Constructive Criticism

[TIgreen01]

Speaking of coaching salaries: what is being done to make sure we keep this defensive staff together? We've already seen what happens when we let good coaches go (after the mass exodus of assistants after 2002-03).

[greenminer]

The offense we run needs a mobile QB.

If we get a new OC next year and scrap the current scheme, then I would be all for getting that guy that camps in the back, goes through the reads and flings it around.

Personally, I am kind of pumped to see how the long ball could open this offense up. We already saw the added dimension the zone read did against Ball State. Unfortunately, so has every opponent on our schedule now; they're making the adjustments and stacking the line daring us to go deep.

Can't wait to see Cole and Stradford.

Also, I do not think this was our problem against LaLa.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Two games 6 interceptions and a fumble. Mack Brown knew Riley was no D-1 QB @ 5' 10". He is an athlete much better suited to be a wide receiver. Whether you like it or not Tune is 6" 2" with one interception in six quarters of play against the best two teams played to date. He is not a runner but with the depth @ running back and Riley @ his correct position of wide receiver we give the offense a much better chance of success. Riley will not grow and become able to see downfield and he will never have Tune's arm strength. Do what is best for him and the team and get him out of the QB role now. After Hawkins of CU threw a pick 6 @ Austin his dad benched him permanently. Riley needs to play, but it's time TD realizes he's out of position @ QB in D-1.

I think Coach Hawkins may finally be worried about his job. People say his buyout is too high, but that's a joke. CU has plenty of monied alums. If SMU cann come up with $10 million to hire June Jones, CU alumn can come up with the $3 million is will take to buyout Hawkins.

The worst part is for the alums. You expect your school to hire a guy in who has the programs best interest at heart. Then, you got a guy like Hawkins who wouldn't pull his son until long after it was evident that he couldn't play consistently enough to make CU competitive. It's not really right to try out your "Doug Flutie" experiment on the alumni. Hawkins could come or go, but the alumni will always be alumni of the school.

I've said this before, and I'll repeat it...it's also not fair to the other players and their families. Players only have a certain number of years to be eligible, and the NCAA is tight on transferring. And, the players families spend alot of time and money traveling to see the team play. So, it is the duty of the head coach to recruit the best players at all positions and field a competitive team.

That's it. That's a coach's job. It's not to make sure his son gets playing time. At Colorado it was blatant. A month ago, Toledo was beating CU by about 30 with four minutes left in the game, and Hawkins left his son in there for two meaningless scoring drives. His son played every snap of the game despite throwing two fourth quarter interceptions that helped Toledo make the game a rout. All the while, the second team QB is standing on the sideline.

That's just garbage. We've got a different situation here. We've only been blown out in one and a half games. And, although it's the defense and special teams that are keeping us in the games, Coach Dodge really has no other choice but to stick with son at QB. He simply hasn't recruited or managed the position so that there is a viable backup. It's his own fault.

The problem with Nathan Tune is that the coaching staff doesn't put in the whole playbook for him because he can't run. This idiot high school offense has to have a running quarterback. Fine. But, teams have already figured out that we aren't going long - or even medium - in the passing game.

Anyway, I don't believe that this staff has the ability to craft a game around Nathan Tune's ability to throw it down field. They can barely put a game plan together for what they have out there now. When they had Louisiana on the ropes Saturday night, the offense couldn't throw the final knockout punch.

With 3:51 left in the third quarter, we were up 34-24. Then, this is the offense:

-3 plays, 2 yards: 2 rushes, 1 incomplete pass, 1 delay of game penalty

-3 plays, -11 yards: 2 rushes, 1 illegal forward pass penalty...the play where Riley threw the ball twice

-8 plays, 27 yards: 5 rushes, 3 passes, 1 fumble that we recovered, 1 timeout called by us (!) with 2:46 left on the clock

-1 play, 0 yards, 1 interception thrown...14 yards down the field with about 10 seconds left...71 yards away from the end zone with 0:27 seconds and two time outs left when we took possession needing a touchdown to win.

