards anything UNT? Once that changes, the "college town" feel will change.

NT80 · October 31, 2009

Sorry, I've already told you it's not unique, using Winston-Salem North Carolina as an example.

Thus the meaning of "most" in my text........Denton is unique to most college towns...

eulessismore · October 31, 2009

Thus the meaning of "most" in my text........Denton is unique to most college towns...

Well, at least you put it in the category of "college towns", if not (according the the OP) a "classic" college town. I'm still not impressed by your theory, and, even if I thought it were true, would not acknowledge that, due to it sounding so lame it would only subject us to pity or scorn, either of which sounds like the "beatdown" mentioned earlier. And I think it interesting that this thread was started, (and has been only depressing to some) according to its originator, to start something that was neither as "redundant or depressing", immediately after we had received some truly wonderful news about the stadium project passing the final authorization. Those good intentions falling so short demonstrates why I am skeptical regarding so many conspiracy theories (which, in my opinion, the "TWU is holding us back" is), that they almost never take into account that even if there are conspiracies, that "stuff" simply happens. Yes, I know there really are conspiracies, and yes, I wish I could have used a word other than "stuff".

I still think that UNT and TWU need to find some common goals to work towards, maybe between the two of them, create a school of architecture or something.

Aquila_Viridis · October 31, 2009

What's TWU?

eulessismore · October 31, 2009

What's TWU?

What's TWU is what's not FALSE.

Shuke-D · October 31, 2009

What's TWU?

Well, when I attended, it stood for Two Women United. But that's a whole other can of worms.

shaft · October 31, 2009

What's the standard for a great college town again?

meangreendork · October 31, 2009

What's the standard for a great college town again?

IDK, apparently you need a tier 1 football program, a city population that's 80% students, and every building painted in school colors. You know, apparently you can't have a college town without this. This thread is dumb as hell.

NT80 · October 31, 2009

I still think that UNT and TWU need to find some common goals to work towards, maybe between the two of them, create a school of architecture or something.

The logical fix and to save $, both being state schools with duplicated staffs and departments, is to merge TWU into UNT> East and West campuses within Denton. Problem solved.

aztecskin · October 31, 2009

Yes. This is a dumb thread. We sure do a lot of whining don't we?

eulessismore · November 1, 2009

Yes. This is a dumb thread. We sure do a lot of whining don't we?

And dumberer? However, I think it was started with perfectly good intentions.

shaft · November 1, 2009

And dumberer? However, I think it was started with perfectly good intentions.

No it wasn't. It was one more baseless complaint.

What is the standard for a "great college town"? What tangible element is Denton missing. Because if you look at tangible things like population, demographics, bars per capita, public transportation, Denton has it. Denton ranks high on the creative class scale, which measures all the things one would include in a great college town.

HoustonEagle · November 1, 2009

Not sure how you define a great college town. I just know that Denton is not one. Still, I love visiting the place.

I think what has so many frustrated on here is the potential UNT/Denton has and how it seems like it will never be fulfilled. I will say this, businesses will jump on board when it is good for their business. Fill the Pit or the new Football Stadium on game days and just watch how fast a Green McDonald's sign goes up. Mean Green Donuts will be served at the Donut shops. Green Coffee at the Starbucks.

You want more students that are proud of their University. Give them more to be proud of. Increase our Endowment from 89 Million. Create some true ranked programs outside of music. Sure would nice to find UNT in the rankings of US News and World report. Yes I know we are "up and coming" but we still do not make it into the physical magazine. You can go on-line and find us mentioned as a Tier 4 University.

What we all desire has to be earned. Some progress has been made but it has been very slow in the making.

Varsity · November 2, 2009

My final point is that Denton and the campus area aren't built for the type of "college town" atmosphere that we all crave. The main business district for students - Fry St. - was razed. It's a shell of its former self, which is sad, and what's worse is that nobody's doing anything about it. There's next to nothing across the street from the dorms on Eagle Drive, except for the shopping center and Save-A-Lot. There's hardly anything to the east of campus, and to the west are neighborhoods and highway. To me, to have the type of feeling you want, there needs to be a reason for pedestrian traffic. Living in the DFW area, nobody really ever walks around, which in itself is vital to your "college towns". The new stadium will help significantly, but Denton HAS to develop the campus area with businesses for there to be any kind of progress.

This is about right.

Speaking as an outsider (my brother went to UNT and I am from the Houston area) the geography of the place seems to smother the kind of college town atmosphere that y'all crave. The first time I visited Denton I was surprised to find the campus as far from the old center of town as it was. When I first saw the campus, I was also surprised to see how little there is around it.

eulessismore · November 2, 2009

This is about right.
Speaking as an outsider (my brother went to UNT and I am from the Houston area) the geography of the place seems to smother the kind of college town atmosphere that y'all crave. The first time I visited Denton I was surprised to find the campus as far from the old center of town as it was. When I first saw the campus, I was also surprised to see how little there is around it.

Y'all should check out UTA and UTD. UTA has everything you don't want (is basically in a really bad neighborhood, and UTD has nothing you can get to without driving. In some respects, UNT has gotten a more collegial feel just from the tailgating, as well as the Murchison Performing Arts Center. But I guess that's only important if you like the music program at UNT.

Edited November 2, 2009 by eulessismore

LoveMG · November 2, 2009

This is about right.
Speaking as an outsider (my brother went to UNT and I am from the Houston area) the geography of the place seems to smother the kind of college town atmosphere that y'all crave. The first time I visited Denton I was surprised to find the campus as far from the old center of town as it was. When I first saw the campus, I was also surprised to see how little there is around it.

unt was carved out of a neighborhood of declining older homes and has expanded into such slowly. the lack of securing any high quality stores and restaurants nearby has given way to ponchos and sack n save et al. throw in some nearby ragtag apartments and its not exactly a selling point area for mom and dad looking. hippie denton seems to live forever.