I Have Just One Question

emmitt01 · October 25, 2009

Everyone wants to tslk about how "young" this team is, how we are "improving" and how we are stockpiling all of this talent. Let's say we accept all of this as true.

What good will any of it do if Todge still can't coach? Will Stratford or William Cole teach us not to let the play clock run down? Will a year of seasoning by Riley make us stop handing the ball to our backs 5 yards deep when we need 1 yard? Will the new stadium looming on the horizon help us stop taking timeouts only to come back with a play silly enough that it could have been called at the line of scrimmage? Will the fact that we can't afford to fire him motivate him to coach better with the lead? Which all-area recruit is gonna come in and teach the rest of the team to tackle since the responsibility clearly can't fall to the head coach? Maybe the increased attendance will distract the opposing d-coordinator from the fact that our playcalling doesn't include getting vertical and we sbandon the middle of the field.

Someone tell me which of Dodge's positives will magically fix his one glaring negative...he's a head COACH who just cant.

e-bone ver2.awesome · October 25, 2009

What about the defense?

emmitt01 · October 26, 2009

As I figured, there is no trite explanation for this one.

TheColonyEagle · October 26, 2009

...that was more than one question...

untcampbell · October 26, 2009

Too easy, TCE.

KRAM1 · October 26, 2009

I think Coach Dodge could win out and Emmitt would still be calling for his head and making comments like the ones above. I would imagine that every head football coach in the country...at every level...has heard from folks like Emmitt who claim they can't coach. This criticism, of course, from someone with absolutely no head coaching experience.

I think Dodge should start criticizing all the troopers in Texas...you know how they don't know what they are doing because there are so many unsolved crimes out there....just saying. You know, there might just be more to this "turn around" at UNT than meets the eye...but, at least we know where Emmitt is coming from in every post. I'm OK with that...just keep supporting the Mean Green!

Green P1 · October 26, 2009

I think Coach Dodge could win out and Emmitt would still be calling for his head and making comments like the ones above.

I don't believe one can or the other would.

SilverEagle · October 26, 2009

I think Coach Dodge could win out and Emmitt would still be calling for his head and making comments like the ones above. I would imagine that every head football coach in the country...at every level...has heard from folks like Emmitt who claim they can't coach. This criticism, of course, from someone with absolutely no head coaching experience.
I think Dodge should start criticizing all the troopers in Texas...you know how they don't know what they are doing because there are so many unsolved crimes out there....just saying. You know, there might just be more to this "turn around" at UNT than meets the eye...but, at least we know where Emmitt is coming from in every post. I'm OK with that...just keep supporting the Mean Green!

So tell me, where were you on the Dennis Parker firing?

KRAM1 · October 26, 2009

So tell me, where were you on the Dennis Parker firing?

Good question, SilverEagle...and, in all honesty, I cannot recall. I am sure I was not happy with the W's and L's, but was in all likely hood, still attending games and still cheering the Mean Green on....I also do not recall the length of Coach Parker's contract. Did he have a three year deal or was he fired in the middle of a longer contract? I really don't recall....I've had too much fun watching the Mean Green since then.

SilverEagle · October 26, 2009

Good question, SilverEagle...and, in all honesty, I cannot recall. I am sure I was not happy with the W's and L's, but was in all likely hood, still attending games and still cheering the Mean Green on....I also do not recall the length of Coach Parker's contract. Did he have a three year deal or was he fired in the middle of a longer contract? I really don't recall....I've had too much fun watching the Mean Green since then.

I don't know how long his contract was either, but I wasn't in favor of his firing....especially when "his guys" were the ones who Matt Simon took to a conference championship the next year.

But then, I wasn't in favor of Corkey Nelson being fired either. I just thought that his immediate boss needed to sit down with him and have a (as one of my program directors used to say) "come to Jesus" meeting with him about his bizarre behavior and giving him a chance to clean up his act. Because (as a coach) when he was good, he was very good.

eulessismore · October 26, 2009

I don't know how long his contract was either, but I wasn't in favor of his firing....especially when "his guys" were the ones who Matt Simon took to a conference championship the next year.
But then, I wasn't in favor of Corkey Nelson being fired either. I just thought that his immediate boss needed to sit down with him and have a (as one of my program directors used to say) "come to Jesus" meeting with him about his bizarre behavior and giving him a chance to clean up his act. Because (as a coach) when he was good, he was very good.

