Wh Calls Health Care Anger 'manufactured'

UNT90 · August 8, 2009

I sorta tried?
I think it's about time to stop these threads till around April.

Just think what it's going to be like in here if we start out an uncompetitve 0-5. Half the board will be banned.

CMJ · August 8, 2009

Just think what it's going to be like in here if we start out an uncompetitve 0-5. Half the board will be banned.

At least the other half enjoys basketball!

eulesseagle · August 8, 2009

Would you mind pointing me to the reference material where you got these facts regarding the current health care "Bill"? I would love to read and make an educated decision but I am having trouble finding this in print. Please help oh enlightened one.
Did you even read the link that you posted? It is debunking the internet rumor that there will be mandated end of life counseling sessions. The plan will simply pay for that counseling session once every five years if you so choose to participate.
From the link you posted to support your well researched argument.
"2. Text of pp. 425-430 (Section 1233) of the actual health care bill, which, as far as I can tell after wading through several pages of legalese, merely amends Title 18 of the Social Security Act to stipulate that Medicare will pay for — not mandate — "advance care planning consultations" between individuals and physicians every five years, during which a spectrum of end-of-life options can be explained and discussed so said individuals can knowledgeably choose their own treatment preferences in advance:"
Also,
ad hominum is spelled "Ad hominem" Not something I would generally point out in someones post but it is rare for someone to misspell a word that they are incorrectly using while touting their intellectual superiority. For future reference you must first be making a fact based argument yourself. Then, when I attack it's validity because you have a DWI, ad hominem!
I wish you luck on future posting. One day I only hope that I can snatch the pebble from your hand.
Oh. I almost forgot. Yes Nazis are bad. Have a good day.

eulesseagle · August 8, 2009

Would you mind pointing me to the reference material where you got these facts regarding the current health care "Bill"? I would love to read and make an educated decision but I am having trouble finding this in print. Please help oh enlightened one.
Did you even read the link that you posted? It is debunking the internet rumor that there will be mandated end of life counseling sessions. The plan will simply pay for that counseling session once every five years if you so choose to participate.
From the link you posted to support your well researched argument.
"2. Text of pp. 425-430 (Section 1233) of the actual health care bill, which, as far as I can tell after wading through several pages of legalese, merely amends Title 18 of the Social Security Act to stipulate that Medicare will pay for — not mandate — "advance care planning consultations" between individuals and physicians every five years, during which a spectrum of end-of-life options can be explained and discussed so said individuals can knowledgeably choose their own treatment preferences in advance:"
Also,
ad hominum is spelled "Ad hominem" Not something I would generally point out in someones post but it is rare for someone to misspell a word that they are incorrectly using while touting their intellectual superiority. For future reference you must first be making a fact based argument yourself. Then, when I attack it's validity because you have a DWI, ad hominem!
I wish you luck on future posting. One day I only hope that I can snatch the pebble from your hand.
Oh. I almost forgot. Yes Nazis are bad. Have a good day.

HE-

1. if you really read my post, like a college graduate, my references are there. you are a college graduate, maybe??

2. i really do not care if you do not like how i may misspell a couple of words.

3. like i said in my post you can not refute anything i said because it is the truth.....that is why you go ad hominem

4. any questions?? please get the burr out of your saddle.