That's 15 plays, 18 yards, 1 fumble, two penalties - both on the QB, and 1 interception.

This after three years of this offense...and, as we were told over and over again before the season, after this quarterback "grew up" in the system.

Baloney.

The bottom line is, we are stuck with what we have because of the pieces that are now in place. But, as I said at the beginning, if this thing keeps cratering in 2009, there have got to be some real, tangible changes in the offseason to the offense coaching staff the way there were to the defense and special teams following 2007 and 2008.

And, as Shelton Gandy did last year in finding OLs and this year in finding DLs and WRs, at least one JUCO QB has to be found who can throw the ball down the field to compete for the starting job...and a prep QB or two as well to groom for the future.

I had a Whataburger double meat, double cheese with a big root beer and it was delicious, yo.

[SilverEagle]

UNT has never sought the best, just the cheapest. I don't see that changing--a D-1 assistant for H/C will cost a minimum of $800K. We will go with the $250K HS coach because of the $$$$$. You either pay a la SMU or you don't hunt with the pack. No road wins in the SBC in 2.5 years is what $250K buys. Pay competitively or get back to 1-AA where your salaries are now. Otherwise you are just a D-1 pretender and not even an SBC contender!!!!!!!!

Dallas, personally I thought that 250K was too high for a former HS coach. I don't agree about the $800K. I wonder what Don Carthel makes out at WT A&M? How about the coach at Abilene Christian?

I've always said that you bring in the young up-and-coming coach (or in Carthels case, the older-but-revitalized coach) who will end up getting hired away from you. Then you hire the next up and coming coach who's profile is the same as the previous one.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

At this point, we don't need a new head coach, we need two more college assistants in the place of the two remaining high school coaches we have on staff. The parts of the team coached by college guys are doing well - offensive line, running backs, defensive line, linebackers, secondary, special teams.

It's taken Dodge this long, surely he can see where the final pieces to the puzzle.

Surely?

Also, with the way the running backs have performed, the way to JUCOs have performed, and the way the special teams has improved, can we go ahead and say that Shelton Gandy is the Coach of the Year on our staff?

[SUMG]

At this point, we don't need a new head coach, we need two more college assistants in the place of the two remaining high school coaches we have on staff. The parts of the team coached by college guys are doing well - offensive line, running backs, defensive line, linebackers, secondary, special teams.

It's taken Dodge this long, surely he can see where the final pieces to the puzzle.

Surely?

Also, with the way the running backs have performed, the way to JUCOs have performed, and the way the special teams has improved, can we go ahead and say that Shelton Gandy is the Coach of the Year on our staff?

So you think we should get rid of Clayton George? He only produced the all time leading receiver in UNT history. (a guy who was an uncelebrated walk-on....until Coach George got here).

Plus, going into this season....we wondered if we would have any WRs come to the forefront. I'd say that our WRs have been a pleasant surprise. Also, Clayton George is why we have Lance Dunbar. Think Lance might consider transferring if we got rid of his high school coach? I don't know.

Thanks Lonnie.....more expertise from a guy who lives in Frisco, but doesn't go to games.

[gangrene]

At this point, we don't need a new head coach, we need two more college assistants in the place of the two remaining high school coaches we have on staff. The parts of the team coached by college guys are doing well - offensive line, running backs, defensive line, linebackers, secondary, special teams.

So, at what point in time do the former high school coaches become college coaches? If another school chooses to hire one of our "high school coaches" are they hiring a high school coach or a "college guy"? Art Briles coached high school football for 21 years...is he a high school guy or a college guy? Same question regarding Todd Graham, who coached HS ball for 6 seasons. I'm just curious as to when one officially loses the high school association.

[UNTLifer]

Yes Gailey brought him in, but the rest is opinion. Putting the blame on Ford and George for Saturday's game is ridiculous.

