George Dunham Talking About Football Rankings

[aztecskin]

Ummm. I think we need all the fans we can get, IMO.

UNT has a great game experience to offer. I'll bet there is a big chunk of our alumni base that isn't aware because they haven't given a game a try since before Rick took the reigns as AD. I wish we'd find a way to incent our D/FW alumni to just come to a game so we could get them hooked.

By the way, Craig and Corby both drive me nuts with their OU douchery and relative indifference toward their alma maters.

Again and again and again.

Miller grew up in Oklahoma City. Corby's dad played football at OU. Gee, what a shock that they ended up being OU fans.

Winning cures all of it. We're not winning. While OU is piling on Big 12 championship after Big 12 championship, you are expecting those two to talk UNT and TCU football? Yeah, sure.

LOL. Yes, its so great that everyone leaves at halftime, obviously full of fun, they probably just can't take any more greatness. I'll admit, a UNT game isn't devoid of offense, the other team routinely scores once or 15 times. Give or take a few. Maybe the fun is to be had in the uncomfortable stands? Baking in the sun is always a great experience.

And yes. Winning and being interesting (which is what the PapaDodge thing and the new spread offense were supposed to be) cures it all.

That and the new stadium.

[Green P1]

LOL. Yes, its so great that everyone leaves at halftime, obviously full of fun, they probably just can't take any more greatness. I'll admit, a UNT game isn't devoid of offense, the other team routinely scores once or 15 times. Give or take a few. Maybe the fun is to be had in the uncomfortable stands? Baking in the sun is always a great experience.

And yes. Winning and being interesting (which is what the PapaDodge thing and the new spread offense were supposed to be) cures it all.

That and the new stadium.

That's quite an interesting theory. What does it all mean?

[greenminer]

LOL. Yes, its so great that everyone leaves at halftime, obviously full of fun, they probably just can't take any more greatness. I'll admit, a UNT game isn't devoid of offense, the other team routinely scores once or 15 times. Give or take a few. Maybe the fun is to be had in the uncomfortable stands? Baking in the sun is always a great experience.

And yes. Winning and being interesting (which is what the PapaDodge thing and the new spread offense were supposed to be) cures it all.

That and the new stadium.

Do you fly Southwest?

[UNTLifer]

I think that honor could fall to:

1. Dr Phil, who most don't even know he has a UNT degree.

2. Mean Joe Greene, who on national TV for years would dodge the topic of his alma malter. (Do you wanna hope he never comes back)?

3. Robocop, the savior of New Detroit never mentions UNT.

Mean Joe dodged the topic of his alma mater for years? I never heard that and by the way, he is typically at most of our home games.

Dr. Phil got his Master's at UNT and played football at Tulsa, so I would really expect him to support their program.

Robocop, seriously, who cares.

My beef with Junior Miller is that he got a degree from UNT that allows him to have a well paying job and all he can do is bad mouth the school and suck up to OU. The folks at TCU can complain about Corby.

And I still think George needs to make the bet with Junior.

[FirefightnRick]

Mean Joe dodged the topic of his alma mater for years? I never heard that and by the way, he is typically at most of our home games.

Dr. Phil got his Master's at UNT and played football at Tulsa, so I would really expect him to support their program.

Robocop, seriously, who cares.

My beef with Junior Miller is that he got a degree from UNT that allows him to have a well paying job and all he can do is bad mouth the school and suck up to OU. The folks at TCU can complain about Corby.

And I still think George needs to make the bet with Junior.

I greatly appreciated the fact that Peter Weller came back and did a great deal of work helping the university promote the Centennial Celebration back in '89 and '90.

Rick

[Green Dozer]

Again and again and again.

Miller grew up in Oklahoma City. Corby's dad played football at OU. Gee, what a shock that they ended up being OU fans.

Winning cures all of it. We're not winning. While OU is piling on Big 12 championship after Big 12 championship, you are expecting those two to talk UNT and TCU football? Yeah, sure.