****i will give you a hint: take a look where i said i got some of the information and look at both links*****

Edited August 8, 2009 by eulesseagle

emmitt01 · August 9, 2009

Our current health care does not need to be under federal control not unless one feels that the government should micromanage every aspect of our lives. This is still, somewhat, a capitalistic society. Anyone who needs medical care can receive medical care.....even illegals. The health care bill is just another in a series of legislations to tax....tax....tax. Example: Social Security. Does anyone really think all the tax that is taken out of our paychecks really goes into the Social Security? If you do then why does Congress says it is broke.....you know like no money in the pot. Example: Gasoline tax to fix the highways. Same as above. The list continues. Where does that money go?
Someone mentioned NAZI. National "SOCIALIST" Party. If one wants to draw comparisons to the 1930s look what Hitler's party accomplished. Nationalized health care, nationalized the auto industry, their version of the Cap and Trade (they really are big on clean air and the environment), nationalized the banks and nationalized the media, the blaming of factions of the conservative party as radical just to name five. The government has not, yet, nationalized the media but I would believe there is a push to do so under the guize of the "Hush Rush" bill. Aw, Stalin and Mao did the same thing.
Concerning the health care bill there are some interesting aspects of the bill.
1. All doctors will make the same.
2. There will be limited care more so directed at the young workers and to a lesser degree the older.
3. There will be "end of life" counseling every few years after one reaches a certain age.
4. If a doctor does not fix your problem right the first time the chances of you getting a second appointment will almost be moot. Something to do with the sucess rate of doctor/patient percentages that is government mandated.
5. No choice of doctors....the government will assign you one.
....got this from a Missouri television host who has actually read the health care bill and had a copy with some of the disturbing items highlighted a couple of days ago.
6. All illegals ----still---- receive all benefits of health care.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&...=5&t=903496
http://urbanlegends.about.com/b/2009/07/27...5-the-truth.htm
The bill is dangerous and IS NOT needed in a free democratic society.
of course there will be some on this board who will do their usual ad hominum which equates to being intellectually bankrupt because they actually have no opinion of discourse and can not defend their viewpoint. i think this is so because it is hard to argue against the truth.
ee

You're a poopy head. And I don't like your clothes. Oh yeah, and deez nuts.

Nothing I wrote above rises above the intellectual level of a third grader. Similarly, nothing you have ever posted requires it. Please, pretty please, pass off the pseudo-intellectualism to someone else. Oh, and before you reply, I know you are but what am I?

Shuke-D · August 9, 2009

If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get away immediately. Seek shelter and cover head.

Happy Fun Ball may stick to certain types of skin.

When not in use, Happy Fun Ball should be returned to its special container and kept under refrigeration...

Failure to do so relieves the makers of Happy Fun Ball, Wacky Products Incorporated, and its parent company Global Chemical Unlimited, of any and all liability.

Ingredients of Happy Fun Ball include an unknown glowing substance which fell to Earth, presumably from outer space.

Happy Fun Ball has been shipped to our troops in Saudi Arabia and is also being dropped by our warplanes on Iraq.

Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.

Happy Fun Ball comes with a lifetime guarantee.

Happy Fun Ball

ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUTES!

UNTflyer · August 9, 2009

Why is nationalized health care the only answer, and why the rush?

Wanna reduce health care costs? let's do something about crap like this:

In the past six years, eight people from Austin and one from Luling racked up 2,678 emergency room visits in Central Texas, costing hospitals, taxpayers and others $3 million, according to a report from a nonprofit made up of hospitals and other providers that care for the uninsured and low-income Central Texans.

One of the nine spent more than a third of last year in the ER: 145 days. That same patient totaled 554 ER visits from 2003 through 2008.

http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news.../01/0401er.html

This started with the law that required ERs to accept all patients. While the noble intention was to prevent racial discrimination, the unintended consequence is that the poor use the ER as their primary care physician. We need to give ERs the ability to turn away non-emergency cases.

FirefightnRick · August 9, 2009

Why is nationalized health care the only answer, and why the rush?
Wanna reduce health care costs? let's do something about crap like this:
In the past six years, eight people from Austin and one from Luling racked up 2,678 emergency room visits in Central Texas, costing hospitals, taxpayers and others $3 million, according to a report from a nonprofit made up of hospitals and other providers that care for the uninsured and low-income Central Texans.
One of the nine spent more than a third of last year in the ER: 145 days. That same patient totaled 554 ER visits from 2003 through 2008.
http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news.../01/0401er.html
This started with the law that required ERs to accept all patients. While the noble intention was to prevent racial discrimination, the unintended consequence is that the poor use the ER as their primary care physician. We need to give ERs the ability to turn away non-emergency cases.

We have had to deal with several of these people on my side of town. All of them exist for one reason: To Drink. Our latest and worst, who I'm willing to bet was picked up by our EMS system 6 out of ever 7 days was named Al, or Alfred. Ask any cop, any Medic or any FF in Fort Worth and they have an Al story. My most memorable one and one I won't soon forget was when one time having to pick him up and carry him to the cot I slipped on the $hit oozing out from the bottom of his pants legs and we both hit the floor, him laughing all the way about it and yelling "Your crushing my cigarettes you mother fu....!". John Peter Smith actually had a recliner for him in the emergency entrance hall way for him to sleep it off when MedStar brought him in. Al's amazing body finally gave up on him earlier in the year. How a human being was able to endure what he did to himself is astonishing. Since then we have had several who has taken his place. One we know as "Pizza face", from all the puss-oozing sores he has all over his face. It never ceases to amaze me how someone can just lay there in the sun and let the flys and ants eat on them? Another one we call "Beat Up Billy". He gets the crap beat out of him if he doesn't do what his pimp tells him to do. Twice we've had to wrap his right eye ball up to try and keep it from completely falling out of it's socket after getting rolled from turning tricks.