[TIgreen01]

I think Coach Hawkins may finally be worried about his job. People say his buyout is too high, but that's a joke. CU has plenty of monied alums. If SMU cann come up with $10 million to hire June Jones, CU alumn can come up with the $3 million is will take to buyout Hawkins.

The worst part is for the alums. You expect your school to hire a guy in who has the programs best interest at heart. Then, you got a guy like Hawkins who wouldn't pull his son until long after it was evident that he couldn't play consistently enough to make CU competitive. It's not really right to try out your "Doug Flutie" experiment on the alumni. Hawkins could come or go, but the alumni will always be alumni of the school.

I've said this before, and I'll repeat it...it's also not fair to the other players and their families. Players only have a certain number of years to be eligible, and the NCAA is tight on transferring. And, the players families spend alot of time and money traveling to see the team play. So, it is the duty of the head coach to recruit the best players at all positions and field a competitive team.

That's it. That's a coach's job. It's not to make sure his son gets playing time. At Colorado it was blatant. A month ago, Toledo was beating CU by about 30 with four minutes left in the game, and Hawkins left his son in there for two meaningless scoring drives. His son played every snap of the game despite throwing two fourth quarter interceptions that helped Toledo make the game a rout. All the while, the second team QB is standing on the sideline.

That's just garbage. We've got a different situation here. We've only been blown out in one and a half games. And, although it's the defense and special teams that are keeping us in the games, Coach Dodge really has no other choice but to stick with son at QB. He simply hasn't recruited or managed the position so that there is a viable backup. It's his own fault.

The problem with Nathan Tune is that the coaching staff doesn't put in the whole playbook for him because he can't run. This idiot high school offense has to have a running quarterback. Fine. But, teams have already figured out that we aren't going long - or even medium - in the passing game.

Anyway, I don't believe that this staff has the ability to craft a game around Nathan Tune's ability to throw it down field. They can barely put a game plan together for what they have out there now. When they had Louisiana on the ropes Saturday night, the offense couldn't throw the final knockout punch.

With 3:51 left in the third quarter, we were up 34-24. Then, this is the offense:

-3 plays, 2 yards: 2 rushes, 1 incomplete pass, 1 delay of game penalty

-3 plays, -11 yards: 2 rushes, 1 illegal forward pass penalty...the play where Riley threw the ball twice

-8 plays, 27 yards: 5 rushes, 3 passes, 1 fumble that we recovered, 1 timeout called by us (!) with 2:46 left on the clock

-1 play, 0 yards, 1 interception thrown...14 yards down the field with about 10 seconds left...71 yards away from the end zone with 0:27 seconds and two time outs left when we took possession needing a touchdown to win.

That's 15 plays, 18 yards, 1 fumble, two penalties - both on the QB, and 1 interception.

This after three years of this offense...and, as we were told over and over again before the season, after this quarterback "grew up" in the system.

Baloney.

The bottom line is, we are stuck with what we have because of the pieces that are now in place. But, as I said at the beginning, if this thing keeps cratering in 2009, there have got to be some real, tangible changes in the offseason to the offense coaching staff the way there were to the defense and special teams following 2007 and 2008.

And, as Shelton Gandy did last year in finding OLs and this year in finding DLs and WRs, at least one JUCO QB has to be found who can throw the ball down the field to compete for the starting job...and a prep QB or two as well to groom for the future.

I had a Whataburger double meat, double cheese with a big root beer and it was delicious, yo.

Comparing Riley Dodge to Cody Hawkins is really, REALLY, getting old. The 2 are not in the same ballpark. Even as a RSFreshman Riley is head and shoulders above Cody Hawkins---no offense to Cody but it's obvious that he doesn't have the team behind him and doesn't possess the leadership qualities that Riley does.

Maybe that opinion makes me a fanboy...but I am not willing to just dog the shit out of our freshman QB this early in his career. Has he made some boneheaded plays? Yes. Has he made some miraculous plays? Yep. More often than not he plays with a level head and has a knack for moving the sticks. I think the future is bright with Riley playing QB.

