about what i said

[ascchamp]

what i said and meant is that don't get excited about walk-ons that haven't proven themselfs yet! that is what i meant by that now they can tie their own shoes! the girl from texas tech is originally from this area! and yes they still have players that can play but what about potential injuries! one person shoudln't make or break a team but now the team is in that situation that if the wrong person gets hurt they have no one to step up and score the goals like last year! they don't have the keeper that they can ride into a conference tournament! and your aren't going to bring these walk-ons and have them start over his old returning players! so great they have a bench! but can any one them step it up! and in texas we all know that having all state honors in high school is flawed because some of the best players never got those honors, club is where the real soccer is in texas not high school! and most college coaches fom texas would agree with that! yes you have do produce to win those honors but look at where the state champs come from??? '99 Boys Grandbury, wichita fallas rider?? what is in those cities not quality soccer as in dallas . so see, it is flawed!

[Reb UT '70]

I would point out that Monica was all-state. I would also point out that having talked to a lot of soccer coaches that all-region and all-state honors kids are highly recruited. Go talk talk to the coaches at Texas, A&M, Baylor and others. Yes, ODP is a great showcase, but the coaches also know that there there is so much club politics in there that many great players never even try out.

After all club soccer is a money making business, I know I've seen the bottom line, and one of the best recruiting tools is how many players you can place on ODP from your club. When part time coaches in Dallas are making 1800 per month you'd better believe that the club a kid plays for is more important than the skill level. It got so bad that they had to change the state orgainzations.

There is a problem in All-region and all-state, and that is that great teams tend to be bunched into the same district. The selection process is that in order to be on the all region team you have to be all-district 1st team, same for all-state. This means that some great Dallas players get knocked out.

Lastly, look at where the kids on the state championship teams play club, and you will find that they are also on all the ODP teams as well. The club system is not good for soccer, but it lets college scouts look at a lot of players at one place in the big tourneys. That's the power of the club, However as more and more high school start having tourneys that should change. I know that the Governor's & First Lady's Cup was thick with college scouts. I saw every Big XII school there, and they told me that high school play there was on a club level. So don't tell me that "club is where the real soccer is in Texas" that might have been true ten years ago, but it's not now and hasn't been for a couple of years.

All of which is to say that having that level of player at North Texas is a sign of a strong program.

[ascchamp]

i tell you what then go to john hedlund and ask him why he has his son playing for solar soccer club and not just wait till his son is in highschool! and if it weren't for the club soccer to develope players highschools wouldn't have players that play worth crap because all the good high school teams have good club players so take those club players off of the plano highschool soccer team and get just non club players and see how well they compete! No good college coach will simply recruit by seeing a highschool game and as is most don't see highschool! and as for all the big XII schools please Texas is in its 3 year A&M and baylor have been around and then you have Nebraska! any other BIg XII school wouldn't come not iowa state or colorado and tech is a brand new porgram and of all the players that were looked at i bet they all play club! don't be a parent that thinks you know so much when every single girl at unt was recruited from a club team! You think Schellas Hydman as smu goes to california or florida AND LOOKS AT HIGHSCHOOL GAMES!!!! HELL NO! he'll look at dallas cup!(club teams) i've seen him at sun bowl in tampa(club teams) and for girls you have tons of college coach at storm show case(club teams) capital cup in austin( club teams), and WAGS tounament in D.C. so where are all these highschool tournaments and as it is cause of ncaa rules you can't touch anyone in highschool till junior year but you can see them in club their sophomore! nice try and no it isn't a thing of ten years ago! that is why club baseball is getting bigger now! and club volleyball and basketball! the only sport that truly recruits from highschool performances is football!

[Reb UT '70]

You are correct that the club system has raised the level of play and that most of the good players have played club. I challenged your assessment that high school honors were meaningless. I know the club system very well, I've been involved with it for 22 years and have coached at the Div I club level and I've been on selection committees for ODP at the State and Regional level.

I also know all about the club tourneys. They are a great place to watch the kids play. However, you need to go look at your NCAA rules. Texas is not a 3 year program, it was started the same time that all the other former SWC schools started. It is that three years ago they hired a decent coach, who has told me personally that he is looking at how kids play in high school. I know him and his staff and have seen both at high school games.

I also personally know player who have received offers at Big XII, PAC-10 and other NCAA sweet sixteen school who were recruited solely on the basis of their play in high school. Do clubs have a place, sure. But don't be one of those who've bought the propaganda that club is where you have to be. There are a lot of people in the clubs who's livelihood depends on that myth, but it is a myth.

