Must Win Games

gangrene · October 26, 2009

Ok, I've been about as patient as my personality will allow. I still like Dodge (he's a helluva nice guy) and I still really like the potential we have for next year but, damnit, if we don't win these three games, I'm going to have to give up following Mean Green football:

Western Kentucky - was blown out by MTSU 62-24

FIU - is 1-6 and was beaten by ASU 27-10

and one of these games needs to be a win: La-Monroe, Army or ASU.

I don't care how many HS coaches we have on our staff, how young the team is or who the QB is. I'm sick and tired of hearing excuses and I'm sick and tired of losing. It's way past time to put up or shut up. This is my ultimatum.

NM Green · October 26, 2009

Deaf ears brother - deaf ears!

None of those games are sure wins for us and after what I have seen, I believe a last minute loss might just be in order. It will be dramatic, devastating and expected.

Until I see a win I do not believe. I do not see near the urgency required for a program in this state.

I have not seen the Mean green win in YEARS! Many of us haven't seen a UNT win in YEARS! I can't even remember the last W I saw from my alma mater - I am numb!

If you have a fanbase who hasn't seen your squad win in almost half a decade - I had better seen blood scratches clawing - whatever it freaking takes to get a W. I would expect to see that this Saturday, but I don't have faith - I believe we will see a team try and if we win we feel good for a bit - if we lose we chalk it up to "we are getting close!" the script is very easy to read and it's a loser.

I want to see throw up on the field intensity this Saturday. Bring it! Finally bring it!

GMG

MDH · October 26, 2009

If we don't beat WKU I won't watch another game until there's a coaching change.

THOR · October 26, 2009

all of you that are leaving...have a good life. yes, the team needs to get better as does the coaching, but leaving this team and not supporting is exactly what they don't need. supporting your school isn't always easy...if you want that, go be a texas or "insert other school here" douche!

Will to Win · October 26, 2009

LOL

Try this for those of you who are hella pissed at not winning. Step out "emotionally", view UNT games in person at home games so you can count towards attendance. Be excited when we do something right like score a touchdown or go a series without a personal foul.

IF, and that is a big IF, we start shooting ourselves in the foot; the pain won't be as bad, you'll just see a team losing a game in dramatic fashion and you won't feel a thing.

It's a protective measure I have chosen becuase I will not be let down a again. I will wait until this team starts winning with regularity before I become "emotional invested" again.

NUMB

Mean Green 93-98 · October 26, 2009

So what happens if we lose out this year, but go 7-5 or 8-4 next year? Are you still going to be clamoring for a coaching change? Or are you going to jump on the bandwagon?

Right now, the team is largely playing to the best of expectations anyone had for this team back in spring. We all said, "Just give us competitive games this year," knowing that Bama and probably Troy would be exceptions.

This team needs North Texas students, alumni, and fans to be encouraging them, not kicking them when they're down or abandoning them.

KRAM1 · October 26, 2009

That's what I like to see...so-called Mean Green fans! Yep, give up on your school and your team just when they need you the most. That's the ticket...and some folks wonder why UNT just never seems to get "over the hump" when it comes to fan support, donations, etc. At least you folks are honest about being "fair weather supporters". I'll hand that to you and applaud your honesty.

UNT is not like the UT's, OU's, OSU's, etc. of the world. EACH and EVERY supporter is so very important. The "big guys" can lose some disgruntled fans...yes, they have them too, and there are 10 others waiting in line for their tickets...not so with UNT at this point. But, guess what? UNT will survive and probably the better for it, once the "bandwagon crowd" jumps off...it's too bad, however, as UNT needs all the support it can get.

I have a hard time figuring out why one's support for "their" school is contingent upon wins and losses. A mystery that will remain unsolved...I suppose.

You will be missed, but UNT will "carry on"...I guess we'll see you when the bandwagon rolls up with a few wins...don't worry, you'll find a seat with your name on it! See you then...in the meantime GO MEAN GREEN...I look forward to seeing a great crowd for the win over W Ky this Saturday.

GO MEAN GREEN!

gangrene · October 26, 2009

That's what I like to see...so-called Mean Green fans! Yep, give up on your school and your team just when they need you the most. That's the ticket...and some folks wonder why UNT just never seems to get "over the hump" when it comes to fan support, donations, etc. At least you folks are honest about being "fair weather supporters". I'll hand that to you and applaud your honesty.
UNT is not like the UT's, OU's, OSU's, etc. of the world. EACH and EVERY supporter is so very important. The "big guys" can lose some disgruntled fans...yes, they have them too, and there are 10 others waiting in line for their tickets...not so with UNT at this point. But, guess what? UNT will survive and probably the better for it, once the "bandwagon crowd" jumps off...it's too bad, however, as UNT needs all the support it can get.
I have a hard time figuring out why one's support for "their" school is contingent upon wins and losses. A mystery that will remain unsolved...I suppose.
You will be missed, but UNT will "carry on"...I guess we'll see you when the bandwagon rolls up with a few wins...don't worry, you'll find a seat with your name on it! See you then...in the meantime GO MEAN GREEN...I look forward to seeing a great crowd for the win over W Ky this Saturday.
GO MEAN GREEN!

