Unsportsmanlike Penalties

Rudy · September 13, 2009

This isnt just about the unsportsmanlike penalty from last night, but the overzealous crackdown in all of football. Im all for putting an end to the "showboating", but come on. A few years ago a player was flagged for unsportsmanlike after a TD in the Hawaii Bowl. His offense? Calmly high-fiving fans who wanted to congratualt him. Today, a Saints player was flagged for running by and bumping arms with a Lions player. Last night, our reciever was flagged for walking away from the opposing players, facing our sideline, and flexing his arms for a second. This is pathetic!

Green Crazy · September 13, 2009

he actually flexed his arms towards their sideline and then turned around while he was still flexing. i think he was doing it towards our student section, not the sideline, but whatever...it's a flag that the refs will throw 99 out of 100 times.

GoMeanGreen1999 · September 13, 2009

he actually flexed his arms towards their sideline and then turned around while he was still flexing. i think he was doing it towards our student section, not the sideline, but whatever...it's a flag that the refs will throw 99 out of 100 times.

I just thought it was a poor decision on his part.....he is young, he will learn. Just catch the ball and go back to the huddle.

SilverEagle · September 13, 2009

I just thought it was a poor decision on his part.....he is young, he will learn. Just catch the ball and go back to the huddle.

He is a Junior and should know better. If he was hoping that he would eventually get an opportunity to show what he could really do....then in my estimation he really blew it. If I was in charge, he would be sitting on the bench for a game or two.

AND I totally agree with the last part of your statement....that's just what this young man should have done.

GoMeanGreen1999 · September 13, 2009

He is a Junior and should know better. If he was hoping that he would eventually get an opportunity to show what he could really do....then in my estimation he really blew it. If I was in charge, he would be sitting on the bench for a game or two.
AND I totally agree with the last part of your statement....that's just what this young man should have done.

well I guess I just meant young in the sense of age. I agree, I would have yanked him out of the game at that point, but he was in there for the very next play.

greenjoe · September 13, 2009

This happened at a critical point in the drive.

I thought I saw him grab to top of his jersey and hold it up toward the visitor's bench as if to say, "I'm number 4. I'll be here all night."

Well, after he was flagged, and Tim Crouch announced his name over the PA, we all knew his name and his number.

There's no "ME" in "TEAM."

Rudy · September 14, 2009

There's no "ME" in "TEAM."

But there is a meat.

If if flexed toward their sideline, that is a little different. However, a little leeway isnt a bad thing. Just flexing his arms for a sec, big deal.

Huff · September 14, 2009

One of my favorite phrasis is "Just get in the huddle and hush". I am glad to see the NCAA crack down on the lack of sportsmanship. I agree with 1999 that he should have come out of the game at that point to have a chance to explain to the head coach why we just got penalized 15 yards.

Green P1 · September 14, 2009

If I was in charge, he would be sitting on the bench for a game or two.

A game or two? Really?

I didn't like the penalty but I had no problem with the flexing. I'll admit to imitating him .5 seconds after he did it. After a sack, defensive lineman can get away with bear crawling halfway towards the opponents sideline while shaking their head waving their arms and high stepping without any fear of flag. The way that crap is called is far too inconsistent.

forevereagle · September 14, 2009

There's no "ME" in "TEAM."

Really? There is a ME in TEAM.

Green Mean · September 14, 2009

Excessive celebration should not be an unsportsmanlike penalty. It is just so rediculous that there is limits on all this stuff including taunting and stuff. These are all grown ass men here. Kind of reminds me a segment The Musers did a few years back called "the wussification of america". These types of penalties I feel are a good example.

VideoEagle · September 14, 2009

The problem is taunting leads directly to the kind of retaliation that Oregon player did on on the Boise State end last week. If you allow flexing muscles to the sidelines then you inevitably will have players running into the stands to retaliate by punching out fans. If our guy runs back to the huddle pumping his fist in the air no one is going to complain. Doing what he did was exactly what the Boise player did. Now the Boise head coach was in the middle of "explaining in no uncertain terms" why he should not have do that when the defensive end got an object lesson from the Oregon running back.

Allowing taunting will create brawls. This is not some kind of abstract statement but had been proven multiple times in multiple football games. There is a clear difference between celebrating a good play and taunting. Showing off to the opposing bench unquestionably is taunting.

Edited September 14, 2009 by VideoEagle

GrandGreen · September 14, 2009

The problem is taunting leads directly to the kind of retaliation that Oregon player did on on the Boise State end last week. If you allow flexing muscles to the sidelines then you inevitably will have players running into the stands to retaliate buy punching out fans. If our guy runs back to the huddle pumping his fist in the air no one is going to complain. Doing what he did was exactly what the Boise player did. Now the Boise head coach was in the middle of "explaining in no uncertain terms" why he should not have do that when the defensive end got an object lesson from the Oregon running back.
Allowing taunting will create brawls. This is not some kind of abstract statement but had been proven multiple times in multiple football games. There is a clear difference between celebrating a good play and taunting. Showing off to the opposing bench unquestionably is taunting.

