College Towns

[MeanGreenEagle]

Pretty much because we are so close to a major metropolitan area. UNT attracts all the DFW kids that love UT but can't get in or want to stay close to home. This as a result waters down school spirit.

[shaft]

Yeah, we were a huge college town during the Simon years.

Part of it is the business owners who historically refuse to support NT and even don't like to hang NT gear in the business. I

Don't let the facts get in the way of your rant.

The square is covered in schedules the start of each season.

[eulessismore]

Biggest obstruction to Denton's support of UNT? TWU.

Denton is not a ONE college town. Plus, UNT has not been seen as on equal footing with the other Texas large athletic programs, mostly by conference affiliation, although Fouts has hurt our image too. This is where I expect the new stadium to make a huge impact...image of our program to those outside the school.

A stadium is a window to a school's football program!

Could anyone explain to me the basis for the "TWU has held UNT back" theory? Sorry, I'll admit, when I read this one in the forum, I immediately think tinfoil hat stuff.

[NT03]

An Idea I'd like to throw out there.

Every year at homecoming the School should allow students to turn in any other college team shirt in for a UNT shirt. Then those shirts collected all thrown into the Bonfire.

[eulessismore]

Guys I am not sure which forum to place this but I will start here. After visiting several "college towns" and acutally living in a big one (Knoxville) I would say that Denton falls way short of being called a classic college town. Why is this? Where does Denton fall short? Is is the school's fault? I love college towns and the vibes they have on game day. I am an old timer and live out of town but I am curious if we have much buzz at the local retail strips around or the eateries? how about the bars post game? I know our tailgating has improved dramatically and I am excited about that aspect of game day. I really want us to have some great tailgating areas around the stadium. Maybe around the pond. Maybe a small amphitheatre for bands that could be used for other venues. How about a RV section with hook ups.

Just thought I would throw out a new topic as things are getting a bit redundant and depressing around here.

Denton had a great college town atmosphere when I attended there back in the late 70's and early 80's. The only thing I can tell that's different is that there's a real game day atmosphere now. Honestly, I was more of a basketball fan then; Bill Blakeley (sp?), what a great coach! Man, music just flowed from everywhere, and such a friendly place! So, why would the RV section add to the "college town" feel? To me; when out camping in wilderness areas, those never seemed to promote socializing. Did I just go to school in Denton at a different time than you, or is what you're talking about strictly related to football? I think the new stadium will be a big help, but at some point we'll have to start winning more to get the fence sitters and those presently uninterested to get fired up about UNT football.

Edited October 30, 2009 by eulessismore

[vpackrats]

For my .02 cents, Denton supports the high schools more than the university. No question about it. For example, back in 1989 I played on the baseball team & we had our games at good ol' Mack Park. Now THAT was a college baseball stadium lemme tell ya. Anyway, we wanted to spruce up the place & approached the city to roof up the dugouts to make them look more presentable. Y'know, put a wood roof on the dugouts & paint them green & white. The city had no problem with the improvements -- as long as we painted the dugouts purple & gold (Denton H.S. colors). So, that was the end of that idea & we just kept playing with chain link dugouts. Basically, I learned as a sophomore that you can't fight city hall.

[Shuke-D]

Did I just go to school in Denton at a different time than you, or is what you're talking about strictly related to football? I think the new stadium will be a big help, but at some point we'll have to start winning more to get the fence sitters and those presently uninterested to get fired up about UNT football.

EIM. You're both right actually. He is clearly referring to the football-aspect of the 'college town' environment. And Denton/UNT did not have that in my time there. Now, what it did have, as you and some others have pointed out, is the creative/experimental aspect of the college experience to the Nth degree. This is what I loved about it. But, at least in the 90s, most people didn't give a flip about the football environment and the concomitant aspects of pride and loyalty that come with those. This is why the occasional pot-shot made on this board about music/art majors dragging the school down don't bother me. Those types of students don't drag down the school, at all. I've been in lots of situations out here and on the East coast where people knew all about UNT exactly because of the strengths of those programs. However, for the most part, those students are not going to come out for a winning or losing football product. And what they do not understand/care about is how excellence in those areas enhance other parts of the University image. A rising tide raises all boats. There is room in Denton for both types of the traditional college experience. More school pride, even from lackadaisical fence sitters, would result in better giving back to the University, a larger General Fund, and, god-forbid, maybe a few more art scholarships. From the few times I've been to a game in the last couple years, things are definitely headed in the right direction, and far advanced from when I was a student. Now, a few close wins here and there against good competition, with the occasional butt-stomping domination game against a hated rival, and there are all the components to get something going in Denton like they have in other places. I wouldn't mind seeing that at all when I come back for a game.