I don't know about how coach Hedlund recruits and if all his players were solely evaluated on the basis of club play, but if he is not going to the high school tourney which are generally held in January when college soccer coaches have more time off then he is missing a bet. There are more and more who are coming, and they are coming because the tourneys you mentioned are so hectic that all they can do is concentrate on the top of their lists. When they come to Georgetown in January or Feb. they can see kids that they don't have time to watch at WAGS. The same thing is true for the state tourney which has been held in Georgetown for several years. Last year there were over a hundred different colleges represented in the stands. So again don't be misled by the club propaganda, yes club is important, but it is not all that is important and those clubs who try to see their kids out of high school play are doing them a disservice.

[Reb UT '70]

As I said I'm a poor writer, but to try to make it clear, I've personally met registered scouts from all the Big XII soccer programs at high school games. Those were not the head coach, but were people who were working on his behalf. I don't know why you think that Tech. Col and Iowa and the others are new programs most of the Div I in this area got started in 1995 the same time that UNT started.

That was Title IX, and a lot of schools picked up women's soccer at that time.

[ascchamp]

i was under the assumption that tech was a brand new program!?? coudl be wrong but hey! and you are correct in saying that what club does is a disservice, i knwo many people that were good players were over looked cause coaches automatically thought they were taken just because of the team they are on, but high doesn't develope players! the majority of high schools have coaches that shouldn't have any busines coaching! and the players are what make the teams not the schools! they are just fortunate that those kids live in that school area! and high schools do a disservice also i knwo kids that live in north fort worth that becaus eof their finaincial situation can't afford club and when it comes to highschool the coaches aren't coaches they are teachers and they don't knwo the ins and out and what it takes to get them loked at my college coaches and these players coudl very easily out play people at west texa or tcu and any other d2 or d3 or naia school in texas! not smu, but any other mens prgram and the same with womans! they both do a disservice! but and no it isn't necessary to play club to go to college but do you think landon donovan was looked at and discovered at highschool play!the reality is that your better players do play clubs and the top players play for good clubs!and yes many people are over looked ! i played for a dallas team that play in super group of dallas cup and we advanced out of our bracket and there still were coaches that wouldn't touch some of our players!, but the majority of our team all ended up at acc teams wich is probably the strongest soccer conference for mens soccer!

[Reb UT '70]

If you wish to check on Tech, I would suggest that you go to their web site

http://texastech.ocsn.com/sports/w-soccer/...am_felix00.html

It talks there about felix being their second head coach and talking over in 1997. BTW Felix is another coach who is starting to talk to high school coaches and to go to high school tourneys.

It sounds like you were part of that Dallas elite club system that develops great players, but what you might not be aware of yet is that many of those kids who were part of the programs in the early '90s are now out of college and many are coaching in Texas High schools. Our Area only has one or two soccer coaches who don't have college playing experience or at least "C" licenses. That is what is changing, and it's changing fast. As it does you will see more work being done in high school, and high school coaches with good college contacts.

You might ask why I think this is important. It is because I want to see soccer grow as a sport, and that just won't happen with the club system. No one comes out to see a great club game, but we averaged almost 300 per home game at Georgetown last year for the girls. Look at the number for UT Austin on their attendance. That isn't going to happen in club. The MLS is looking at starting a minor league because they can't get the college game going, and that is a total shame because all that is keeping it out is Title IX.

MLS isn't making enough money to follow the European system, and I can tell you that their system is so unfair to the kids that I hope the MLS never does. I know quiet a few players who never earned over minimum wage as a pro and never got much playing time and dropped out of their version of high school to do it. Yes Michael Owen has made a lot of money, but has he made enough to balance all those English kids who never finished high school and never made the parent team? I don't think so.

[ascchamp]

i am talking about schools in north texas and in other parts! the austin area might be one thing and you mentioned attendance at Ut well, it is a college i hope they have attendance, their program depends on it! but first of all for people to coach at most any school in texas you also have to teach and no self respecting soccer player is going to go through the hassle to get a teaching degree to coach! if you look at some of the coaches that do teach i bet they don't have Teaching degrees and have some strings pulled so they could get around that! NOw you say the coaching is great in your area! in Georgetown ! well you come up to North Texas and go to the almost 200 highschools in Fort Worth and in Dallas and ARlington and all the other surrounding area cities and you see how many of those coaches are properly qualified, i bet you could count them on 2 hands. Ask any Girl, Ask ALyssa Carrier about her coach at Martin HIghschool which in years past has had some good girls highschool teams. I bet she would say she didn't know what she was doing!you can't compare the georgetown area to the rest of the state! it doesn't have the population first of all, that the north texas area does !

if highschool soccer is changing we are all in for a suprise because now all the good soccer players that don't play club which come a dime a dozen will start to take positions away from club playes! now what i challenge you to do is to go to any good D1 program, including texas, tech, A&M and look at their rosters they all came from highschools and probably played highschool soccer, but find me one player that is on a college roster and plays that was recuited from highschool only and has never ever played one minute of club ball! and i will shut up about it all!