Yes, remember all the countless brawls that occurred before the taunting rules. The facts are that taunting is like obscenity. Everyone has a different opinion of what it is. The problem with the NCAA rules are that there are no concrete definitions of what is taunting and what it is not. The infamous choreographed grenade celebration is equated with spontaneous acts of joy like tossing the football into the air or other harmless acts. You may or not know that the NCAA is seriously considering making the penalties for taunting even more serious. In the future td celebrations may actually end up with taunting penalties that would nullify the score.

It is somewhat confusing to me that a sport that is based on hard contact fills it is necessary to protect the players and I guess fans from getting their feelings hurt by taunting. Dang, I was not to happy to see all that celebration by the Ohio team after they had won the game. Maybe they should have forfeited for over celebration.

There is no place in athletes for physical abuse. but I have a hard time with taunting penalties. Unless it is something that is unquestionably meant to "taunt" your opponent such as pointing to a downed player, going over to confront the opponents' bench, or something obviously meant to inflame or embarrass your opponents; then it should not be an infraction. In my view, actions that could just as easily be interpreted as enthusiasm should not be penalized. Are football players going to be traumatized by an opposing player goose stepping into the en zone, flexing his arms, dancing after a good play or tossing the ball into the air. Most players may be fired up to play harder by these actions but I doubt few are going to

be emotional scarred or feel it is necessary to retaliate in an inappropriate way.

VideoEagle · September 14, 2009

Yes, remember all the countless brawls that occurred before the taunting rules. The facts are that taunting is like obscenity. Everyone has a different opinion of what it is. The problem with the NCAA rules are that there are no concrete definitions of what is taunting and what it is not. The infamous choreographed grenade celebration is equated with spontaneous acts of joy like tossing the football into the air or other harmless acts. You may or not know that the NCAA is seriously considering making the penalties for taunting even more serious. In the future td celebrations may actually end up with taunting penalties that would nullify the score.
It is somewhat confusing to me that a sport that is based on hard contact fills it is necessary to protect the players and I guess fans from getting their feelings hurt by taunting. Dang, I was not to happy to see all that celebration by the Ohio team after they had won the game. Maybe they should have forfeited for over celebration.
There is no place in athletes for physical abuse. but I have a hard time with taunting penalties. Unless it is something that is unquestionably meant to "taunt" your opponent such as pointing to a downed player, going over to confront the opponents' bench, or something obviously meant to inflame or embarrass your opponents; then it should not be an infraction. In my view, actions that could just as easily be interpreted as enthusiasm should not be penalized. Are football players going to be traumatized by an opposing player goose stepping into the en zone, flexing his arms, dancing after a good play or tossing the ball into the air. Most players may be fired up to play harder by these actions but I doubt few are going to
be emotional scarred or feel it is necessary to retaliate in an inappropriate way.

To paraphrase Potter Stewart, I might not be able to define taunting but I know it when I see it. Based on what you write, it appears you think the 1991 Texas-Miami Cotton Bowl is something that should be repeated. Most people including the a VAST majority of college Presidents and those on the NCAA rules committee disagree with you. Actually a quick Google search of editorials on the game will show NO writers at all agreeing with you and ALL asking for taunting penalties to be added to the game and strictly enforced.

Since one of the actions you say should be punished, "something obviously meant to inflame or embarrass your opponents," is EXACTLY what happened - trying to enrage to rival bench - it is a little strange you think there should not be a penalty for the very thing you write should generate one.

NT80 · September 14, 2009

I didn't like the penalty but I had no problem with the flexing. I'll admit to imitating him .5 seconds after he did it. After a sack, defensive lineman can get away with bear crawling halfway towards the opponents sideline while shaking their head waving their arms and high stepping without any fear of flag. The way that crap is called is far too inconsistent.

I also thought he was just doing it toward the student crowd, but later I read an article that implied he may have also said something to the opponent bench as the reason for the flag. If he said something then that was different and deserved a flag. I did notice an NT coach screaming at him from the sideline after that penalty but when he finally came off the field later no coach acted like it was a big deal or even approached him that I could see.