Lonnie,

I see your point about Miller growing up in Oklahoma. Miller never had anything good to say about UNT even during our Sun Belt Conference Championship runs. They did not talk UNT football then. Bet his broadcasting career would not have taken off like it has if had graduated from OU. Might not have hooked up with George, and might not have been able to make the ties to the Dallas Fort Worth market. His UNT degree has been good for him, just like Followill, who used to run us in the ground during his SMU broadcasting days. A guy named Mercer helped him. These guys have dumped on the one who brung 'em so to speak.

[Green Dozer]

I think that honor could fall to:

1. Dr Phil, who most don't even know he has a UNT degree.

2. Mean Joe Greene, who on national TV for years would dodge the topic of his alma malter. (Do you wanna hope he never comes back)?

3. Robocop, the savior of New Detroit never mentions UNT.

When was Joe Green ever asked about his alma mater on National television? We have ridden his name and reputation like a pack mule ever since he left here. University of Miami players are the ones who really go out of their way to mention their alma mater anyway.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Lonnie,

I see your point about Miller growing up in Oklahoma. Miller never had anything good to say about UNT even during our Sun Belt Conference Championship runs. They did not talk UNT football then. Bet his broadcasting career would not have taken off like it has if had graduated from OU. Might not have hooked up with George, and might not have been able to make the ties to the Dallas Fort Worth market. His UNT degree has been good for him, just like Followill, who used to run us in the ground during his SMU broadcasting days. A guy named Mercer helped him. These guys have dumped on the one who brung 'em so to speak.

Yes, we all agree about that. But, NTSU then didn't really do much to attract even its own. Yes, more is being done now. However, when I was on campus from 90-95, the vast majority of college stuff you saw people wearing was for other SWC/Big 8 schools. And, as much as many of us hate to admit it, back then, it really was more of a commuter school. We're still shaking that image.

When all is said and done, people like Craig Miller aren't going to support UNT athletics vocally or openly until the school shows it's serious about it. Otherwise, it's nothing more than a waste of time. As defensive as Dunham is about it, Miller falls more along the lines of the college football observers who believe that UNT is so bush league that it hires high school coaches. We did it twice in 16 years. And, the results with both did nothing but solidify their decision to ignore UNT.

Also, keep in mind that Dunham is on the payroll. It's not like he could dis the department and program even if he wanted to do it. If Miller was on the payroll, I'm sure he'd be singing a different tune as well. Many of you are critical of the program until you talk to someone in it. You fall for their gab...again and again and again. Miller would do the same if he were near the program. By staying away, Miller keeps his objectivity. Dunham will defend Dodge to the grave if he goes 0-12 because he works with him and, therefore, has some emotional attachment.

On this board, the mindset is different. I don't like the hiring of high school coaches. But, I'd rather stand up and have my say - hoping against all hope that it will make a difference when the next hire is made. While Miller is happy OU is winning, I'm unhappy that UNT is losing and will continue to say so until the people in charge correct their mistakes and put the program on the right path.

Rick Villareal has called me. I've been invited to this thing and that by various people. Several players parents have contacted me. I don't go for various reasons. One is that I have two young kids, aged 3 and 1 at home and don't really have time. But, the overarching thing is, I love my alma mater and feel like being too close would also suck me into allowing excuses for losing. We've had too many years of accepting the status quo.

College football became a big business 20 years ago. We are way behind. I'm going to stay on the outside and demand that we do better and move forward rather than becoming friends with everyone and hooking into a buddy system where we all wink and nod at failure because those involved are nice guys. NEWSFLASH - There are many nice guys out there winning. The time has come for our "nice guys" to quit making excuses and win. If not, get the next set of "nice guys" in here and give them a shot at it. It ain't rocket science.

[UNTLifer]

I greatly appreciated the fact that Peter Weller came back and did a great deal of work helping the university promote the Centennial Celebration back in '89 and '90.

Rick

I didn't mean to be disrespectful to Mr. Weller, but outside of Robocop, what has he really done? He's not he household name that other alums are like Mean Joe, Dr. Phil, Don Henley, etc...

My point exactly, Green Dozier, regarding Craig Miller.