[greenminer]

Lonnie, how about another perspective (not intending to counter-point here, rather food for thought).

What about the coach's situation? If the dad goes into coaching, is it really in an AD's best interest to hold it against him that he has a son tagging along? Let's up the ante and say Dodge was a college HC or assistant on a staff with a 79-1 record. What's the call at that point?

I just don't know if I am on board stifling a guy's "pursuit of success" (to quote Calipari) just because he has a kid who is about to play for him. And we've got a kid who - regardless of how he plays out at his position - is a serious athlete relative to the Belt and can help put us in position to win. You can make it clear during interview that you're hiring a coach to win and not to play loving dad, but you can't go so far as encouraging him to sway his son to another school. At least, not us.

In the end, the coach is being hired to win. But your points "build" this environment where a coaching dad has no opportunity to move up the ladder.

Edited October 14, 2009 by greenminer

[FirefightnRick]

Casey Fitzgerald had 5 catches combined during his first two years here. For both seasons, in '05 and '06 he was the 9th leading reciever and 7th respectively on the team. Brandon Jackson ranked 2nd for both of those seasons. The following year('07) under Dodge and George Fitz led the team and ranked near the top in the nation with 111 receptions, with B Jax again finishing 2nd with 79. There's absolutely no way such a large jump in "Produce"-tion happens without Dodge and George seeing something special in him that the previous staff did not? In fact he was a walk on working at What-A-Burger on University Drive at the time. Had they never "found" him among about 10 other walk-on's and ship recievers that spring and given him his first scholarship who knows if he even would have been able to continue to play for us in the first place?

Rick

[eulesseagle]

Vince Lombardi was a high school coach & evidently the experience really did not hurt him when he moved up.

http://www.vincelombardi.com/about/facts.htm

_______

edit: once NT starts filling the stands with 40k+ per game and get something other than big beer money donors to the athletic fund then NT is just what it is....NT. some big beer money donors at NT probably could not get 10 yard season tickets at some of the larger BCS football games. just accept the truth and as agent mulder said....."the truth is out there."

Edited October 14, 2009 by eulesseagle

[greenminer]

Vince Lombardi was a high school coach & evidently the experience really did not hurt him when he moved up.

http://www.vincelombardi.com/about/facts.htm

_______

edit: once NT starts filling the stands with 40k+ per game and get something other than big beer money donors to the athletic fund then NT is just what it is....NT. some big beer money donors at NT probably could not get 10 yard season tickets at some of the larger BCS football games. just accept the truth and as agent mulder said....."the truth is out there."

I am not sure where your point stands in this topic?

Lombardi never coached his son.

He spent almost 20 years as an assistant to some of the greatest football minds in college during the early part of the century. He entered the NFL at 41 as an assistant and spent 4 years there before taking the HC position.

[greenblooded43]

For better or worse, we're stuck with Todd Dodge for the remainder of this season. We're probably stuck with him for 2010 as well.

Many of us said before the season that the defense and special teams would be the saving grace of this team in 2009, if there was to be any saving at all. For the most part, that has been (predictably) true. But, even with the mistakes they made on Saturday, we'd have still won if the offense wasn't such a crapshoot!

All the offense needs is some real direction. I know many of you are emotionally tied to the high school guys that Todd Dodge brought with him, as well as to his son. But, based on what is happening, you have to be realistic. The defense and special teams have gotten markedly better under experienced coaching. The offense would do the same with experience leadership; and, we already have those parts on board.

We have SMU talk on the message board today. What is it that is different about SMU and June Jones is his second year that is different than Todd Dodge last year? Well, honestly, it's the overall experience of the coaching staff. It's that way everywhere, fellas.

Bo Levi Mitchell ain't that great. But, he's got coaches on his side of the ball that have the whole unit ready. They've taken "another coach's players" and made them successful in their scheme. Yes, it can be done. This has been talked to death for the past two years in countless threads - new coaches can win immediately with "other people's players."

