This Year Vs. Last Year Analysis

NT03 · July 30, 2009

When did you just lose it, Rick? Is it the politics? You can tell me - this is a safe house. The democrats can't hurt you on this part of the board.

FirefightnRick · July 30, 2009

When did you just lose it, Rick? Is it the politics? You can tell me - this is a safe house. The democrats can't hurt you on this part of the board.

Lose what?

Rick

Quoner · July 30, 2009

Lose what?
Rick

You've just been so mad lately. We worry.

Stan R · July 30, 2009

GOOD THINGS ARE HAPPENING FOR REACTIONARY POSTS!

FirefightnRick · July 30, 2009

You've just been so mad lately. We worry.

It's not even October. No reason to get mad yet.

Rick

Quoner · July 30, 2009

It's not even October. No reason to get mad yet.
Rick

Agreed - and hopefully no reason to get mad after.

Censored by Laurie · July 30, 2009

I'll be taking that...thank you.

TheTastyGreek · July 30, 2009

Tasty,
Here is what I was responding to in this thread posted by TFLF: "Due to Dodge and Ford's offense, he'll take a ton more hits than if his dad would use his brain and move him to defensive back or receiver where he belongs at this level."
No qualifier about BCS schools. Present tense, he said he should be moved to another position.
I guess the Tune for starting QB campaign has begun?
That is why I responded.

I missed that... Thought I'd read through everything very thoroughly.

Sorry about that, I stand corrected. Still, though... One guy, one line, out of dozens of responses across four pages (at the time). Not that I should have overreacted so strongly, but then again that apology is a private one.

SilverEagle · July 30, 2009

It's not even October. No reason to get mad yet.
Rick

...and besides, getting mad in October is my job. Let's see, since they changed the route of the assistant coaching staff going up to the press box, I might need to add a megaphone to my fall football supplies.

FirefightnRick · July 30, 2009

...and besides, getting mad in October is my job. Let's see, since they changed the route of the assistant coaching staff going up to the press box, I might need to add a megaphone to my fall football supplies.

:lol:

Rick

Green Lantern · July 30, 2009

...and besides, getting mad in October is my job. Let's see, since they changed the route of the assistant coaching staff going up to the press box, I might need to add a megaphone to my fall football supplies.

This made me giggle.

The Fake Lonnie Finch · July 30, 2009

Amazing, isn't it.

Last year, I praised the playing of Riley at WR because that's where he should be...or safety. He's a good athlete, but he's not a college QB. There's nothing wrong with that, hundreds of kids each year who have played QB in high school get switched to WR or DB by their college coaches. And, the reason is that you want your 11 best athletes on the field on both sides of the ball.

As thin as we were at receiver last season, we needed someone else in the mix. The only way I'd have handled it differently is to have waited a game or two longer to throw him in there. And, last year, that would have been the perfect time because it would have been at about the time Sam Dibrell bailed.

Look, I know that many of you are enamored of the what you think is the Dodge family mystique. The problem is, opposing defenses could care less. To them, it's just another game, another coach, and another QB. And, unfortunately for us, it's a coach that they haven't had a difficult time defending.

If Dodge is true to his word, only having tight ends 1/3 of the time (I think he's exaggerating about how much he intends to use the tight end, but that's a whole different discussion), it doesn't mater who's back there, the pressure is going to be relentless...again. You're still giving opposing defensive coordinators too many opportunities to blitz. Riley is a good four or so inches shorter than Vizza and weighs, at minimum, 15 to 20 pounds less. He'll be hard pressed to match Vizza's 62+% completion percentage on the plays where he does manage to stay upright.

Some of you talk about Urban Meyer and Mack Brown and Bob Stoops and their spreads, and somehow want to correlate that to Dodge. [Coach Hines Voice and Leg Kick]Not even close[/Coach Hines Voice and Leg Kick]. Those coaches regularly employ tight ends, and they all use a fullback as well. And, they each try to establish a successful run game as well as passing game - even when they're in the gun.

Furthermore, Todd Dodge, at the college level, has not even come close to demonstrating the ability to either (1) produce a successful gameplan against defenses at this level, or (2) adjust during the game or halftime when his gameplan isn't working.

And, yes, I know that Rick Villareal and bunch of the rest of you want to continue to blame Darrell Dickey and the "condition of this program when he left" and all of that other garbage. It's nothing but excuses. I've had it thrown at me in a personal conversation with him and I've read it enough times here. It's nothing but an excuse to fail.

Mack Brown didn't run around making excuses not to succeed because of John Mackovic's mess. Bob Stoops didn't waste time crying about the Chinese fire drill of a wreck John Blake left the OU program in before he arrived. And, those guys were having to rebuild it on the fly in one of the two toughest conferences in the nation (the SEC being the other).

We sure as heck weren't as bad off as FUI when Mario Cristobal took over that program. And, somehow, he's managed to not get his school's football program embarassed week after week with the type of thrashings we've had over the past two seasons. But, again...Cristobal's background before he was hired versus Dodge's. I'm just sayin'...and reiterating.