[KRAM1]

Lonnie;

You make some excellent points and your position seems to be very well thought out. But, and I am not trying to slam you here at all, it seems some of your positions might be a wee bit self-serving. "Staying on the outside" does not, in my book, mean that you cannot or will not attend events, buy season tickets (I have no clue if you buy tickets or not), become at least casual friends with decision makers at the university, etc., etc. Your support of UNT is definitely not to be questioned by me or anyone else. However, you can only be "sucked in" and have a "different view" than you do if you let yourself be "sucked in". Staying away only gives you the "outsider view". Why not opt for both and perhaps get a different perspective on some things? Anyway, I definitely respect your views, but think if you would "engage" a bit more you may find that things are actually not all "doom and gloom". Anyway, I, for one, appreciate your support for UNT no matter what position you want to take on current "affairs". I just hope you will be "open" to seeing the positives that I think will happen this season with Dodge and Co.

As to Craig Miller...good points, but again, I have a bit of a different take on this and seem to line up more with Green Dozer. Craig Miller does himself nor his employer any good knocking his Alma Mater all the time. He should have listened to his mother when it comes to UNT as she certainly told him "if you don't have something kind to say, don't say anything"...If he thinks OU is so great, well...good for him. Great school...great athletic program...BUT, he graduated from UNT...NOT OU. In my book, his constant knocking of his Alma Mater makes him pretty much a jerk. He is using his quasi-radio personality status to knock the school where he graduated and where he developed the connections that got him to where he sits today. What has OU done for him???? It's easy to support OU (when they are winning...do you recall what he was saying when OU got beat by OSU and several others a few times in the lean years???? Not so vocal about his love for all things OU as I recall during that time. The guy is a "fair weather fan" at best and a plain jerk (about UNT I mean) at worse. Trying to defend his stand on UNT is a lost cause in my book. To me, he is a "who cares" on the local radio scene.

GO MEAN GREEN!

[TIgreen01]

Yes, we all agree about that. But, NTSU then didn't really do much to attract even its own. Yes, more is being done now. However, when I was on campus from 90-95, the vast majority of college stuff you saw people wearing was for other SWC/Big 8 schools. And, as much as many of us hate to admit it, back then, it really was more of a commuter school. We're still shaking that image.

When all is said and done, people like Craig Miller aren't going to support UNT athletics vocally or openly until the school shows it's serious about it. Otherwise, it's nothing more than a waste of time. As defensive as Dunham is about it, Miller falls more along the lines of the college football observers who believe that UNT is so bush league that it hires high school coaches. We did it twice in 16 years. And, the results with both did nothing but solidify their decision to ignore UNT.

Also, keep in mind that Dunham is on the payroll. It's not like he could dis the department and program even if he wanted to do it. If Miller was on the payroll, I'm sure he'd be singing a different tune as well. Many of you are critical of the program until you talk to someone in it. You fall for their gab...again and again and again. Miller would do the same if he were near the program. By staying away, Miller keeps his objectivity. Dunham will defend Dodge to the grave if he goes 0-12 because he works with him and, therefore, has some emotional attachment.

On this board, the mindset is different. I don't like the hiring of high school coaches. But, I'd rather stand up and have my say - hoping against all hope that it will make a difference when the next hire is made. While Miller is happy OU is winning, I'm unhappy that UNT is losing and will continue to say so until the people in charge correct their mistakes and put the program on the right path.

Rick Villareal has called me. I've been invited to this thing and that by various people. Several players parents have contacted me. I don't go for various reasons. One is that I have two young kids, aged 3 and 1 at home and don't really have time. But, the overarching thing is, I love my alma mater and feel like being too close would also suck me into allowing excuses for losing. We've had too many years of accepting the status quo.

College football became a big business 20 years ago. We are way behind. I'm going to stay on the outside and demand that we do better and move forward rather than becoming friends with everyone and hooking into a buddy system where we all wink and nod at failure because those involved are nice guys. NEWSFLASH - There are many nice guys out there winning. The time has come for our "nice guys" to quit making excuses and win. If not, get the next set of "nice guys" in here and give them a shot at it. It ain't rocket science.