Rick

Edited August 9, 2009 by FirefightnRick

HoustonEagle · August 9, 2009

HE-
1. if you really read my post, like a college graduate, my references are there. you are a college graduate, maybe??
2. i really do not care if you do not like how i may misspell a couple of words.
3. like i said in my post you can not refute anything i said because it is the truth.....that is why you go ad hominem
4. any questions?? please get the burr out of your saddle.
****i will give you a hint: take a look where i said i got some of the information and look at both links*****

EE, you actually sourced a link that debunked a portion of your own argument. That is awesome! Not to mention the second source you added was from a message board titled AR-15. That's like me claiming that UNT is the best football team in the Nation and sourcing GoMeanGreen.com.

Then to put the cherry on top you used "ad hominem" incorrectly and then proceeded to attack my education. Please please please tell me you see the irony in that! OH my God my sides hurt, I am laughing at you so hard. You do know what "ad hominem" means right? So funny.

You are such a wonderfully simple person. Now go run in your wheel and let more capable people like Flyer debate your side of the argument.

CMJ · August 9, 2009

If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get away immediately. Seek shelter and cover head.
Happy Fun Ball may stick to certain types of skin.
When not in use, Happy Fun Ball should be returned to its special container and kept under refrigeration...
Failure to do so relieves the makers of Happy Fun Ball, Wacky Products Incorporated, and its parent company Global Chemical Unlimited, of any and all liability.
Ingredients of Happy Fun Ball include an unknown glowing substance which fell to Earth, presumably from outer space.
Happy Fun Ball has been shipped to our troops in Saudi Arabia and is also being dropped by our warplanes on Iraq.
Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.
Happy Fun Ball comes with a lifetime guarantee.
Happy Fun Ball
ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUTES!

That was one of the best SNL commercials ever. :lol:

meangreendork · August 9, 2009

Why is nationalized health care the only answer, and why the rush?
Wanna reduce health care costs? let's do something about crap like this:
In the past six years, eight people from Austin and one from Luling racked up 2,678 emergency room visits in Central Texas, costing hospitals, taxpayers and others $3 million, according to a report from a nonprofit made up of hospitals and other providers that care for the uninsured and low-income Central Texans.
One of the nine spent more than a third of last year in the ER: 145 days. That same patient totaled 554 ER visits from 2003 through 2008.
http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news.../01/0401er.html
This started with the law that required ERs to accept all patients. While the noble intention was to prevent racial discrimination, the unintended consequence is that the poor use the ER as their primary care physician. We need to give ERs the ability to turn away non-emergency cases.

It's one of the things covered in the health care reform bill - educating people about better overall care for themselves and getting them into a doctor's office early, when the fix is only a few hundred and not when they have to go to the ER when the sickness or injury becomes life-threatening. I think there's more consideration for free clinics as well, as it's better to spend the money on free, preventative care as opposed to dealing with a massive hospital case that'll never be paid off by the patient. It's not the best solution (which is really impossible anyways) but it's better than nothing.

It's also one of the programs that don't need to be cut. There are a myriad of other portions of the reform pack that need to be cut, though.

Oh, EE:

One of your sources is a post from a forum...which is from a post from another forum/non-news entity. Very trustworthy source.

The other one basically says "this program is offered to a patient and is optional and not mandatory."

Great work, kid.

Edited August 9, 2009 by meangreendork

UNTflyer · August 9, 2009

It's one of the things covered in the health care reform bill - educating people about better overall care for themselves and getting them into a doctor's office early, when the fix is only a few hundred and not when they have to go to the ER when the sickness or injury becomes life-threatening. I think there's more consideration for free clinics as well, as it's better to spend the money on free, preventative care as opposed to dealing with a massive hospital case that'll never be paid off by the patient. It's not the best solution (which is really impossible anyways) but it's better than nothing.
It's also one of the programs that don't need to be cut. There are a myriad of other portions of the reform pack that need to be cut, though.