GrandGreen · September 14, 2009

To paraphrase Potter Stewart, I might not be able to define taunting but I know it when I see it. Based on what you write, it appears you think the 1991 Texas-Miami Cotton Bowl is something that should be repeated. Most people including the a VAST majority of college Presidents and those on the NCAA rules committee disagree with you. Actually a quick Google search of editorials on the game will show NO writers at all agreeing with you and ALL asking for taunting penalties to be added to the game and strictly enforced.
Since one of the actions you say should be punished, "something obviously meant to inflame or embarrass your opponents," is EXACTLY what happened - trying to enrage to rival bench - it is a little strange you think there should not be a penalty for the very thing you write should generate one.
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I surely am not trying to defend every adverse action that ever happened before the taunting penalty. The Miami at Cotton Bowl debacle was a major black eye for the Miami program which certainly had been pressing the issue of acceptable behavior. The very fact that you equate minor taunting or celebrations issues with the out of control Miami program is illustrative of the problems with trying to legislate good sportsmanship. Where do you draw the line? As far as your last statement, I made no direct quotes about the Lott penalty because I did not see it. The flex pose, I assume you realize is far from unusual in the sports world.

KRAM1 · September 14, 2009

One of the best quotes I have ever heard went something like this..."Act like you have been there before". I forget who said it...maybe Bear Bryant or Tom Landry...don't know...I am sure someone does and can tell us, but it does say a good bit to me about this sort of thing. This type of "stuff" does no good, and, as we all saw, can really make a good thing turn bad. Nice that UNT "recovered" from the "brain freeze", and I am probably sure it will not happen again, but still......

I'm with Silver Eagle on this one....

untgirl04 · September 14, 2009

I also thought he was just doing it toward the student crowd, but later I read an article that implied he may have also said something to the opponent bench as the reason for the flag. If he said something then that was different and deserved a flag. I did notice an NT coach screaming at him from the sideline after that penalty but when he finally came off the field later no coach acted like it was a big deal or even approached him that I could see.

I noticed the lack of coach involvement too. However, I am hoping it was one of those 'wait until we get home' moments and Lott's inappropriate actions will be addressed by the coaches in practice all week. Of course, had I been a coach, he would have sat the pine for at least a few plays so he could calm himself down.

GabeGMG · September 14, 2009

I just thought it was a poor decision on his part.....he is young, he will learn. Just catch the ball and go back to the huddle.

Maybe it's because we run the no-huddle offense

greenjoe · September 14, 2009

OK. Here's another one for you.

"The name on the back of the jersey is not as important as the name on the front of the jersey."

Just play the game. If you do a good job, the other team will know who you are.

GO MEAN GREEN

oldguystudent · September 14, 2009

One of the best quotes I have ever heard went something like this..."Act like you have been there before". I forget who said it...maybe Bear Bryant or Tom Landry...don't know...I am sure someone does and can tell us, but it does say a good bit to me about this sort of thing. This type of "stuff" does no good, and, as we all saw, can really make a good thing turn bad. Nice that UNT "recovered" from the "brain freeze", and I am probably sure it will not happen again, but still......
I'm with Silver Eagle on this one....

You beat me to it. I was going to use that exact same quote. The argument I always hear in the pros that I like is that it's your JOB to score touchdowns. If you don't, then you've FAILED at your job. If you do, then you've merely earned your paycheck. Get up, walk to the sideline, and let the field goal unit do their JOB in getting the extra point. I wonder how we would all do at work if we flexed our muscles every time we succeeded in performing one of our basic job responsibilities. Grrr!! Yeah, baby! I'm Mr. Red Tie in a Blue Suit Man, and you're gonna' see me here all day! Now THAT'S how you format a TPS report! RowwrR!! Or how bout those of us in the classroom? How's about I hold up my scantron with the big, bad A on it, do a little jig on the front table, and flex my muscles at the poor saps who came out with low Cs?

Leave the gesticulating to the fans. That's OUR job!

Edit: One of the reasons I hated the New York Yankees teams of the 90s with such a passion is that they never taunted. They quietly went about their business as if it were their birthright to win the world series every year. Man, that used to piss me off. It wasn't taunting, arm flexing or dancing. It was "swagger." In my opinion, it has a much greater adverse effect on opponents.

Edited September 14, 2009 by oldguystudent

UNTFan23 · September 15, 2009

The problem is taunting leads directly to the kind of retaliation that Oregon player did on on the Boise State end last week. If you allow flexing muscles to the sidelines then you inevitably will have players running into the stands to retaliate by punching out fans. If our guy runs back to the huddle pumping his fist in the air no one is going to complain. Doing what he did was exactly what the Boise player did. Now the Boise head coach was in the middle of "explaining in no uncertain terms" why he should not have do that when the defensive end got an object lesson from the Oregon running back.
Allowing taunting will create brawls. This is not some kind of abstract statement but had been proven multiple times in multiple football games. There is a clear difference between celebrating a good play and taunting. Showing off to the opposing bench unquestionably is taunting.

Well, the jawing by the Oregon QB before anyone got to the stadium is what ultimately lead to him punching the Boise player.

No one likes a sore loser.