You people crack me up...just sit back and take it. Hell, let's give Dodge 10 more years. If we win one more than we did the year before, we should be at 9 wins by year 10. Kram, I don't know how you've made it as a UNT fan as long as you have, but Kudos to you...I just don't have that kind of patience. My "support" is not necessarily dependent on wins and losses; I'll continue to provide financial support UNT. However, my time is entirely dependent on it. I am a college football fan, first and foremost, and I am not going to waste my time watching crappy football when there are so many other options out there.

If we were "like the UT's, OUs, etc of the world," Dodge would have never been hired and he sure as hell wouldn't have made it into the third season. (Again, just to clarify, I would love for Dodge to succeed here, but I am not so sure that is a realistic expectation.) If Dodge does eventually turn it around, I'll very gladly admit I was wrong.

For every "fair weather fan" like me (who spends way more time than he should being obsessed with UNT football, and often gets laughed at for it) there are likely 1,000 or more alumni/students that are thoroughly disgusted with and no longer follow UNT football as a result of the last 3-4 years. And don't even think about taking any football-knowledgeable friends or family to a UNT game - you'll never hear the end of it, and you certainly won't ever get them to return to a game.

With winning comes pride, it's hard to be proud of losing.

meangreanmick · October 26, 2009

You people crack me up...just sit back and take it.

Wrong - I think what he is saying is get up and support. That doesn't mean you like what is going on, but it does mean you will support the team no matter what.

And yes, if your support is contingent upon anything, then that is pretty much the definition of a fair weather fan.

KRAM1 · October 26, 2009

Wrong - I think what he is saying is get up and support. That doesn't mean you like what is going on, but it does mean you will support the team no matter what.
And yes, if your support is contingent upon anything, then that is pretty much the definition of a fair weather fan.

BINGO! We have a winner!

TIgreen01 · October 26, 2009

You guys realize we're basically talking only amongst the hard-core UNT fanbase here, right??

The guy(gangrene) says he'll continue to financially support UNT but isn't going to spend his time coming to games and he gets blasted?

Pay closer attention to NM Green's post....that guy is one of the most positive people you're ever going to find on this board (dating all the way back to when it was just Harry's board). I, personally, have been a season ticket holder since I graduated in May 2001 and didn't miss a home game for 3 years prior to that. I've missed 2 games in 11-12 years and those games just happen to be Dodge's ONLY home wins.....so it's been YEARS since I've seen a win. Then expand that out---most folks don't make every game like I (and most on this board) do...most folks have NEVER seen a Todd Dodge coached team win a SINGLE game! Then take that back to the team--the players and coaches who pour their lives into this program. I can't imagine how they must be dealing with it---It is very difficult to not eventually get numb to it.

Sorry guys, but when you have been losing as much as we have, for as long as we have, you are going to develop a losing culture around your program. That is very hard to break out of and usually requires drastic measures to do so. I, also, like Todd Dodge....but I REALLY liked Vic Trilli. From what I've seen of the 2 programs, the similarities are becoming more numerous than the differences.

Edited October 26, 2009 by TIgreen01

CaribbeanGreen · October 26, 2009

What's that, TI?

We hire a coach who finally has energy and positivity. He loves to talk up NT to anyone who will listen, and sure makes us all feel good at first. You can't find a nicer guy.

He knows TEXAS prep talent, and has inroads with TX high school coaches we've never had before. Suddenly he's recruiting players the likes of which we don't usually get a sniff of at NT. Recruiting classes are ranked higher than they've been in decades, and excitement builds.

His work and hiring is the primary reason for significant facility improvements we can all agree are long overdue and a large positive. He's very proud of these improvements, telling anyone who will listen how we're on the right track and to invest in the program.

He brings an exciting new offense, up tempo and high scoring, designed to utilize the ample talents of his prize recruits. The fan base is energized by this, relieved to be freed of the moderately successful but dull, rigid system of the previous coach.

He almost immediately begins playing more freshmen, these highly touted recruits there to implement his new system.

Problem is, he can't coach. Not a lick.