We don't need to nationalize health care to address the problem of non-emergency ER visits.

HoustonEagle · August 9, 2009

I have been searching tonight for a website that would help those of us looking to sift through the rhetoric and lies coming from both sides of the aisle.

This is what I came up with:

Politifact St. Petersburg Times

Please take a look and tell me what you think. The site seems even keel with equal punishment going out to both sides when they are out of bounds. When you click on their responses you well get a well documented explanation of the topic. Evidentally they won a Pulitzer for their work. Good enough for me.

eulesseagle · August 9, 2009

I have been searching tonight for a website that would help those of us looking to sift through the rhetoric and lies coming from both sides of the aisle.
This is what I came up with:
Politifact St. Petersburg Times
Please take a look and tell me what you think. The site seems even keel with equal punishment going out to both sides when they are out of bounds. When you click on their responses you well get a well documented explanation of the topic. Evidentally they won a Pulitzer for their work. Good enough for me.

• Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure!

• Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!

• Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process)

• Page 42: The "Health Choices Commissioner" will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.

• Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.

• Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard.

• Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.

• Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (read: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)

• Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.

• Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)

• Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens

• Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.

• Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.

• Page 124: No company can sue the government for price-fixing. No "judicial review" is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed.

• Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.

• Page 145: An employer MUST auto-enroll employees into the government-run public plan. No alternatives.

• Page 126: Employers MUST pay healthcare bills for part-time employees AND their families.

• Page 149: Any employer with a payroll of $400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll

• Page 150: Any employer with a payroll of $250K-400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays a 2 to 6% tax on payroll

• Page 167: Any individual who doesnt' have acceptable healthcare (according to the government) will be taxed 2.5% of income.

• Page 170: Any NON-RESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes (Americans will pay for them).

• Page 195: Officers and employees of Government Healthcare Bureaucracy will have access to ALL American financial and personal records.

• Page 203: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax." Yes, it really says that.

• Page 239: Bill will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors and the poor most affected."

• Page 241: Doctors: no matter what speciality you have, you'll all be paid the same (thanks, AMA!)

• Page 253: Government sets value of doctors' time, their professional judgment, etc.

• Page 265: Government mandates and controls productivity for private healthcare industries.

• Page 268: Government regulates rental and purchase of power-driven wheelchairs.

• Page 272: Cancer patients: welcome to the wonderful world of rationing!

• Page 280: Hospitals will be penalized for what the government deems preventable re-admissions.

• Page 298: Doctors: if you treat a patient during an initial admission that results in a readmission, you will be penalized by the government.

• Page 317: Doctors: you are now prohibited for owning and investing in healthcare companies!

• Page 318: Prohibition on hospital expansion. Hospitals cannot expand without government approval.

• Page 321: Hospital expansion hinges on "community" input: in other words, yet another payoff for ACORN.

• Page 335: Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures: i.e., rationing.

• Page 341: Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans, HMOs, etc.

• Page 354: Government will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals.

• Page 379: More bureaucracy: Telehealth Advisory Committee (healthcare by phone).

• Page 425: More bureaucracy: Advance Care Planning Consult: Senior Citizens, assisted suicide, euthanasia?

• Page 425: Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. Mandatory. Appears to lock in estate taxes ahead of time.

• Page 425: Goverment provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death.

• Page 427: Government mandates program that orders end-of-life treatment; government dictates how your life ends.

• Page 429: Advance Care Planning Consult will be used to dictate treatment as patient's health deteriorates. This can include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. An ORDER from the GOVERNMENT.

• Page 430: Government will decide what level of treatments you may have at end-of-life.

• Page 469: Community-based Home Medical Services: more payoffs for ACORN.

• Page 472: Payments to Community-based organizations: more payoffs for ACORN.

• Page 489: Government will cover marriage and family therapy. Government intervenes in your marriage.

• Page 494: Government will cover mental health services: defining, creating and rationing those services.

