Fodder For The Pro- Aggressive Gameplan V Bama People

[aztecskin]

smartfootball.com.

He talks about the Michigan-MSU game and whether or not they should have gone for two to win it. Its the link mid-way through the article--this one--that is interesting.

I mostly agree with the go-for-broke-strategy, although I can see the reasoning behind playing it safe (injuries, embarrassment). I do think that the benefits outweigh any embarrassments and injuries more often than not. Some people argue that that Giants SB team was inspired by playing NE in that seemingly-meaningless season finale. I think it sends a message to the team that there are no off days or off games and that the coaching staff is always trying to win no matter what.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

From the article:

"The nature of passing can vary (if you only throw bubble screens that does not entirely count) but passing repeatedly is an underdog strategy."

Anyway, the this is alot of what Sammy Hagar would call "mental masturbation." The bottom line is that underdogs have to have coaches that know what to do, speed in enough places to counter what "Goliath" has, and discipline.

Troy tried passing and pulling tricks on Florida earlier this year and got whipped. They lost a game to LSU last year that they "had in the bag" because they kept throwing the ball. The problem is, I believe, most teams in this situation don't trust themselves.

Early in a season, a Goliath isn't going to put in a full package of plays on offense or schemes on defense to prepare for an opponent that is outmanned. There's no point in it. If you are Alabama, why show the SEC every trick up your sleeve against North Texas? Better athletes will almost always win, even if they make a few mistakes. What Goliath wants to do is get up early and pull starters to give underclassmen some reps, and get out with no injuries.

But, if early in the ballgame your coaching staff is smart enough to realize how the Goliath is proceeding in its limited plans and schemes, and the team has enough discipline to adjust on the fly - and speed to execute the adjustments - you can take down a Goliath. Goliath doesn't like it when you "hang with them." They haven't put in enough of the playbook that week to counter you if you shut down their basic stuff. Conversely, if you are moving the ball against the basic defensive scheme they employ for you, they may not be able to fully counter for the same reason.

The vast majority of the time, though, Goliath is going to win. People look at Appalachian State versus Michigan a couple of years ago, but fail to mention the hundreds of other games where Goliath won. Darrell Dickey would occassionally do a good job of keeping a Goliath game close, but never really had enough speed on his roster to take down anyone other than Spike Dykes-led Texas Tech teams, who could be beaten if you could shut down their run game.

The trick plays and desperate passing game is garbage. If Goliath can score on you in four plays or less (SEE North Texas @ Oklahoma, 2007), it doesn't matter if you limit the total number of plays either. In those games, nothing matters. OU ran bubble screens that scored against us. It was ridiculous. Then, there was the high school defensive coordinator on our sideline trying to figure out what to do...and well...as I've said, you've got to have coaches who know what they are doing, first and foremost. The idea that Todd Dodge and his crew in 2007 had any clue as to how to crack Bob Stoops and his coaches was as laughable then as it is now.

The bottom line is you have the have coaches with enough smarts and players with enough speed and discipline to execute your normal gameplan when Goliath goes vanilla. If you don't, you'll get whipped everytime. If you've got smart coaches who trust what they are doing, and speedy and disciplined enough players to execute their orders, you can bring down Goliath.

Edited October 7, 2009 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

[LongJim]

The bottom line is you have the have coaches with enough smarts and players with enough speed and discipline to execute your normal gameplan when Goliath goes vanilla. If you don't, you'll get whipped everytime. If you've got smart coaches who trust what they are doing, and speedy and disciplined enough players to execute their orders, you can bring down Goliath.

I agree with this.

[aztecskin]

From the article:

The trick plays and desperate passing game is garbage. If Goliath can score on you in four plays or less (SEE North Texas @ Oklahoma, 2007), it doesn't matter if you limit the total number of plays either. In those games, nothing matters. OU ran bubble screens that scored against us. It was ridiculous. Then, there was the high school defensive coordinator on our sideline trying to figure out what to do...and well...as I've said, you've got to have coaches who know what they are doing, first and foremost. The idea that Todd Dodge and his crew in 2007 had any clue as to how to crack Bob Stoops and his coaches was as laughable then as it is now.

The bottom line is you have the have coaches with enough smarts and players with enough speed and discipline to execute your normal gameplan when Goliath goes vanilla. If you don't, you'll get whipped everytime. If you've got smart coaches who trust what they are doing, and speedy and disciplined enough players to execute their orders, you can bring down Goliath.

Well I agree with the thinking that Todd Dodge and crew were vastly out coached that first year. It was to be expected: a high school coach with holdover talent vs an accomplished former defensive coordinator and championship winning head coach with BCS talent?