Then again, I'll still make time to visit whatever is left of Fry Street while there.

[Green Mean]

Does a town have to be heavily athletics-centric for it to be one? Yes I would say that Denton is a college time because for 9 months out of the year there are about maybe 50K students in this town related to colleges. No Denton is not a college town in regards to athletics but overall yes it is a college town and most people regard it as one.

[Aquila_Viridis]

When I graduated and left Denton, I went straight to Charlottesville, Virginia, which when you consider all the factors of what you look for in a college town, is arguably the best college town in the country. While there are some stark differences there are also some basic similarities. Let's contrast these with Austin, which is a great city, but can hardly be considered a college town anymore. It is more of a big city that has a university in it. On the other hand, when I go to Denton it does have a sense of being removed from the main part of the metroplex, and this sort of separate place is still very much dominated by the presence of the university. The day will likely come when many families in the region see UNT as the best option for their students, not a fourth or fifth resort. By the way, I could have gone to college wherever I wanted with the possible exception of the Harvards or Yales of the world. I chose to go to North Texas and with the sole exception of this lifelong football inferiority I have never regretted it. I enjoy going back to Denton despite its shortcomings.

[Rudy]

Pretty much because we are so close to a major metropolitan area. UNT attracts all the DFW kids that love UT but can't get in or want to stay close to home. This as a result waters down school spirit.

Don't let the facts get in the way of your rant.

The square is covered in schedules the start of each season.

Wow, thanks for reading the whole post. It is getting better now, yes. But it wasnt until we were winning the Belt each year that they started doing this. But I guess all is well if some businesses post the schedules. Damn, it looks like Denton is a college town now. Disregard this thread.

[pollock]

Could anyone explain to me the basis for the "TWU has held UNT back" theory? Sorry, I'll admit, when I read this one in the forum, I immediately think tinfoil hat stuff.

I can. The purveyor of that theory has apparently never been to Denton and just made that up.

No disrespect to TWU intended, but in terms of community support for athletics, TWU is an afterthought and has no bearing on any lack thereof for UNT.

[DallasGreen]

I can. The purveyor of that theory has apparently never been to Denton and just made that up.

No disrespect to TWU intended, but in terms of community support for athletics, TWU is an afterthought and has no bearing on any lack thereof for UNT.

To quote a famous Oklahoma state representative " our goal as alums and supporters of (insert UNT) should be to build a university that our athletic teams can be proud of" until that attitude prevails in Denton and on the campus the full potential will never be realized in any area of college life or alumni pride and neither will the metroplex privates worst nightmare come to pass.

[eulessismore]

I can. The purveyor of that theory has apparently never been to Denton and just made that up.

No disrespect to TWU intended, but in terms of community support for athletics, TWU is an afterthought and has no bearing on any lack thereof for UNT.

Exactly. There are many programs that are offered at both schools, and I know women (not men) who have attended and/or received degrees from both. They did so for their own reasons, but I never saw that as taking away from UNT, since the duplicate programs are of long standing and well supported at both. But, since this is the football forum, and TWU has no history (and almost certainly no future) in college football, it's hard for me to get the point of that particular theory, unless there's some sarcasm that's hard to see in an internet forum posting.

[NT80]

I can. The purveyor of that theory has apparently never been to Denton and just made that up.

No disrespect to TWU intended, but in terms of community support for athletics, TWU is an afterthought and has no bearing on any lack thereof for UNT.

There have been many fundraisers aimed at Denton businesses or asked to show some sign of visible support for UNT athletics. Many will tell you they don't want to alienate the TWU crowd or can't give to both so they decline.

[kj86]

Denton not a college town.

Low school pride.

Lack of winning tradition.

Poor attendance at sporting events.

NT students wear UT/TT gear.

Fireworks to celebrate losses.

Reason for all is the same: ages of neglect.

[NTEdgex2]

I have to add that I could have gone to UT or any other school in Texas, but I chose NT and loved every minute of it! I know some high schoolers right now that have UNT first on their college list.

GMG!

[CMJ]

I also was accepted to a few schools(including out of state), but attended NT.

(Tho to be fair, my initial decision was based largely on affordability)

Edited October 30, 2009 by CMJ

[Green P1]

I grew up 45 minutes away and didn't know or care about UNT at all. I was top 10% and accepted into all the state schools I applied to. I came to UNT because they were the first acceptance letter in the mailbox(actually they were second to ACU.... that one was shredded, re-shredded, and never discussed with the parents.) I have very few regrets.