[Reb UT '70]

I think your view of teaching and coaching is warped. Forgive me, but I happen to know some very fine teachers, and I know some very fine high school coaches. The high school coach at RR McNeil for example played on a National Championship College team. A very fine young man, he was in my son's wedding. As was a coach from the Dallas Storm, that coach who is coaching three teams praised what he saw the players getting in high school.

The whole level of play is going up. I watched a tape of a state championship game in Div I U-13 from the late '80s recently, and I was struck by how much progress has been made since then. Most of that is as a result of coaching in clubs, but there has not been the growth in fans. Part of the reason for that is club soccer too. No one except parents and the occasional boy/girl friend watches club and why should they? You said:

"no self respecting soccer player is going to go through the hassle to get a teaching degree to coach!"

I don't think you could be more wrong. I do know several, including some who are currently playing for North Texas. Several are planning to teach, and surely you don't think these girls don't have the experience or talent to coach?

If you would like to check out the Texas high school coaches you might try:

http://www.tascosoccer.org/RegionalTASCO.htm

?well you come up to North Texas and go to the almost 200 highschools in Fort Worth and in Dallas and ARlington and all the other surrounding area cities and you see how many of those coaches are properly qualified, i bet you could count them on 2 hands?

I have talked to Alyssa and to the other girls, I will make it a point the next time I see them to ask about their view of high school soccer. I do know that all the girls played some high school. BTW, I Personally know more than ten qualified coaches from your region, and more are being hired every year.

I agree you won?t find many top program where girls played high school

and not club, but there are D1 programs where that is the case. You might wish to talk to Lance Noble and he will tell you of many who play D1 soccer with out club experience. It?s just too expensive for a lot of kids, in my own case it will take four years of college scholarships to just equal the amount of money I spent on club soccer.

Look there is no question that right now club coaches are doing a good job, my son is one, and he certainly knows what he's doing. However the clubs in this area work with the high schools and that is what is making our clubs and our high schools more competitive. This is why Central Texas is well represented in play-offs and tourneys. If you doubt what I'm say call the coach at Baylor and ask him if he's changed his mind about the quality of Central Texas players. (If you want his phone number I'll be happy to supply it.) The fact is that the club system in Dallas is producing some good players, but it is not helping the sport. It's putting money in the club owners and coaches pockets.

Please try to explain to me how playing club is a good 'investment'. Club soccer is a business, and it is one that preys on kids and parents dreams. I know, I've been watched it for a long time. I've never said that the current players can avoid it, but I do hope that in a few years we'll see junior high soccer and at that point much of the basic need, and there is a need right now to be competitive, will go away. That will be a very good thing in my book.

All this still leaves us on the North Texas sports board. Have you talked to Monica? I know she wishes the girls on the team well, and that this is a hard time for her. Perhaps she would like to speak to this board directly and give some of her side of the issues. Certainly her decision is going to hurt several girls. Having said all that, I will be flabbergasted if these girls don't have a winning season. Which schools do you think will beat us now that shouldn't?

[ascchamp]

Well i see that both of us obvioulsy know many people in the soccer community> i probably shouldn't know as many as i do for my age however i do! I don't agree with your choice of coaches in which to talk to especially Lance Noble Being that i was screwed by him when he took over St. Marys and went to sfa which i believe he is no longer at that program and many girls who have played for him have had problems. however that is neither here nor there. and obviously our views our different, reality is that someone wanting to become a teacher to coach in highschool has to want more then just an opportunity to coach because face it teachers don't make much money and as a coach it isn't an idea situation cause you never know what kind of player or kid you are going to have on your team cause you can't cut them! As long as there is football in texas soccer will never develope in the junior high ranks to properly help highschool coaches!

even though club is a business, i feel that the manner things to happen benefit the kid as in the way the system works and yes the system is flawed but it does have it's advantages. No highschool soccer player will be able to have good college contacts. as i am very lucky to know coaches such as kevin smith, and i knwo the Former Baylor coach(currently Notre dame coach) Randy Waldrum, and others if you want me to continue my list! until soccer gets bigger club is the thing and just cause you haven't got the fans at season games doesn'tr mean it isn't working. you don't get 15 thousand fans to fill lake highland stadium during dallas cup just for no reason people come to see these kids play and that is what they are kids! some colleges don't even have that kind of turn out!! and no i haven't spoken to her in the past 2 days! and

you asked what games they need to woryy about! Nicholls State their first gaem is a measuring stick of what it will be like the rest of the season, cause if they can't beat a 4-13 team the first game they are in for it big time! and the word is out thet denver has some hot new transfers this season and is almosta sure in to reapeat this year!