Todd Dodge needed to take Naughty By Nature's advice and be O.P.P. hip from the very start. But, he didn't...and he wasn't. June Jones is down with O.P.P. and is doing well with it...just like the countless examples of others before (Mack at Texas, Stoops at OU, Kragthorpe at Tulsa, Graham at Rice, etc., etc., etc.).

Those of us who have talked about having high school coaches being a detriment have long been labeled "negative nancies" and other such garbage. But, the truth is the truth. We are going to have about the same talent as every other Sun Belt school no matter who the head coach is. The difference is what happens once those guys are on campus. If they are to develop at all, they have to have coaches who know how to do it.

Football up here simply isn't the same as football at the high school level. The same as NFL football isn't the same as football down here in college. Todd Dodge has got to see it by now. He's drizzled off a high school coach every offseason so far. This year he needs to drizzle off two.

If I were Todd Dodge, these would be my offseason moves:

(1) Ford and George, gone

(2) Move Chuck Peterson back to offensive side of the ball, where he spent 17 years at Air Force as its receivers coach, then QB coach and offensive coordinator. Give him the title, co-offensive coordinator/pass game coordinator

(3) Elevate Spencer Leftwich to co-offensive coordinator/run game coordinator

(4) Elevate Gary DeLoach to full assitant head coach, and give him and Mike Nelson co-defensive coordinator roles

(5) Elevate Shelton Gandy, our best recruiter, to recruiting coordinator, freeing up Peterson who will have more duties already as Pass Game OC.

(6) Elevate Carlton Buckels to secondary coach

(7) Hire a safeties coach

(8) Hire a receivers coach

(9) Sign a JUCO QB with height, size and a long ball arm to compete immediately for the starting QB job

(10) Sign a prep QB with height, size and a long ball arm to compete immediately for the starting QB job

(11) Move Riley to back-up QB/WR ala Ryan Tannehill at Texas A&M

Why move Peterson? Peterson's strengths and experience are not on the defensive side of the ball. We're five games into 2009 and only have two interceptions - both by the same player, Royce Hill...a cornerback under the charge of Carlton Buckels. That isn't much better than the past two seasons. Put Peterson back in his natural coaching position. He's got a ton more experience coordinating offenses and developing QBs and WRs at this level...and lot more than George, Ford, and Dodge combined. Put it to use.

Swallow your pride and go look at how many interceptions SMU has this year. I'll save you the time: through five games they've got 13...10 by the secondary. They are coached by Derrick Odum, who coached safeties at Utah before June Jones hired him. His best pupil at Utah - current San Diego Charger Eric Weddle. Odum was also secondary coach for Art Briles at Houston in 2003 and 2004, before going back to coach at his alma mater, Utah.

Our front seven is doing well under Nelson and Deloach. The secondary is okay. It would do better with Buckels in charge with an experienced safeties coach helping.

The coaching moves shouldn't bust the budget because you are hiring in position coaches, not coordinators. You lose two and hire two, while putting the rest where they belong. Getting a bona fide trigger man at QB would back off opposing defenses for good, every game.

If Todd Dodge does all eleven of those things, I personally guarantee that North Texas will beat Kansas State next year as well as Army and Rice, and will hang with Clemson the entire game. And, I will also guarantee that if he makes no changes at all to his coaching staff, and doesn't have a real difference maker at QB in 2010, we could easily be 0-4 against a very favorable out of conference schedule.

Of course...these changes would mean Todd Dodge swallowing his pride as well. If he can do that, the biggest learning curve of all will have been attained...you can't be cowboy in 21st century college football.

I think all suggestions are ridiculous. Your college coaches on staff are not faring that much better. Wake up!!! We are still giving up to many points and yardage. Of course the DC, Says its the turnovers because of the field position thats why? Another excuse !!! Our DC is over his head with the offensive schemes in this league. Also, New young guys doing good and same old players with losing experience are still bad. (Personal fouls, missing blocking assignments, and missing tackles) but, the great college coaches we have keep putting them in. WoW. Some how there is no responsiblity for their actions because a brother,cousin, dad or grand father played here or knows a coach. You say thats college coaching.

