My Counterpoint To The Hof Discussion

[greenminer]

For fun, I shot the Stephens an email after reviewing the HOF chat/debate. This is a great thread theme, so fire away if you please!

If I may, I would like to provide some counterpoint to the HOF chat I just reviewed. I'm of the opinion that Scott should be in and find some of your rebuttals in the chat to be counterproductive. Two points I would like to address (feel free to disagree! this is just for fun):

1) Stats. Hall had minimal yardage and, in fact, rarely topped 200 yards in his career - let alone 300. I find it unfair to Scott's argument that you are holding this against him but want to put J-Mo, Cobbs, JaQuay and Galbreath ahead of him. Scott's lack of stats were the very bi-product of the same system that gave J-Mo and Co the opportunity to cushion their's. It is of no knock on the RBs that their numbers were inflated because of Dickey's offensive system, and this same system was the very one that limited the chance for Scott to chug it around like we saw Vizza do for two years. How many RBs in Dickey's tenure did not get over 800 yards? I hope that puts some perspective on the stats argument.*

One of my first and most vivid memories of Scott Hall is @ OU in 2001. On the second play from scrimmage he somehow escaped the OU pressure, rolled right and hit a streaking Ja'mel on the sideline for 58 yards. I knew at that point that we had someone special.

...having said that, I know you don't like the single-instance examples for HOF debate. For what it is worth, I think every member of that team will tell you that the reason we had such a successful running game while Scott Hall was "running the Buick" was because of the most consistently effective - and at times dominant - play-action in the conference. Otherwise, they would have just stacked the box.

2) Big games (or OOC). Very quickly, I just want to say there does seem to be a flaw that you want to give longevity high priority and dismiss single instances, yet hold these single games against Scott. And if big-games will count, should QBs be held the blame? Kassell's OOC record was less-than stellar, and nobody held that against him. And unfortunately, only QBs bear the weight of that argument.

*Just for fun, ask yourself how many QBs would average 250 ypg under Dodge's tenure. Do you see a future HOF in Riley if he carries us through 4 unbeaten conference seasons but loses 75% of the OOC games? If the time comes that this Riley debate arrives, I would hope that the understanding is 250 - 300 ypg in Dodge's offense (thus bringing a 3 year career to sum 9K - 10.8K yards) should be put in perspective, and not on a pedestal.

[GrandGreen]

I suspect Hall will be in the HOF. Our fearless bloggers IMO don't consider that Hall was the QB of a run based offense and isn't going to have the numbers of pass first offensive QB's. All he did was lead teams to 3 conference championships something no other QB at NT has ever done. I wanted to be in on that discussion but couldn't make it to campaign for Walter Chapman, who I am sure would have got little support because he was only in a conference his first two years and played before defensive statistics were maintained. Therefore, there is nothing to sell, to those that never saw him play. If those statistics were available, I think they would show that Chapman would be the all time leader in tackles and tackles for loses for a NT defensive lineman. I do think that most that actually saw him play would agree that he should be quickly inducted.

[Harry]

Scott Hall is a hands down first ballot Hall of Famer, period! One of the greatest Field Generals ever to wear the green.

[dentUNiTe]

yes Walter Chapman should definitely be in, no question about it......he played in the CFL for a few years as I recall....

[Guest GrayEagleOne]

The panel says that they are trying to upgrade the requirements for gaining admission to the UNT Sports Hall of Fame. On those grounds Scott Hall may not be voted in on his first eligibility. That may be the announced reason but it's all about politics.

Statistically, Scott Hall is the fourth best quarterback in North Texas" history. Hall of Fame quarterbacks Ken Washington, Vernon Cole, Vidal Carlin, and Jordan Case do not have the numbers that Hall has, to say nothing of three conference championships.

I don't begin to understand the politics involved in the selection. Otherwise, I'd know the reason why it took our best linebacker, Burks Washington, more than 20 years to be admitted to the HOF.

P.S. Put me in the group that says it's been way to long to ignore Walter Chapman.

Edited August 23, 2009 by GrayEagleOne

[GrandGreen]

I applaud the administration (who ever makes these decisions) for trying to make the HOF more exclusive. However, four a year is far from being that exclusive. I really enjoy the bloggers and am amazed at how candid they are in their comments. However, with the criteria they mentioned, it would be difficult to get many players in the HOF. Moral, academic, multi-year stardom, etc. standards; would disqualify many who are already in the HOF. Many of the current HOF players never graduated and in some cases were barely kept in school. Moral factors also in my opinion should not be an issue if the university kept them in school despite transgressions to play sports than obviously it would be very hypocritical to deny them the HOF. Inclusion should be based on the whole career, but IMO players such as Jamario Thomas will be ultimately included. Yes, he only had one great year; but it was a year few football players at NT or elsewhere ever came close to. Again, I will use the old analogy what if he seasons were reversed and he had ending his senior year averaging 180 yards rushing a game. There would absolutely be no question, he would be a quick induction into the hall.

The current HOF football members are a very diverse lot, some where chosen IMO based on program support, pro careers, and some frankly I have little explanation for. All were good football players but some were not exceptional.

Entry into the most prestigious group of NT athletes should be highly selective but based on the player's on the field, pool, track or court accomplishments. For the most part off the field and post NT activities should not be factors in selection. Obviously, there should be some exceptions: no mass murderers, automatic entry for supporters who rival Boone Pickens in level of donations, etc.

[CMJ]

Wish I'd paticipated in the chat. There's couple of guys I woulda asked about. I DO think Hall will eventually get in, but I wouldn't be surprised if it takes a few more years.

Edited August 23, 2009 by CMJ

[GreenBat]

Scott Hall is a hands down first ballot Hall of Famer, period! One of the greatest Field Generals ever to wear the green.

I agree Harry, in fact it was my question about when Scott would be HOF eligible. I was told this year he's eligible. I don't know it that meant he was eligible for this class or he is eligible starting next year. The only quote I need to describe Scott was said in the Idaho game in 2001 were completed 12 of his 18 passes for 145 yards and two touchdowns. The color man on the FOX broadcast said, Scott Hall is tougher than a two dollar steak after being pummeled on back-to-back plays by the Idaho DL.

That quote defines what I want out of a football player that plays for MY SCHOOL.

But S. Howard and Stevie B don't agree and they are the ones making the argument for the nominees.