***we will just replace some unknown person's OPINION, that you posted by FACT.....and.....naturally......what page you can find it on. do you really believe that posting some blog is the definitive fact sheet??? hahahahahaha

Edited August 9, 2009 by eulesseagle

HoustonEagle · August 9, 2009

• Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure!
• Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!
• Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process)
• Page 42: The "Health Choices Commissioner" will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.
• Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.
• Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard.
• Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.
• Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (read: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)
• Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.
• Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)
• Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens
• Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.
• Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.
• Page 124: No company can sue the government for price-fixing. No "judicial review" is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed.
• Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.
• Page 145: An employer MUST auto-enroll employees into the government-run public plan. No alternatives.
• Page 126: Employers MUST pay healthcare bills for part-time employees AND their families.
• Page 149: Any employer with a payroll of $400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll
• Page 150: Any employer with a payroll of $250K-400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays a 2 to 6% tax on payroll
• Page 167: Any individual who doesnt' have acceptable healthcare (according to the government) will be taxed 2.5% of income.
• Page 170: Any NON-RESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes (Americans will pay for them).
• Page 195: Officers and employees of Government Healthcare Bureaucracy will have access to ALL American financial and personal records.
• Page 203: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax." Yes, it really says that.
• Page 239: Bill will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors and the poor most affected."
• Page 241: Doctors: no matter what speciality you have, you'll all be paid the same (thanks, AMA!)
• Page 253: Government sets value of doctors' time, their professional judgment, etc.
• Page 265: Government mandates and controls productivity for private healthcare industries.
• Page 268: Government regulates rental and purchase of power-driven wheelchairs.
• Page 272: Cancer patients: welcome to the wonderful world of rationing!
• Page 280: Hospitals will be penalized for what the government deems preventable re-admissions.
• Page 298: Doctors: if you treat a patient during an initial admission that results in a readmission, you will be penalized by the government.
• Page 317: Doctors: you are now prohibited for owning and investing in healthcare companies!
• Page 318: Prohibition on hospital expansion. Hospitals cannot expand without government approval.
• Page 321: Hospital expansion hinges on "community" input: in other words, yet another payoff for ACORN.
• Page 335: Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures: i.e., rationing.
• Page 341: Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans, HMOs, etc.
• Page 354: Government will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals.
• Page 379: More bureaucracy: Telehealth Advisory Committee (healthcare by phone).
• Page 425: More bureaucracy: Advance Care Planning Consult: Senior Citizens, assisted suicide, euthanasia?
• Page 425: Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. Mandatory. Appears to lock in estate taxes ahead of time.
• Page 425: Goverment provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death.
• Page 427: Government mandates program that orders end-of-life treatment; government dictates how your life ends.
• Page 429: Advance Care Planning Consult will be used to dictate treatment as patient's health deteriorates. This can include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. An ORDER from the GOVERNMENT.
• Page 430: Government will decide what level of treatments you may have at end-of-life.
• Page 469: Community-based Home Medical Services: more payoffs for ACORN.
• Page 472: Payments to Community-based organizations: more payoffs for ACORN.
• Page 489: Government will cover marriage and family therapy. Government intervenes in your marriage.
• Page 494: Government will cover mental health services: defining, creating and rationing those services.
***we will just replace some unknown person's OPINION, that you posted by FACT.....and.....naturally......what page you can find it on. do you really believe that posting some blog is the definitive fact sheet??? hahahahahaha

Run along now. Adults are trying to have a conversation.

eulesseagle · August 9, 2009

HE- are you having a hard time refuting the truth???? truth: one.......propaganda: zero

HoustonEagle · August 9, 2009

Hi EE. Are you having fun on the computer again? Precious.

Rudy · August 10, 2009

• Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.
• Page 195: Officers and employees of Government Healthcare Bureaucracy will have access to ALL American financial and personal records.

Those are what we call 4th Amendment violations.

yyz28 · August 10, 2009

As I will continue to ask to you conservative non-thinkers. Is there a problem? If you believe the answer is Yes. Then present a better plan to fix it than what has been presented. If you believe the answer is no, then bury your head back in the sand and let the other Right-Wing jack-booted thugs continue to destroy America.

FAIL! I know this will shock you, but there are more than one thread on this subject. ...a far more thoughtful request asking "if not this, then what would YOU do?" was asked in another thread over a month ago by Harry.