You will lose with that recipe. I would play the whole team until I found someone to do the job. Your losing anyway!!

[greenminer]

I think all suggestions are ridiculous. Your college coaches on staff are not faring that much better. Wake up!!! We are still giving up to many points and yardage. Of course the DC, Says its the turnovers because of the field position thats why? Another excuse !!! Our DC is over his head with the offensive schemes in this league. Also, New young guys doing good and same old players with losing experience are still bad. (Personal fouls, missing blocking assignments, and missing tackles) but, the great college coaches we have keep putting them in. WoW. Some how there is no responsiblity for their actions because a brother,cousin, dad or grand father played here or knows a coach. You say thats college coaching.

You will lose with that recipe. I would play the whole team until I found someone to do the job. Your losing anyway!!

I don't believe our DC has made any excuses. he did mention once that he has since last year adjusted the positioning of the players now that he has learned their abilities.

We are so much better across the board than the previous two years, and unfortunately still not over the hump. That is how far we had fallen.

The improvement, IMO, is due to the hiring of our college coaches and the continued depth/strength we have built on the O-line. Riley's running ability really took advantage of that against Ball State. Not so much since.

[GoMeanGreen1999]

Yes Gailey brought him in, but the rest is opinion. Putting the blame on Ford and George for Saturday's game is ridiculous.

I am not sure about George, but we may need to make a change in our OC. There will be at least two very good guys at the end of the season who would be more than sufficient to do the job next year....only problem that may stop this would be that Ford and Dodge are good friends?

[greenblooded43]

I don't believe our DC has made any excuses. he did mention once that he has since last year adjusted the positioning of the players now that he has learned their abilities.

We are so much better across the board than the previous two years, and unfortunately still not over the hump. That is how far we had fallen.

The improvement, IMO, is due to the hiring of our college coaches and the continued depth/strength we have built on the O-line. Riley's running ability really took advantage of that against Ball State. Not so much since.

The only true offensive linemen that could start on the D1 level is Gill and Drake. The other 3 are too weak to play at this level. We have a nice weight room they may want to use it. A D1 offensive lineman should bench 380-400 pounds, Squat over 525, 5.0-5.2 40yd, and 4.6-4.8 in the pro agility. If they can't do that they shouldn't play no excuses. I am not sure none of them can that. Rodge is constant pressured and hurried on half of the plays. Until this changes, we will never develope the younger talent in the line, because, their is no bell cow for them to look too. Oh yeah, Think we were inside the 2yard line twice against Ohio. Seen a lot of improvement there!!

[greenblooded43]

I am not sure about George, but we may need to make a change in our OC. There will be at least two very good guys at the end of the season who would be more than sufficient to do the job next year....only problem that may stop this would be that Ford and Dodge are good friends?

Maybe its not the friends of the coaches that Dodge needs to get rid of . Maybe its the players, that their families are friends of some of the coaches. There are some players on this team that have no sense of urgency.

[GrandGreen]

The only true offensive linemen that could start on the D1 level is Gill and Drake. The other 3 are too weak to play at this level. We have a nice weight room they may want to use it. A D1 offensive lineman should bench 380-400 pounds, Squat over 525, 5.0-5.2 40yd, and 4.6-4.8 in the pro agility. If they can't do that they shouldn't play no excuses. I am not sure none of them can that. Rodge is constant pressured and hurried on half of the plays. Until this changes, we will never develope the younger talent in the line, because, their is no bell cow for them to look too. Oh yeah, Think we were inside the 2yard line twice against Ohio. Seen a lot of improvement there!!

Obvious, all five offensive linemen are starting on a FB level and have done so for at least two years. I wonder how you would know what the weight totals and 40 times are? I also see you disagree with Dodge who has on several times this year cited Santiago as having the best performance among the ol. There are multiple facets of NT's game to complain about, I just don't see the offensive line play very high on that list.