His first few years are arguably the worst in school history and possibly the worst in the country over that stretch.

The most prominent of his big time recruits, and effectively his team leader, seems to be disheartened by losses and style, and transfers after only two years to an in state Big XII power with no promise of playing time.

Others transfer as well, and many of his top recruits have problems with discipline or grades. Nothing serious, but issues here and there that illustrate a lack of discipline.

His offense scores points, and we're up in most scoring statistics from the previous coach. Problem is, it's sloppy, inefficient, turns the ball over, and fundamentally unsound.

Also, the team plays NO defense. None. It's routinely ranked at the bottom of the conference in every defensive statistic.

There are signs of progress, a late season big win here and there, but it never amounts to anything.

After four years, he's won less than 19% of his games, a staggering number. He never sniffs a sliver of the success the previous "uninspiring" coach did, nor the success of any coach before that.

This is like the Lincoln/Kennedy thing, folks. Zombie Vic Trilli is coaching our football team.

Edited October 26, 2009 by CaribbeanGreen

TIgreen01 · October 26, 2009

What's that, TI?
We hire a coach who finally has energy and positivity. He loves to talk up NT to anyone who will listen, and sure makes us all feel good at first. You can't find a nicer guy.
He knows TEXAS prep talent, and has inroads with TX high school coaches we've never had before. Suddenly he's recruiting players the likes of which we don't usually get a sniff of at NT. Recruiting classes are ranked higher than they've been in decades, and excitement builds.
His work and hiring is the primary reason for significant facility improvements we can all agree are long overdue and a large positive. He's very proud of these improvements, telling anyone who will listen how we're on the right track and to invest in the program.
He brings an exciting new offense, up tempo and high scoring, designed to utilize the ample talents of his prize recruits. The fan base is energized by this, relieved to be freed of the moderately successful but dull, rigid system of the previous coach.
He almost immediately begins playing more freshmen, these highly touted recruits there to implement his new system.
Problem is, he can't coach. Not a lick.
His first few years are arguably the worst in school history and possibly the worst in the country over that stretch.
The most prominent of his big time recruits, and effectively his team leader, seems to be disheartened by losses and style, and transfers after only two years to an in state Big XII power with no promise of playing time.
Others transfer as well, and many of his top recruits have problems with discipline or grades. Nothing serious, but issues here and there that illustrate a lack of discipline.
His offense scores points, and we're up in most scoring statistics from the previous coach. Problem is, it's sloppy, inefficient, turns the ball over, and fundamentally unsound.
Also, the team plays NO defense. None. It's routinely ranked at the bottom of the conference in every defensive statistic.
There are signs of progress, a late season big win here and there, but it never amounts to anything.
After four years, he's won less than 19% of his games, a staggering number. He never sniffs a sliver of the success the previous "uninspiring" coach did, nor the success of any coach before that.
This is like the Lincoln/Kennedy thing, folks. Zombie Vic Trilli is coaching our football team.

Outstanding post! Hard to ignore when you put it that way, huh?

Maybe our AD remembers this stretch by Trilli and finally sees the same thing we all do.....it's time to move on.

KRAM1 · October 26, 2009

Problem is, he can't coach. Not a lick.

And, your qualifications for evaluating coaching, other than arm chair Monday morning QB status, are exactly what?

TheTastyGreek · October 26, 2009

And, your qualifications for evaluating coaching, other than arm chair Monday morning QB status, are exactly what?

Despite being roughly 20-25 years younger than Dodge, he's only two D-1A wins behind him on the all-time list.

I'm not saying he'll ever catch up... I'm just saying that the gap is pretty damn small.

forevereagle · October 26, 2009

And, your qualifications for evaluating coaching, other than arm chair Monday morning QB status, are exactly what?

Wins and losses? That would support his theory.

CaribbeanGreen · October 26, 2009

And, your qualifications for evaluating coaching, other than arm chair Monday morning QB status, are exactly what?

Really, Kram? Really gonna use this one, not one hour after an entire thread devoted to its utter ridiculousness? You're better than that, my friend.

Seriously, I respect your fandom and admire what you do for the university we all love, but you know this is silliness. Of course I'm no more qualified to evaluate coaching than most anyone here. Neither are you or most anyone else. Are you honestly proposing that we only post on topics we can provide resume lines for? We'd all have about 2 posts total, and the world of message boards would be a post-apocalyptic wasteland (note to self: PROPOSE THIS IDEA!).

Would you have asked for credentials if I'd posted a "look how wonderful TD is" diatribe? We both know the answer to that.

