Rip Mary Travers

[SilverEagle]

My all caps button wasn't on. The title should say RIP Mary Travers.

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/m..._mary_dead.html

Edited September 17, 2009 by SilverEagle

[DeepGreen]

Funny thing is, in college I liked PP&M's folk music and style but had no idea they were protesting. My all time favorites during the day were the Kingston Trio.

RIP Mary

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

Funny thing is, in college I liked PP&M's folk music and style but had no idea they were protesting. My all time favorites during the day were the Kingston Trio.

RIP Mary

--You must not have been draft bait for six years like some of us were. ( or got drafted) We knew.

________________

----Just looked at your profile... you were draft bait as I was, just a couple years younger. I don't know how you missed the messages in many of their songs. Did you live in a dorm at all.??

Edited September 18, 2009 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[FirefightnRick]

--You must not have been draft bait for six years like some of us were. ( or got drafted) We knew.

________________

----Just looked at your profile... you were draft bait as I was, just a couple years younger. I don't know how you missed the messages in many of their songs. Did you live in a dorm at all.??

I suspect those(like Deep Green) who were actually fighting for this country in Vietnam may have had more on their minds(like staying alive) than worrying about what message some song was trying to convey?

Rick

[SilverEagle]

As I said in the beginning...the voice of CIVIL protest. If we are going to discuss her, could we do so in a CIVIL manner. Their main protest songs were about civil rights, but they also joined the anti-war movement. One of my favorites of theirs was Bob Dylan's "Don't Think Twice, it's Alright".....a song about a CIVIL relationship break up. Sadly, something that has gotten as rare as CIVIL political debates.

[DeepGreen]

--You must not have been draft bait for six years like some of us were. ( or got drafted) We knew.

________________

----Just looked at your profile... you were draft bait as I was, just a couple years younger. I don't know how you missed the messages in many of their songs. Did you live in a dorm at all.??

Graduated from UNT, drafted and served in Viet Nam for 14 months, thank you. One year in a dorm is all I could take; apartments were better for partying than dorms.

[DeepGreen]

I suspect those(like Deep Green) who were actually fighting for this country in Vietnam may have had more on their minds(like staying alive) than worrying about what message some song was trying to convey?

Rick

As we said in the day, "there it is". Our icons were Creedance Clearwater Revival of "Run Through The Jungle" fame.

Edited September 18, 2009 by DeepGreen

[SilverEagle]

As we said in the day, "there is is". Our icons were Creedance Clearwater Revival of "Run Through The Jungle" fame.

And one of my favorites of theirs was "Fortunate Son"......

Edited September 18, 2009 by SilverEagle

[DeepGreen]

And one of my favorites of theirs was "Fortunate Son"......

Which made me the "unfortunate son".

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

Graduated from UNT, drafted and served in Viet Nam for 14 months, thank you. One year in a dorm is all I could take; apartments were better for partying than dorms.

---I was never drafted but took the physical during the Tet Offensive in 1968... Oddly the day I took physical no one that was 24 yr old (my age) or older passed (12 of us) ... and every 19-20 year passed. We walked out with a crazy feeling about it all. I never protested anything but did not really "get" why we were over there... at least by 1968. A lot of music then was somewhat protest music and one of the funniest was "Please Mr. Custer, I really don't want to Go".... which you likely remember and laughed at when it ended with all the Indians yelling.. The way soldiers were treated upon return sometimes was awful... hope you did not get any of that. I am surprized you did not realize the P,P & M music was often protest music as well as just being good music...

---My two best friends died as a result of that war... one because of agent orange exposure and the other came back with as drug habit... neither lasted 10 more years. My wife lost her father as the result of WWII and a relative of mine was in the Battle of the Bulge and his unit lost 80+% of their men. I now hate war unless it is absolutely necessary... which WWII was. This partially explains my opposition to the Iraq invasion... I did not think it was necessary since it was not related to 9-11..

---I was at College Inn...(charter resident) and not a typical dorm because it had outside doors....it was more like a motel with a cafeteria. At that time it was privately owned and not NT property.

Edited September 18, 2009 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[DeepGreen]

---I was never drafted but took the physical during the Tet Offensive in 1968... Oddly the day I took physical no one that was 24 yr old (my age) or older passed (12 of us) ... and every 19-20 year passed. We walked out with a crazy feeling about it all. I never protested anything but did not really "get" why we were over there... at least by 1968. A lot of music then was somewhat protest music and one of the funniest was "Please Mr. Custer, I really don't want to Go".... which you likely remember and laughed at when it ended with all the Indians yelling.. The way soldiers were treated upon return sometimes was awful... hope you did not get any of that. I am surprized you did not realize the P,P & M music was often protest music as well as just being good music...

---I was at College Inn...(charter resident) and not a typical dorm because it had outside doors....it was more like a motel with a cafeteria.

If you missed out on Nam, consider yourself lucky. The Government called, I went, and fortunately I came back - with my head screwed on correctly. Unlike some.