Senate Health Committee Clears Insurance Overhaul

...and here was my response:

Harry, this is a thoughtful question. First, I don't want to speak for anyone, but I don't think many of us who are against THIS proposal are opposed to reform of some sort, but the reform needs to address the "why do we have the problems you listed in the first place, and how do we control them" question.

One of the prime reasons healhcare costs are skyrocketing is because there is more demand due to an aging population bubble and uncontrolled immigration. In addition government is not paying for the obligations it has already made to the healthcare industry via the medicare and medicaid programs. Additionally, health care providers are over-burdened with paperwork requirements to satisfiy the government, regulatory boards, HIPAA compliance and have sky-high malpractice insurance rates, which has continued to climb while congress after congress (which is full of lawers) refuse to address the issue of tort reform. Most doctors I know spend more time, either through their own hard work, or through salaries they pay multiple assistants, to keep up with the alredy out of control paperwork, regulation and red tape the government has already created.

Many folks choose to be uninsured, as a result of their priorities. As Rick has demonstrated here, insurance premiums monthly are expensive, but not cost prohibititve if prioritized for. Individuals, not government, should set these priorities.

How would I fix it?

1. This is one of the few places where I would be against states rights - there needs to be a uniform code by which insurance can be written so insurance companies may control their costs and the same plan in New Jersey may be sold in Texas, by the same company, as opposed to the way it is now. Allow smaller companies who are only in one state or another compete with other companies and the big boys in all 50 states.

2. Tort Reform. If we're going to get anything done that will begin to IMMEDIATLEY lessen the burden on the healthcare system and allow rates to come down, THIS is what should be done by August.

3. Pour through the massive piles of law and regulation that currently control the medical profession and clean it up so that medical professionals spend more time with patients and less time with paperwork.

4. Secure the borders.

5. Deny all but life saving care to illegal immigrants and their families.

6. Allow small and medium sized businesses to band together to pursue more cost effective insurance for their employees with a system that doesn't have the problems the current one does (groups don't all have to buy the same insurance for everyone, one company is not penalized if other members fail, downsize or go out of business, etc.

Harry, I guess the point that Rick is trying to make, and I happen to agree with it, is that NO reform is better than what is being proposed. Even if you are for reform, you can't seriously be for the plan that is before congress unless you want government run, mandated and controlled coverage, because that is the net of what this bill is going to give us, despite the promises from the President. Either he's lying or he doesn't know what is in the bill. There is a provision that was uncovered yesterday that I think has been posted in this discussion that literally kills private coverage in one shot. The provision calls for no more private policies to be written once the new government policy is in place. This will cause insurance companies to go out of business very quickly as businesses dump their coverage since the national plan will be available. This plan penalizes any individual who doesn't have, want or need health insurance by forcing them to have insurance, and pay into the system via a compusary tax. Just like Social Security (which is broke) just like medicare (which is broke) and just like California does (...and that state... is B R O K E!!!) That's not freedom. That's not choice.

We the people can't pay for the obligations this government has made as it is. EVERY social program in this country is either broke or headed in that direction. This program can not be sustained without ever higher taxes, and should be defeated at all costs. We should not destroy the healthcare of the 85% of the population who has it to give lesser coverage to the 15% who don't have it, many of whom don't have it by choice.

The constant drumbeat and repetition of the "if you are against Obamacare, you are for the status quo" couldn't be further from the truth. Many of us have ideas that would help control the cost of healthcare and make it more affordable to people even of minimal means. There are several alternatives to what has been suggested by this President and congress that have been introduced by Republican leaders that have every opportunity to work. ...and NONE of them will throw out our system in favor of a socialist national government run system, so if our ideas fail, the entire system doesn't get destroyed. If our ideas fail, national healthcare is still an option. Very few people in this country are actually uninsured for an extended period of time who actually WANT to be insured. This is a made-up crisis, and the system being proposed by the Obama administration and Congress will do severe, permanant damage to health care in this country and as well as around the world. The rest of the world who has socialized medicine waits for us to innovate and then they use what we come up with. What happens when the free market forces that lead to innovation go away? Giving the government control over your healthcare, your VERY LIFE, means you are giving up your freedom.