[FirefightnRick]

So then Jamario's high school coach at Spring Hill should get all the credit for his national rushing title during his true freshman year in '04? Look up any coaching resume and he will have credit for developing someone who was successful during his tenure. That's the way it is and in my oppinion Clayton George and coach Dodge get the credit they deserve for developing Casey Fitzgerald through shipping him and teaching him their system that allowed him to succeed beyond anyone's expectations.

Rick

[greenblooded43]

Obvious, all five offensive linemen are starting on a FB level and have done so for at least two years. I wonder how you would know what the weight totals and 40 times are? I also see you disagree with Dodge who has on several times this year cited Santiago as having the best performance among the ol. There are multiple facets of NT's game to complain about, I just don't see the offensive line play very high on that list.

I was just stating what you need to be doing if you are playing oline at a D1 level. Some of our lineman are not the part. If you can't tell. They can't move people. Example:Middle Tenn. and Ohio (stronger Dline) If we move people, we win. Grand Green you ought to QB and see long it will take before you will be heading to the emergancy room and then you tell me the oline is doing its job. Somebody needs to step up makes sure the QB has time, so they can run the offense. Believe me,

int's will halt and we can throw more down the field if we have time. Gio left because of that reason.

Edited October 15, 2009 by greenblooded43

[Mean Green 93-98]

I was just stating what you need to be doing if you are playing oline at a D1 level. Some of our lineman are not the part. If you can't tell. They can't move people. Example:Middle Tenn. and Ohio (stronger Dline) If we move people, we win. Grand Green you ought to QB and see long it will take before you will be heading to the emergancy room and then you tell me the oline is doing its job. Somebody needs to step up makes sure the QB has time, so they can run the offense. Believe me,

int's will halt and we can throw more down the field if we have time. Gio left because of that reason.

Remind me, please--how many sacks has our OL given up in 5 games this season?

[greenminer]

So then Jamario's high school coach at Spring Hill should get all the credit for his national rushing title during his true freshman year in '04? Look up any coaching resume and he will have credit for developing someone who was successful during his tenure. That's the way it is and in my oppinion Clayton George and coach Dodge get the credit they deserve for developing Casey Fitzgerald through shipping him and teaching him their system that allowed him to succeed beyond anyone's expectations.

Rick

We've definitely hit the point where we are trying to over-quantify this, or break it down too much. I think the answer to this debate lies somewhere in the middle: IMO Casey was a solid player with decent speed, incredible balance and footwork, with a determination that put everything over the top. You certainly can give credit to Dodge and George for teaching him the system. Someone had to show Fitz the footwork and routes.

I think Tasty is just trying to put some perspective on the matter: Casey was under tutilage (sp) his first two years down a depth chart that included some of the best wideouts we've had in recent memory. There is certainly no way to tell if the 2007 and 2008 Casey would have bettered Muzzy, Stickler and Quinn in DD's offense. Conversely, we'll never know if those guys would have been put ahead of Casey in Dodge's schemes.

The Jamario point is such a wild card and puzzling in either case: his burst and overall speed was so ridiculous before the injury. You don't coach that. No one does.

[Travis]

The Jamario point is such a wild card and puzzling in either case: his burst and overall speed was so ridiculous before the injury. You don't coach that. No one does.

But, you can make a scheme that emphasizes the player's skill set. That is what Dickey did with Jamario. That is what Dodge did with Casey.

Besides, Casey will be the first to give dodge and co. alot of credit for his success.

[greenminer]

But, you can make a scheme that emphasizes the player's skill set. That is what Dickey did with Jamario. That is what Dodge did with Casey.

Besides, Casey will be the first to give dodge and co. alot of credit for his success.

Dickey "made" his scheme for Jamario, and Dodge made his scheme for Casey?

They may have gameplanned a little bit, but they didn't exactly roll out a new playbook to cater their skill sets.

I could be wrong: maybe Dickey's entire tenure was a crazy ambition to highlight our talented punters.