Edited October 30, 2009 by Green P1

[Rudy]

There have been many fundraisers aimed at Denton businesses or asked to show some sign of visible support for UNT athletics. Many will tell you they don't want to alienate the TWU crowd or can't give to both so they decline.

I got severe beatdown and tiredhead from hearing that crap over and over.

[Stan R]

I grew up 45 minutes away and didn't know or care about UNT at all. I was top 10% and accepted into all the state schools I applied to. I came to UNT because they were the first acceptance letter in the mailbox(actually they were second to ACU.... that one was shredded, re-shredded, and never discussed with the parents.) I have very few regrets.

I was accepted to Texas A&M (where's that puke icon again when you need it?). I also was accepted to Collin county community college and the court reporting school. Multiple times. Apparently I was on the who's who list for court reporting schools. SUCK IT PRINCETON!!!

[eulessismore]

There have been many fundraisers aimed at Denton businesses or asked to show some sign of visible support for UNT athletics. Many will tell you they don't want to alienate the TWU crowd or can't give to both so they decline.

Just sounds hokey. Not saying you're not telling the truth, but maybe they aren't. Maybe they just don't want to; I still think it comes down to us putting a more successful program together.

[NT80]

Just sounds hokey. Not saying you're not telling the truth, but maybe they aren't. Maybe they just don't want to; I still think it comes down to us putting a more successful program together.

It is an easy excuse for businesses that wouldn't happen if Denton was a one-college town. That's the main point, Denton is unique to most college towns, it has two colleges to support or define itself with and usually chooses neither.

[eulessismore]

It is an easy excuse for businesses that wouldn't happen if Denton was a one-college town. That's the main point, Denton is unique to most college towns, it has two colleges to support or define itself with and usually chooses neither.

Sorry, I've already told you it's not unique, using Winston-Salem North Carolina as an example. Now I'm also starting to wonder why that UNC, NC State, and Duke are all good in basketball.

[Green Buckeye]

Having attended NT and OSU, I feel like I've got a little perspective on this. The DFW area is such a different type of beast than a lot of the "college towns" y'all are talking about. Most of those towns have the type of fervent support for the local colleges and universities because it's literally all they've got besides the high schools. With the metroplex expanding up I-35E and Denton being literally absorbed into it, the city lacks that aspect. The commuters really don't help, either, but that's for later. Let me put it this way: Columbus, OH has 1.) Ohio State, 2.) the Blue Jackets, and 3.) the Columbus Crew. The Crew and CBJ have loyal fan bases and are respectable teams in their leagues, but neither come close to rivaling OSU's, which has been around for 130 years, with the hockey and soccer teams existing for a combined 25-30 years.

Columbus is a decent sized city, but it's not part of a sprawling metro area like Denton. Any local college (see TCU) has to compete with the Cowboys, Mavs, Rangers, Stars, UT, A&M, OU, TT, and LSU sports to an extent due to the nature of the population. Since most people aren't familiar with NT having traditions of ANY kind (and I mean WINNING traditions, or anything really consistent...shades of green anyone?), then there's less opportunity for people to identify with even the largest of public universities in the area...which NT is. NT isn't a branch campus of a larger university but it gets treated that way because nobody has a reason to care besides those associated with it.

My final point is that Denton and the campus area aren't built for the type of "college town" atmosphere that we all crave. The main business district for students - Fry St. - was razed. It's a shell of its former self, which is sad, and what's worse is that nobody's doing anything about it. There's next to nothing across the street from the dorms on Eagle Drive, except for the shopping center and Save-A-Lot. There's hardly anything to the east of campus, and to the west are neighborhoods and highway. To me, to have the type of feeling you want, there needs to be a reason for pedestrian traffic. Living in the DFW area, nobody really ever walks around, which in itself is vital to your "college towns". The new stadium will help significantly, but Denton HAS to develop the campus area with businesses for there to be any kind of progress.

[eulessismore]

I'm going to quit paying attention to this thread, the premise of which, in my opinion, is flawed, until we start hearing from some students who are living on campus now. College students always have friends attending school elsewhere, and they have that for comparing their own experience. Except for this one question; is Austin really the city we fantasize it to be? I thought it was wonderful when I would visit there in the late 60's; when I got out of the Army in the late 70's and checked it out for a potential place to attend college, the campus area was so crowded it seemed alienating to me. The last time I was there, about 8 years ago, about noon on Saturday, the traffic was as bad or worse than the DFW area during rush hour. Do people have to major in geography to think about ideal city size? Denton is growing towards that potential, but not fast enough to become the train wreck that other Texas cities have become. And if sharing Denton with TWU is a good excuse for local businesses not to get involved, I hope that it's not an excuse we trot out frequently enough to become known outside of this board. To me, something seems quite lame about it.