So, now I guess we'll all have to wonder what that "bizarre behavior" was...

VideoEagle · October 26, 2009

I don't know how long his contract was either, but I wasn't in favor of his firing....especially when "his guys" were the ones who Matt Simon took to a conference championship the next year.
But then, I wasn't in favor of Corkey Nelson being fired either. I just thought that his immediate boss needed to sit down with him and have a (as one of my program directors used to say) "come to Jesus" meeting with him about his bizarre behavior and giving him a chance to clean up his act. Because (as a coach) when he was good, he was very good.

I would have given Dennis another year at the time. But, like you, I would not have fired Nelson either. It appears that most of the time when we fire a coach, it takes the new coach two or three years to start to win and often four years till they win with any consistency. The exception to this is when the fired coach had a bunch of plays just becoming juniors and seniors who had worked together for years. That was the case when Matt Simon came in and used Parker's players to have his best season.

When you fire a coach after two or three losing seasons, you can pretty much guarantee the team is going to have at least two and probably three and maybe four more losing seasons while the new coach gets established. Sometimes schools get lucky, but not usually. We were lucky with Fry. Anyone remember how UTEP was going to set the football world on fire with Mike Price? There are no guarantees and that is why an AD is careful about making a coaching change.

BeanCounterGrad'03 · October 26, 2009

I would have given Dennis another year at the time. But, like you, I would not have fired Nelson either. It appears that most of the time when we fire a coach, it takes the new coach two or three years to start to win and often four years till they win with any consistency. The exception to this is when the fired coach had a bunch of plays just becoming juniors and seniors who had worked together for years. That was the case when Matt Simon came in and used Parker's players to have his best season.
When you fire a coach after two or three losing seasons, you can pretty much guarantee the team is going to have at least two and probably three and maybe four more losing seasons while the new coach gets established. Sometimes schools get lucky, but not usually. We were lucky with Fry. Anyone remember how UTEP was going to set the football world on fire with Mike Price? There are no guarantees and that is why an AD is careful about making a coaching change.

Great points...this is why I'm "slow to anger" with the results we have seen from Dodge so far. I believe that's why we will definitely see him back for at least one more year. Now, here's to hoping with all hope that he turns it fully around!

gangrene · October 26, 2009

Great points...this is why I'm "slow to anger" with the results we have seen from Dodge so far. I believe that's why we will definitely see him back for at least one more year. Now, here's to hoping with all hope that he turns it fully around!

I'm in this boat too. While I am deeply troubled with a 4-27+ record over three years, I am very concerned about making a change. What coach could we realistically expect to take on the challenge of turning around one of the worst FBS schools for one of the worst FBS salaries? The only change I am 100% positive needs to occur is in the W column. I'm just as afraid of who Dodge's replacement would be as I am of continuing this journey with Dodge.

Eagle1855 · October 26, 2009

I'm in this boat too. While I am deeply troubled with a 4-27+ record over three years, I am very concerned about making a change. What coach could we realistically expect to take on the challenge of turning around one of the worst FBS schools for one of the worst FBS salaries?

I don't know, why don't we ask Rice?

KRAM1 · October 26, 2009

I'm in this boat too. While I am deeply troubled with a 4-27+ record over three years, I am very concerned about making a change. What coach could we realistically expect to take on the challenge of turning around one of the worst FBS schools for one of the worst FBS salaries? The only change I am 100% positive needs to occur is in the W column. I'm just as afraid of who Dodge's replacement would be as I am of continuing this journey with Dodge.

Am I wrong in thinking in another post you just said you were "done with the program" until the wins start coming...or something like that? If you are "done", why worry? I think the "give Dodge another year" is by far the best and most prudent course of action here for the benefit of UNT's program. I just think it takes time to turn a program around...heck, even Duke is beginning to win some football games and I recall when B. Bowden first got to Fla. state. Fla. State was "dog meat"...and it took a few years. Anyone remember Miami before Capt. kangaroo got there? No, I am not saying UNT will be a Fla. State or a Miami anytime soon...just point out that like Rice and Duke and countless others in all divisions, it can take some time and constantly changing coaches just might make matters worse. And, yes, matters could be worse...WAY WORSE.