Edited August 10, 2009 by yyz28

HoustonEagle · August 10, 2009

Easy to search format of a Health Care Bill

Here ya go folks. I assume most of the emails you are receiving and the forums you are reading are referring to this version of the proposed legislation. Granted the legislative process is far from over but I digress. This format is easily search-able so if you have a page number to work with you can go straight there. I do not by any means agree with everything in this Bill. I also do not allow others to tell me what is in it without checking myself.

You can also check with Politifact or Snopes

eulesseagle · August 10, 2009

why fix something that ain't broke. we don't need a new system. anybody in the USA can get medical attention.

FirefightnRick · August 11, 2009

When asked during the ABC News Health Care Reform Town Hall back in June by this woman if her 100 year old mother (now 105), would have recieved her pace maker under his plan his answer was:

Barack Obama: "We're not going to solve every difficult problem in terms of end-of-life-care, a lot of that is gonna to have to be, we as a culture and as a society, starting to make better decisions within our own families, and uh, for ourselves, but what we can do is make sure that at least some of the waste that exists in the system that's not making anybody's mom better, uh, that is loading up on additional tests or additional drugs that the evidence shows that is not necessarily gonna improve care, that at least we can let doctors know, and your mom know, that you know what, that maybe this, isn't gonna help. Maybe your better off, uh, not having the surgery, but taking, uh, the pain killer"

Did he really say that?

Hey, who you gonna believe, Obama or YOUR LYIN' EYES?????

U-dQfb8WQvo

Rick

Edited August 11, 2009 by FirefightnRick

HoustonEagle · August 11, 2009

When asked during the ABC News Health Care Reform Town Hall back in June by this woman if her 100 year old mother (now 105), would have received her pace maker under his plan his answer was:
Barack Obama: "We're not going to solve every difficult problem in terms of end-of-life-care, a lot of that is gonna to have to be, we as a culture and as a society, starting to make better decisions within our own families, and uh, for ourselves, but what we can do is make sure that at least some of the waste that exists in the system that's not making anybody's mom better, uh, that is loading up on additional tests or additional drugs that the evidence shows that is not necessarily gonna improve care, that at least we can let doctors know, and your mom know, that you know what, that maybe this, isn't gonna help. Maybe your better off, uh, not having the surgery, but taking, uh, the pain killer"
Did he really say that?
Hey, who you gonna believe, Obama or YOUR LYIN' EYES?????
U-dQfb8WQvo
Rick

Politifact

Obama used the question to segue into the "comparative effectiveness research center" aspect of the current House Bill. I will hand it to you, it came off as cold. Sarah Palin has been attacking this as the death squad. In the end it actually has no power to mandate coverage or allowed to be controlled politically. If you would like to learn some more about what he was talking about please see the link above.

Edited August 11, 2009 by HoustonEagle

eeally · August 11, 2009

When asked during the ABC News Health Care Reform Town Hall back in June by this woman if her 100 year old mother (now 105), would have recieved her pace maker under his plan his answer was:
Barack Obama: "We're not going to solve every difficult problem in terms of end-of-life-care, a lot of that is gonna to have to be, we as a culture and as a society, starting to make better decisions within our own families, and uh, for ourselves, but what we can do is make sure that at least some of the waste that exists in the system that's not making anybody's mom better, uh, that is loading up on additional tests or additional drugs that the evidence shows that is not necessarily gonna improve care, that at least we can let doctors know, and your mom know, that you know what, that maybe this, isn't gonna help. Maybe your better off, uh, not having the surgery, but taking, uh, the pain killer"
Did he really say that?
Hey, who you gonna believe, Obama or YOUR LYIN' EYES?????
U-dQfb8WQvo
Rick

Ok Rick....you saw the youtube ... so please tell me that you graduated from UNT and can understand what he was saying? Just kidding...I know you are a very intelligent person who is passionate about your beliefs. I respect that.....

I know it is easy to hear what you want to hear. Like I said you are an intelligent person that can hear a discussion....Please post that you do understand that he was answering a general question on healthcare and how to look at the current problem .... and he was not saying to that lady hey if it were up to me I would have given her a Vicadin and let her die!

It was a discussion of healthcare not a discussion of a 105 yr old lady

Cerebus · August 11, 2009

1) Keep it civil.

2) If anyone actually wants to read HR 3200, here it is at the Library of Congress: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.3200:

3) There are all sorts of studies and facts out there for people to read, not just opinion, the interwebs are your friend: Surviving Cancer: US vs Europe