After reading your posts for the past few years, I have to say that this is maybe your best---at least we know exactly where you're coming from. I do think there is some general merit to what you say about avoiding a buddy system so you can stay objective. However, I don't know how you can actually affect real change without developing any relationships within UNT. Maybe I'm reading your post wrong, or missed where you've listed who you stay in contact with, but simply writing emails and posting on a message board is most likely not going to yield any tangible results. Then again...maybe you are connected with just a few key people and I (and others) don't know it. Either way, I don't always agree with what you have to say but definitely agree with your passion for UNT and wanting to see it move forward.

[UNT90]

Yes, we all agree about that. But, NTSU then didn't really do much to attract even its own. Yes, more is being done now. However, when I was on campus from 90-95, the vast majority of college stuff you saw people wearing was for other SWC/Big 8 schools. And, as much as many of us hate to admit it, back then, it really was more of a commuter school. We're still shaking that image.

When all is said and done, people like Craig Miller aren't going to support UNT athletics vocally or openly until the school shows it's serious about it. Otherwise, it's nothing more than a waste of time. As defensive as Dunham is about it, Miller falls more along the lines of the college football observers who believe that UNT is so bush league that it hires high school coaches. We did it twice in 16 years. And, the results with both did nothing but solidify their decision to ignore UNT.

Also, keep in mind that Dunham is on the payroll. It's not like he could dis the department and program even if he wanted to do it. If Miller was on the payroll, I'm sure he'd be singing a different tune as well. Many of you are critical of the program until you talk to someone in it. You fall for their gab...again and again and again. Miller would do the same if he were near the program. By staying away, Miller keeps his objectivity. Dunham will defend Dodge to the grave if he goes 0-12 because he works with him and, therefore, has some emotional attachment.

On this board, the mindset is different. I don't like the hiring of high school coaches. But, I'd rather stand up and have my say - hoping against all hope that it will make a difference when the next hire is made. While Miller is happy OU is winning, I'm unhappy that UNT is losing and will continue to say so until the people in charge correct their mistakes and put the program on the right path.

Rick Villareal has called me. I've been invited to this thing and that by various people. Several players parents have contacted me. I don't go for various reasons. One is that I have two young kids, aged 3 and 1 at home and don't really have time. But, the overarching thing is, I love my alma mater and feel like being too close would also suck me into allowing excuses for losing. We've had too many years of accepting the status quo.

College football became a big business 20 years ago. We are way behind. I'm going to stay on the outside and demand that we do better and move forward rather than becoming friends with everyone and hooking into a buddy system where we all wink and nod at failure because those involved are nice guys. NEWSFLASH - There are many nice guys out there winning. The time has come for our "nice guys" to quit making excuses and win. If not, get the next set of "nice guys" in here and give them a shot at it. It ain't rocket science.

I also agree this is one of your best posts ever. I usually don't have the attention span to read a post this long. The highlighted portion is dead on. Let's say in some alternate universe UNT plays and beats OU, who do you think would instantly become a fan of UNT and what was going on with the football program? Craig Miller, that's who. He is the typical casual college fan who will be completely on board with a winner, especially one that he has any attachment to at all (just look at the "I grew up in Ok. City" excuse he uses now).

He is the type of alum that UNT needs to concern itself with impressing and bringing back to campus on Saturday afternoons. The only thing that matters to people like this is winning, not in the Sun Belt, but on a national level. Beat OU, Texas, or, hell, even Tech and see how fast people start becoming fans of the product. Lose 77-21 to Rice and see how fast most of your own alums ignore you.

[MeanMag]

The only thing that matters to people like this is winning, not in the Sun Belt, but on a national level. Beat OU, Texas, or, hell, even Tech

... done... 1997 and 1999. I get your point tho. Tech really wasn't relevant when we beat them.

Our biggest wins in the past decade are in order.

1) Cincinnati

2) Tech

3) Baylor

The only reason cincinnati is up there is only because it was a bowl win. The last of these wins happened 6 years ago.

[aztecskin]

Lonnie is my favorite.

awesome post. sums it up nicely.