You know, Good things ARE happening at UNT these days...just look around with an open "eye" and you'll find lots to like across the university. If you have "tunnel vision" and equate everything about UNT and pin your support only on the football team's record, well, you will be like some here...oh, so sad and pessimistic (not realistic) day in and day out.

GO MEAN GREEN! See you at Fouts Saturday...it will be a great day to be part of the Mean Green Nation. Did I mention the great fun at tailgating????

gangrene · October 26, 2009

Am I wrong in thinking in another post you just said you were "done with the program" until the wins start coming...or something like that?

No, that's not quite an accurate account of what I said. I said that 3 more wins this season were necessary for me to continue following UNT football to the degree that I have done in the past. I clearly stated that I would continue to provide financial support and that I wish nothing but success for coach Dodge and team. However, for me to continue to have interest in watching UNT football, I expect to start seeing some wins. Otherwise, I will support investigating any and all options that could bring a winnning tradition to UNT football. Tailgating is nice, but victory tastes so much better than any grilled meat.

good_ken · October 26, 2009

I think Coach Dodge could win out and Emmitt would still be calling for his head and making comments like the ones above. I would imagine that every head football coach in the country...at every level...has heard from folks like Emmitt who claim they can't coach. This criticism, of course, from someone with absolutely no head coaching experience.
I think Dodge should start criticizing all the troopers in Texas...you know how they don't know what they are doing because there are so many unsolved crimes out there....just saying. You know, there might just be more to this "turn around" at UNT than meets the eye...but, at least we know where Emmitt is coming from in every post. I'm OK with that...just keep supporting the Mean Green!

Emmitt was one of the truly die hards who survived rooting for a Vic Trilli coached basketball team. I am pretty sure that he just wants UNT to win...its just that TD ain't doing that.

GoMeanGreen1999 · October 27, 2009

Am I wrong in thinking in another post you just said you were "done with the program" until the wins start coming...or something like that? If you are "done", why worry? I think the "give Dodge another year" is by far the best and most prudent course of action here for the benefit of UNT's program. I just think it takes time to turn a program around...heck, even Duke is beginning to win some football games and I recall when B. Bowden first got to Fla. state. Fla. State was "dog meat"...and it took a few years. Anyone remember Miami before Capt. kangaroo got there? No, I am not saying UNT will be a Fla. State or a Miami anytime soon...just point out that like Rice and Duke and countless others in all divisions, it can take some time and constantly changing coaches just might make matters worse. And, yes, matters could be worse...WAY WORSE.
You know, Good things ARE happening at UNT these days...just look around with an open "eye" and you'll find lots to like across the university. If you have "tunnel vision" and equate everything about UNT and pin your support only on the football team's record, well, you will be like some here...oh, so sad and pessimistic (not realistic) day in and day out.
GO MEAN GREEN! See you at Fouts Saturday...it will be a great day to be part of the Mean Green Nation. Did I mention the great fun at tailgating????

KRAM - two questions for you? After watching this team go 4-27 where do you draw the line? At what point have you seen enough to know that it is not working?

VideoEagle · October 27, 2009

At what point have you seen enough to know that it is not working?

I think that distills the whole question. Where do you draw the line? I was certain Dickey needed to go, but I would have been very hesitant to fire him during the season. I understand there were special circumstances that necessitated that but I still would have hesitated.

The whole "a high school coach" is why we were terrible the first year after DD is totally bogus. To quote Matt Simon, who I really didn't care for, "You HAVE to have some guys." After DD left, we did not "have some guys." Certainly not enough to win at the 1A level and trying to argue against that is simply silly. Even Hayden Fry could not have won with what was left - there were a few great players, but not enough to field a 1A team.

Last year, the drug charges and other distractions became meant the off season became addition by subtraction. North Texas is clearly a much, much better team this year. But as Dodge said either right before or right after the first game, "next year is when we will make some noise." And some on this board tried to make that out to be a negative!

There are a lot of Todd Dodge haters out here on this board. And I've heard they tend to have two, three or four accounts so they will appear to be even greater in number than they really are! I suggest people here talk honestly to season ticket holders, especially those in section E, who don't post here. You will quickly find the majority are not ready to give up, although all are extremely frustrated. That's because most recognize firing Dodge at the end of the season might mean a winning season next year since he has built the base of a winning team, but virtually guarantees two or more losing seasons after that while the new coach starts over.