Oh, don't misunderstand me. I knew the protest songs. Being a guitar player I spent more time concentrating on the chords and fingerpicking of PP&M (and others) than what they were saying.

And it was a shame what our soldiers went through coming home to their country. Fortunately for me I didn't get any of that. I came in "stealthlike" during the "dead of night".

Not to get political here, but Viet Nam (and other similar wars) could have been decisively won if the damn politicians would get out of the way. Trust me, politicians lose wars, not soldiers.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

----I agree with most of what you said but I am not so sure about we could have ever won.... We heard that for years during the war and generals (especially Westmoreland) kept saying just send us a few more troops and we can win... finally we got to about 800,000 troops and it wasn't going well. I look at it as having a bad poker hand.... the opposition would keep raising the stakes and we had so much in the pot we just could not fold. We were on the boundary of China and they weren't about to let us win (my opinion) just as we would not have tolerated Russia controling Canada.

[DeepGreen]

----I agree with most of what you said but I am not so sure about we could have ever won.... We heard that for years during the war and generals (especially Westmoreland) kept saying just send us a few more troops and we can win... finally we got to about 800,000 troops and it wasn't going well. I look at it as having a bad poker hand.... the opposition would keep raising the stakes and we had so much in the pot we just could not fold. We were on the boundary of China and they weren't about to let us win (my opinion) just as we would not have tolerated Russia controling Canada.

I don't disagree with you. From my side, when I was over there and part of an artillery unit, we were trained that when you see incoming from the surrounding hills(mortar, rockets, etc.), to locate the coordinates (incoming smoke for the tubes), load howitzers with rounds for return fire, then wait for clearance to fire. And wait........and wait...........and wait some more. Uh, just enough waiting for the Cong mortar crew to beat the feet. Then we get word "not to fire" because there are friendlies in the area, or the artillery rounds make too much noise, so don't shoot back! Seriously, it happened quite a bit during my tour over there.

Did scenerios like that make a difference in the outcome? Maybe not. Who knows.

Edited September 18, 2009 by DeepGreen

[Rudy]

If you missed out on Nam, consider yourself lucky. The Government called, I went, and fortunately I came back - with my head screwed on correctly. Unlike some.

Oh, don't misunderstand me. I knew the protest songs. Being a guitar player I spent more time concentrating on the chords and fingerpicking of PP&M (and others) than what they were saying.

And it was a shame what our soldiers went through coming home to their country. Fortunately for me I didn't get any of that. I came in "stealthlike" during the "dead of night".

Not to get political here, but Viet Nam (and other similar wars) could have been decisively won if the damn politicians would get out of the way. Trust me, politicians lose wars, not soldiers.

----I agree with most of what you said but I am not so sure about we could have ever won.... We heard that for years during the war and generals (especially Westmoreland) kept saying just send us a few more troops and we can win... finally we got to about 800,000 troops and it wasn't going well. I look at it as having a bad poker hand.... the opposition would keep raising the stakes and we had so much in the pot we just could not fold. We were on the boundary of China and they weren't about to let us win (my opinion) just as we would not have tolerated Russia controling Canada.

I was watching a show on "The Art of War" on one of the history channels, and it covered the Vietnam War. It was interesting to see that they "won" because they followed many of the rules set forth by those documents. As to why we were there, at that time, Communism was our biggest threat and we saw Communism trying to spread.

[Quoner]

I was watching a show on "The Art of War" on one of the history channels, and it covered the Vietnam War. It was interesting to see that they "won" because they followed many of the rules set forth by those documents. As to why we were there, at that time, Communism was our biggest threat and we saw Communism trying to spread.

You know the scene in Step Brothers where they are having a serious conversation at dinner and everyone is enjoying it before Dale opens his mouth and asks if Bonita Fish are big? Well either way, that's what you did.

Let them talk - it's pretty interesting stuff.

Also, I love you.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

I was watching a show on "The Art of War" on one of the history channels, and it covered the Vietnam War. It was interesting to see that they "won" because they followed many of the rules set forth by those documents. As to why we were there, at that time, Communism was our biggest threat and we saw Communism trying to spread.

--- You are absolutely correct.... but it still doesn't justify us fighting a large war 12 time zones away on the Chinese border. After Korea we should have known China just wasn't going to allow us to succeed next to them with a land border... When we had the North Koreans on the ropes (about 1950) they sent in their Chinese troops for us to fight. We allowed communist Cuba to exist as it did but at the same time there was a 90 mile water barrier between us. The Cuban missile crisis in (1963?) was all about USSR sending in troops and missiles there to threaten us. We got pretty close to a Cuban invasion and I remember train after train of tanks, army trucks, etc. going through my hometown headed for the Texas coast. China was not going to let us do the same to them either. Maybe you lived through it and maybe you didn't. When backing away from it with the passage of time... we see it had very little chance of achieving success... after all it went on for about 10 years and never got better. They did not have to win ... just had to not to lose it.... which is exactly what they did... until we tossed the towel in years later ...then I guess you could say they won.. they then took over All of Viet Nam.