Look, I respect your knowledge and all the NT athletics you've witnessed, so if you can tell me how Vic Trilli was a solid in-game tactitican and effective overall coach, I'd love to hear your reasons. I liked Vic, and really wanted him to succeed. He failed. Horribly. But, since you posted a baseless and snide challenge to my post, you obviously feel I reached this conclusion about Trilli in error, so let's hear it!

And that WAS about Trilli, btw - my whole post was about Trilli. I'm not advocating for anything. I want nothing but success here. I just find the striking similiarities between two coaches in two sports I've experienced first hand to be worth mentioning.

MeanMag · October 27, 2009

LOL
Try this for those of you who are hella pissed at not winning. Step out "emotionally", view UNT games in person at home games so you can count towards attendance. Be excited when we do something right like score a touchdown or go a series without a personal foul.
IF, and that is a big IF, we start shooting ourselves in the foot; the pain won't be as bad, you'll just see a team losing a game in dramatic fashion and you won't feel a thing.
It's a protective measure I have chosen becuase I will not be let down a again. I will wait until this team starts winning with regularity before I become "emotional invested" again.
NUMB

Hard not to get "emotionally invested" when you go into the 4th quarter with a lead any other team would be able to hold onto.

UNTFan23 · October 27, 2009

I would say WKY and Army are must wins. And then a win from ASU, FIU, or ULM.

I love your avatar.

akriesman · October 27, 2009

It's a what can you do for me now generation.

I was talking to a Texas Tech fan today. He said the Tech fans are calling for Leach's head already. Are you kidding ? The guy has overachieved at TT. Texas Tech is is almost a UNT clone stuck in a worse location than Denton (Lubbuck). They do have a much better conference. But, you can't expect them to compete on a regular basis with Texas and OU.

They want to fire a guy that has overachieved over the years, because they are not competing for a national title ? Good grief.

Our teams sucks right now. But, they are improving over the horrible year last year when we hit rock bottom. Give the staff one more year. 4 Years is all I am asking for. That is the norm for turning around a program.

untjim1995 · October 27, 2009

It's a what can you do for me now generation.
I was talking to a Texas Tech fan today. He said the Tech fans are calling for Leach's head already. Are you kidding ? The guy has overachieved at TT. Texas Tech is is almost a UNT clone stuck in a worse location than Denton (Lubbuck). They do have a much better conference. But, you can't expect them to compete on a regular basis with Texas and OU.
They want to fire a guy that has overachieved over the years, because they are not competing for a national title ? Good grief.
Our teams sucks right now. But, they are improving over the horrible year last year when we hit rock bottom. Give the staff one more year. 4 Years is all I am asking for. That is the norm for turning around a program.

Tech and UNT have a state that they share and they are both large public schools. After that, I see ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in common. You mention their conference is much better--when you have alumni that care and an administration tries to compete with UT, OU, etc., you get what they have. They have been very competitive with those schools, unlike another school that cannot compete at all with SBC teams. That location you talk about being so bad--well, it has allowed many traditional college students a chance to go away and have a true college experience away from home, which helped create a bond with the university and led to increased donations, unlike the commuters that dominated this school for decades. Not to mention that our location is so close to DFW, that decent conferences won't even look at adding us because the other universities in the Metroplex are already in them or the large alumni bases in DFW have it covered strongly. Lubbock might be a hole, but Tech has created an image that many HS kids like.

BTW,I like Dodge and agree he should get another year--not because he deserves it, but because we financially cannot take the hit.

gangrene · October 27, 2009

I would say WKY and Army are must wins. And then a win from ASU, FIU, or ULM.

Quite frankly, I don't really care who the three wins are against. I just picked FIU because they are currently 1-6 and appear to be more beatable than Army. The goal should be to win out, but that's not a realistic expectation. I think this team handled the close losses to Ohio and La-La very well but, unfortunately, I think the loss to FAU sent them over the edge...I know it did it for me. I hope I'm wrong, but you've got to imagine the thought of "here we go again" is going to pop into the heads of every player, coach and fan if we get a lead and let the other team back in it.

It's a what can you do for me now generation.
I was talking to a Texas Tech fan today. He said the Tech fans are calling for Leach's head already. Are you kidding ? The guy has overachieved at TT. Texas Tech is is almost a UNT clone stuck in a worse location than Denton (Lubbuck). They do have a much better conference. But, you can't expect them to compete on a regular basis with Texas and OU.
They want to fire a guy that has overachieved over the years, because they are not competing for a national title ? Good grief.
Our teams sucks right now. But, they are improving over the horrible year last year when we hit rock bottom. Give the staff one more year. 4 Years is all I am asking for. That is the norm for turning around a program.