And for those who really want to not be bombarded with the continuous negativity of a few posters, there is an "ignore" feature on this board. I only use it for three or four posters who's opinions I no longer find worth the effort of reading. Everyone else might write something with which I disagree, but they do not seem to fall into the "Todd Dodge slept with my wife and then his son stole my son's girlfriend" group.

Ibleedgreen · October 27, 2009

I don't sit in Section E, but I am not ready to give up.

VideoEagle · October 27, 2009

I don't sit in Section E, but I am not ready to give up.

Thanks. You're not alone by any means!

meangreanmick · October 27, 2009

I think most coaches will tell you, great players make coaches look like a genius. Less talented players make coaches look not so good. So, yes. Stockpiling a bunch of talent would improve our coaching.

Everyone wants to tslk about how "young" this team is, how we are "improving" and how we are stockpiling all of this talent. Let's say we accept all of this as true.
What good will any of it do if Todge still can't coach? Will Stratford or William Cole teach us not to let the play clock run down? Will a year of seasoning by Riley make us stop handing the ball to our backs 5 yards deep when we need 1 yard? Will the new stadium looming on the horizon help us stop taking timeouts only to come back with a play silly enough that it could have been called at the line of scrimmage? Will the fact that we can't afford to fire him motivate him to coach better with the lead? Which all-area recruit is gonna come in and teach the rest of the team to tackle since the responsibility clearly can't fall to the head coach? Maybe the increased attendance will distract the opposing d-coordinator from the fact that our playcalling doesn't include getting vertical and we sbandon the middle of the field.
Someone tell me which of Dodge's positives will magically fix his one glaring negative...he's a head COACH who just cant.

GoMeanGreen1999 · October 27, 2009

I think that distills the whole question. Where do you draw the line? I was certain Dickey needed to go, but I would have been very hesitant to fire him during the season. I understand there were special circumstances that necessitated that but I still would have hesitated.
The whole "a high school coach" is why we were terrible the first year after DD is totally bogus. To quote Matt Simon, who I really didn't care for, "You HAVE to have some guys." After DD left, we did not "have some guys." Certainly not enough to win at the 1A level and trying to argue against that is simply silly. Even Hayden Fry could not have won with what was left - there were a few great players, but not enough to field a 1A team.
Last year, the drug charges and other distractions became meant the off season became addition by subtraction. North Texas is clearly a much, much better team this year. But as Dodge said either right before or right after the first game, "next year is when we will make some noise." And some on this board tried to make that out to be a negative!
There are a lot of Todd Dodge haters out here on this board. And I've heard they tend to have two, three or four accounts so they will appear to be even greater in number than they really are! I suggest people here talk honestly to season ticket holders, especially those in section E, who don't post here. You will quickly find the majority are not ready to give up, although all are extremely frustrated. That's because most recognize firing Dodge at the end of the season might mean a winning season next year since he has built the base of a winning team, but virtually guarantees two or more losing seasons after that while the new coach starts over.
And for those who really want to not be bombarded with the continuous negativity of a few posters, there is an "ignore" feature on this board. I only use it for three or four posters who's opinions I no longer find worth the effort of reading. Everyone else might write something with which I disagree, but they do not seem to fall into the "Todd Dodge slept with my wife and then his son stole my son's girlfriend" group.

I honestly don't think you remove anyone during the season. I was more or less asking after what season have you seen enough to know it is not working. I believe if you give this coaching staff a fourth year and in that fourth year they win as many as 4 games after never winning more than 2 in any other season, that you give them a fifth year.

PHSCoach · October 27, 2009

The whole "a high school coach" is why we were terrible the first year after DD is totally bogus. To quote Matt Simon, who I really didn't care for, "You HAVE to have some guys." After DD left, we did not "have some guys." Certainly not enough to win at the 1A level and trying to argue against that is simply silly. Even Hayden Fry could not have won with what was left - there were a few great players, but not enough to field a 1A team.

Sorry dude

I would take the 11 def players that were comming back VS anything that TD has recruited,

On off lets see we had 3 good receivers, one of the best running backs in school history, two off linemen that are still playing

So get off this BS about what he had to have some guys......

His guys are now Jr. and I see very little out of them......

If dumb and dumber knew how to coach you would have some good players but they ran them off.........

Edited October 27, 2009 by PHSCoach