I also know that there isn't any failsafe 'system' or formula for beating a favored, more talented team. There are strategies that could make it more likely-- however slight it might be. So I wouldn't call the passing game desperate or garbage. I think for a well-coached team (by all accounts that is what that App state team was- they were FCS title contenders every year) whose only disadvantage is the gap in talent it favors you to employ a more aggressive - and therefore risky - strategy.

So if you are saying that UNT was not only disadvantaged talent-wise but also suffered from geniusHighSchoolCoachWhoIsNotCutOutForHeadCoachatThisLevel syndrome-- then you have a point.

So in other news: Anyone think that maybe we meant to hire Gus Malzahn and instead got Dodge? Was it like the Manning--Ryan Leaf thing, where we got stuck with bust and Arkansas/Tulsa/Auburn got the stud HOFer?

Wow.

[TIgreen01]

Well I agree with the thinking that Todd Dodge and crew were vastly out coached that first year. It was to be expected: a high school coach with holdover talent vs an accomplished former defensive coordinator and championship winning head coach with BCS talent?

I also know that there isn't any failsafe 'system' or formula for beating a favored, more talented team. There are strategies that could make it more likely-- however slight it might be. So I wouldn't call the passing game desperate or garbage. I think for a well-coached team (by all accounts that is what that App state team was- they were FCS title contenders every year) whose only disadvantage is the gap in talent it favors you to employ a more aggressive - and therefore risky - strategy.

So if you are saying that UNT was not only disadvantaged talent-wise but also suffered from geniusHighSchoolCoachWhoIsNotCutOutForHeadCoachatThisLevel syndrome-- then you have a point.

So in other news: Anyone think that maybe we meant to hire Gus Malzahn and instead got Dodge? Was it like the Manning--Ryan Leaf thing, where we got stuck with bust and Arkansas/Tulsa/Auburn got the stud HOFer?

Wow.

Thought the article was incredibly interesting. I tend to agree with your take on the point of it, though....there is no one way to slay a giant. You basically have to take risks and have some luck.

About Malzahn: You have to remember that Malzahn has not yet been promoted to head coach at any of his college stops. I think the path he's taken has been much more conducive to having quick success than the path that Dodge has taken. I still don't think you can throw in the towel on Dodge just yet.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

As far as Malzahn, he's taking the route coaches normally take: high school to college assistant to head coach. Check Troy head coach Larry Blakeney's resume: QB at Auburn, seven years as a high school coach, 14 years as an assistant at Auburn, now in his 19th year as Troy's head coach. A full 14 years between his high school coaching career to the time he was named head coach at Troy. And, in those intervening 14 years, he spent 10 seasons daily watching Pat Dye build Auburn from an also-ran in the SEC to a perennial conference and national title contender. That's valuable.

The problem with Todd Dodge is simply that the gap between what it takes to run a high school football team versus what it take to run a FBS college football program is vast. As an assistant, you can be responsible for your group of players and see how the whole thing operates. Dodge never had that. I think that's why he was naive enough to bring on so many high school coaches with him. You have to assume naivete, otherwise you have to believe he really thought he was such a genius that he could win at this level with high school coaches. He couldn't be that stupid, right?

The disappointment is that we have an athletic director who should have known better. He's a guy who coached a little in I-A and had some experience over at TCU on the administration side. Surely, he had to know that (1) hiring a high school coach was risky enough without (2) also letting him bring so many high school assistants.

I think that's why he's had the problem he's had, on and off the field. He didn't know how to handle a team that wasn't full of suburban white kids. He didn't know how to handle a media that didn't fawn all over him. It manifested itself in garbage like coaches reprimanding players for cussing in the middle of football games and not allowing the local press access.

What you hope Dodge has learned is that you can't run an FBS program like Cuba, every command coming from the top down. You need assistant who know what they are doing. And, then, you have to have faith enough in yourself that you delegate authority out to them.

[Eagle1855]

As far as Malzahn, he's taking the route coaches normally take: high school to college assistant to head coach. Check Troy head coach Larry Blakeney's resume: QB at Auburn, seven years as a high school coach, 14 years as an assistant at Auburn, now in his 19th year as Troy's head coach. A full 14 years between his high school coaching career to the time he was named head coach at Troy. And, in those intervening 14 years, he spent 10 seasons daily watching Pat Dye build Auburn from an also-ran in the SEC to a perennial conference and national title contender. That's valuable.

The problem with Todd Dodge is simply that the gap between what it takes to run a high school football team versus what it take to run a FBS college football program is vast. As an assistant, you can be responsible for your group of players and see how the whole thing operates. Dodge never had that. I think that's why he was naive enough to bring on so many high school coaches with him. You have to assume naivete, otherwise you have to believe he really thought he was such a genius that he could win at this level with high school coaches. He couldn't be that stupid, right?