Tech fans are basically insane. Instead of relishing in the best season they'll ever experience, they believed they should have been playing for the national championship. I just don't think that will ever happen for Texas Tech. When Leach does leave Tech, either voluntarily or by firing, Tech will return to the average team they've always been.

eulesseagle · October 27, 2009

What's that, TI?
We hire a coach who finally has energy and positivity. He loves to talk up NT to anyone who will listen, and sure makes us all feel good at first. You can't find a nicer guy.
He knows TEXAS prep talent, and has inroads with TX high school coaches we've never had before. Suddenly he's recruiting players the likes of which we don't usually get a sniff of at NT. Recruiting classes are ranked higher than they've been in decades, and excitement builds.
His work and hiring is the primary reason for significant facility improvements we can all agree are long overdue and a large positive. He's very proud of these improvements, telling anyone who will listen how we're on the right track and to invest in the program.
He brings an exciting new offense, up tempo and high scoring, designed to utilize the ample talents of his prize recruits. The fan base is energized by this, relieved to be freed of the moderately successful but dull, rigid system of the previous coach.
He almost immediately begins playing more freshmen, these highly touted recruits there to implement his new system.
Problem is, he can't coach. Not a lick.
His first few years are arguably the worst in school history and possibly the worst in the country over that stretch.
The most prominent of his big time recruits, and effectively his team leader, seems to be disheartened by losses and style, and transfers after only two years to an in state Big XII power with no promise of playing time.
Others transfer as well, and many of his top recruits have problems with discipline or grades. Nothing serious, but issues here and there that illustrate a lack of discipline.
His offense scores points, and we're up in most scoring statistics from the previous coach. Problem is, it's sloppy, inefficient, turns the ball over, and fundamentally unsound.
Also, the team plays NO defense. None. It's routinely ranked at the bottom of the conference in every defensive statistic.
There are signs of progress, a late season big win here and there, but it never amounts to anything.
After four years, he's won less than 19% of his games, a staggering number. He never sniffs a sliver of the success the previous "uninspiring" coach did, nor the success of any coach before that.
This is like the Lincoln/Kennedy thing, folks. Zombie Vic Trilli is coaching our football team.

whoa bubba.......

Coach Dodge has been here 2 1/2 years.....not four......it may seem like four to you and forty to others but it is only 2 1/2.

We all know what the problems were with grades and discipline. How many were Dodge's recruits vs. DD's recruits? You might take a couple of steps back on that statement.

Watching the games, in person, like I have for years IMHO the team is getting better the more we get into the season. Against Troy.....ONE turnover. Special Teams getting better, Another excellent punter, Running game is excellent....I guess because of the "O" line and the passing is getting better with our RS freshman qb and his JR. backup. Defensively??? they are getting better but not as fast as the offense. I think our "D" line and LB are really pretty good....the others.....well what can ya say.

NT has one of the best defensive coaches in the country with DeLoach. His defense did beat USC one year. This guy is good and he has only been here 1 1/2 years.....

the team is getting better and the ONLY friggin' way to tell is get your lazy butts in the bleachers instead of what is said on some blog or the stats at the end of the game.

gangrene · October 27, 2009

the team is getting better and the ONLY friggin' way to tell is get your lazy butts in the bleachers instead of what is said on some blog or the stats at the end of the game.

Wrong, the only true way to gauge a team's improvement is in the win column and, unfortunately, we're lacking in that category. I agree the team is improved but, at some point, that's got to translate to wins. They don't have bowl games for the most improved 1-11 teams.

Quoner · October 27, 2009

whoa bubba.......
Coach Dodge has been here 2 1/2 years.....not four......it may seem like four to you and forty to others but it is only 2 1/2.
We all know what the problems were with grades and discipline. How many were Dodge's recruits vs. DD's recruits? You might take a couple of steps back on that statement.
Watching the games, in person, like I have for years IMHO the team is getting better the more we get into the season. Against Troy.....ONE turnover. Special Teams getting better, Another excellent punter, Running game is excellent....I guess because of the "O" line and the passing is getting better with our RS freshman qb and his JR. backup. Defensively??? they are getting better but not as fast as the offense. I think our "D" line and LB are really pretty good....the others.....well what can ya say.
NT has one of the best defensive coaches in the country with DeLoach. His defense did beat USC one year. This guy is good and he has only been here 1 1/2 years.....
the team is getting better and the ONLY friggin' way to tell is get your lazy butts in the bleachers instead of what is said on some blog or the stats at the end of the game.

The only way to know the team is getting better is by getting your butt in the bleachers...

But here's some selective stats from the box score of a game I didn't attend!