The disappointment is that we have an athletic director who should have known better. He's a guy who coached a little in I-A and had some experience over at TCU on the administration side. Surely, he had to know that (1) hiring a high school coach was risky enough without (2) also letting him bring so many high school assistants.

I think that's why he's had the problem he's had, on and off the field. He didn't know how to handle a team that wasn't full of suburban white kids. He didn't know how to handle a media that didn't fawn all over him. It manifested itself in garbage like coaches reprimanding players for cussing in the middle of football games and not allowing the local press access.

What you hope Dodge has learned is that you can't run an FBS program like Cuba, every command coming from the top down. You need assistant who know what they are doing. And, then, you have to have faith enough in yourself that you delegate authority out to them.

biiiiingoooooooo

[Green P1]

As far as Malzahn, he's taking the route coaches normally take: high school to college assistant to head coach. Check Troy head coach Larry Blakeney's resume: QB at Auburn, seven years as a high school coach, 14 years as an assistant at Auburn, now in his 19th year as Troy's head coach. A full 14 years between his high school coaching career to the time he was named head coach at Troy. And, in those intervening 14 years, he spent 10 seasons daily watching Pat Dye build Auburn from an also-ran in the SEC to a perennial conference and national title contender. That's valuable.

The problem with Todd Dodge is simply that the gap between what it takes to run a high school football team versus what it take to run a FBS college football program is vast. As an assistant, you can be responsible for your group of players and see how the whole thing operates. Dodge never had that. I think that's why he was naive enough to bring on so many high school coaches with him. You have to assume naivete, otherwise you have to believe he really thought he was such a genius that he could win at this level with high school coaches. He couldn't be that stupid, right?

The disappointment is that we have an athletic director who should have known better. He's a guy who coached a little in I-A and had some experience over at TCU on the administration side. Surely, he had to know that (1) hiring a high school coach was risky enough without (2) also letting him bring so many high school assistants.

I think that's why he's had the problem he's had, on and off the field. He didn't know how to handle a team that wasn't full of suburban white kids. He didn't know how to handle a media that didn't fawn all over him. It manifested itself in garbage like coaches reprimanding players for cussing in the middle of football games and not allowing the local press access.

What you hope Dodge has learned is that you can't run an FBS program like Cuba, every command coming from the top down. You need assistant who know what they are doing. And, then, you have to have faith enough in yourself that you delegate authority out to them.

Actually decided to read one of your essays this time. Very good stuff in there.

[pollock]

What you hope Dodge has learned is that you can't run an FBS program like Cuba, every command coming from the top down.

I would be excited if he would just allow one offensive snap to occur without him personally "reading" the D and signaling the play.

[aztecskin]

The problem with Todd Dodge is simply that the gap between what it takes to run a high school football team versus what it take to run a FBS college football program is vast. As an assistant, you can be responsible for your group of players and see how the whole thing operates. Dodge never had that. I think that's why he was naive enough to bring on so many high school coaches with him. You have to assume naivete, otherwise you have to believe he really thought he was such a genius that he could win at this level with high school coaches. He couldn't be that stupid, right?

The disappointment is that we have an athletic director who should have known better. He's a guy who coached a little in I-A and had some experience over at TCU on the administration side. Surely, he had to know that (1) hiring a high school coach was risky enough without (2) also letting him bring so many high school assistants.

I think that's why he's had the problem he's had, on and off the field. He didn't know how to handle a team that wasn't full of suburban white kids. He didn't know how to handle a media that didn't fawn all over him. It manifested itself in garbage like coaches reprimanding players for cussing in the middle of football games and not allowing the local press access.

What you hope Dodge has learned is that you can't run an FBS program like Cuba, every command coming from the top down. You need assistant who know what they are doing. And, then, you have to have faith enough in yourself that you delegate authority out to them.

Well, in RV's defense, Todge was an cfb assistant once upon a time. But I do agree with the staffing thing. I am sure RV mentioned something about it but Todge probably had that as a condition of signing on.

Whether or not Dodgie not being capable of delegating and running non-white urban kids is the cause of the poor record is not for me to say [but sounds about right] I was more thinking of the unstoppable offense that can flummox the likes of Tennessee for 500+ yards. What I am saying is although he may not be a good head coach - is it possible that he is not even a good offensive coordinator?

I thought he showed signs of improvement his first year. Maybe it was comparative improvement from that team that had two plays: throw it to JQ and run for no gain. It seems to me IMHO, that we have gotten even more conservative than that first year. I keep hearing excuses about not having big play guys etc. I watched that SC team play Smithson Valley for the State title. Carroll wasn't so much more talented than SV that it accounts for the differences in the two offenses. We have stopped being aggressive. SC threw it deep. We don't. Not with enough regularity or success to stretch the defense.

I'll stop there because I don't wanna sound any more like the 'TEs will solve everything' crowd anymore than I already do.