At some point, you cut the talk and get down to chalk. It's time for the coaches to prove their mettle. They either have the ability to get a group of players competitive in...the SUN BELT Conference...or they don't. If they don't (again), for Pete's pepper, cut the dadgum thing loose and get on down the road with the next chump. You owe it to the players who have committed their four or five years of eligibility to play here to have someone leading them that knows what the Sam Hill blazes they are doing.

(Coach Hines reference, for the uninitiated: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y04wkGhaNe4 )

TIgreen01 · July 30, 2009

At some point, you cut the talk and get down to chalk. It's time for the coaches to prove their mettle. They either have the ability to get a group of players competitive in...the SUN BELT Conference...or they don't. If they don't (again), for Pete's pepper, cut the dadgum thing loose and get on down the road with the next chump. You owe it to the players who have committed their four or five years of eligibility to play here to have someone leading them that knows what the Sam Hill blazes they are doing.

Great paragraph. Absolutely no arguments here.

Hopefully we see proof that things are turning around this year.

TIgreen01 · July 30, 2009

Reading through a lot of these points, it seems that those who claim positivity across multiple categories base most of their conclusions on conjecture, at best.
Recruits, even if highly touted, have a big bag of nothing until they can prove it on the field. To be honest, kids more often than not will fizzle after getting to campus. How many difference makers do we currently have on the team? Of those, how many were difference makers during their first year playing? It would be a tremendous statistical anomaly to have new guys show up and contribute at every position of need. Very few of these guys, historically speaking, turn into impact players. I used to have an easy time looking at incoming freshmen and jucos with Pollyanna eyes, thinking that we just recruiting "the class" that will turn things around. I just got tired of looking for them every year and never finding them.
Likewise, there's no way you can "replace" a proven all-conference caliber punter with, frankly, some dude who at this point is nothing more than a new name. Is there a chance he might show up and become our beloved mush mouthed Coach Joe? Yes, but there is also a chance we run the Belt and show up in New Orleans again: I'm just not betting on it. Likewise spending a scholarship on a punter is nice, but that's not getting better. Speed on special teams is nice, but that doesn't make you a great returner. Even if it did, you're still dependent upon the other 10 return team guys to open holes for you, which happened with stunning irregularity last year.
The only thing I'm comfortable accepting on credit alone is that the coaching staff will be improved, and that is based on specific examples from Coach Dodge on how he is tweaking his offense and Coach DeLoach's proven track record at North Texas.

I agree that you shouldn't put big expectations on players until they have proven it on the field. However, to look at every unproven player as a big bag of nothing is leaning too far to the negative. Every year different players step up and fill holes. Alot of that depends on the players surrounding the new guys.

I think that when you look at this team coming into the 2009 season, there are at least 3 bright spots to look forward to that definitely were not there last year. Our offensive line, our RBs, and our LBers. Those are relative strengths going into the season that we just didn't have going into last season. We KNOW what those guys can do, whereas last year about the only returning bright spot was our punter. This season, we also return more proven letterman on defense. I think that the relative strength of our oline and running backs should make things easier on our QB, and potentially the passing game as a whole. I don't think that it is unreasonable to expect that the QB position will be better simply b/c you can expect him to be better protected this season. That goes for whoever is playing the position.

H-towngreen · July 30, 2009

LOUD NOISES!!!

mad dog · July 30, 2009

I agree that you shouldn't put big expectations on players until they have proven it on the field. However, to look at every unproven player as a big bag of nothing is leaning too far to the negative. Every year different players step up and fill holes. Alot of that depends on the players surrounding the new guys.
I think that when you look at this team coming into the 2009 season, there are at least 3 bright spots to look forward to that definitely were not there last year. Our offensive line, our RBs, and our LBers. Those are relative strengths going into the season that we just didn't have going into last season. We KNOW what those guys can do, whereas last year about the only returning bright spot was our punter. This season, we also return more proven letterman on defense. I think that the relative strength of our oline and running backs should make things easier on our QB, and potentially the passing game as a whole. I don't think that it is unreasonable to expect that the QB position will be better simply b/c you can expect him to be better protected this season. That goes for whoever is playing the position.

I see what you are saying, and acknowledge that not every player is going to have a bag going into their first year. Where I'm coming from is that you can probably safely bank on one or two players coming through as playmakers, but expecting every trouble spot to be fixed by unproven players is, in my opinion, somewhat naive. When most of what I see from people is that "hey we signed this guy at punter, and these guys at WR, and these guys on the DL," I just say tap the brakes a little, because you're still going to have a ton of holes. Does that make any sense?

July 30, 2009

Wow, I didn't mean to start World War III.

I had gathered some rebuttal statistics on last year's passing attack but before I began forming a reply I read KRAM's post about personal attacks on players, coaches, and GMG members. I agree with the spirit of what he said so I let it drop.

Understand that my criticism of a player's statistics is only a critique of his performance and in no way is meant to cast aspersions on that player's ability or character. Coaches are a little more fair game since they are paid to perform a job. Ditto for staff and administrators.

Still, disagreements should be kept civil. This board is read by young and old alike. Therefore, I do not think that references to race, gender, religion, political, character or sexual implications should be made on this board. There is a Non-UNT Sports Board (which I hope would be for members only) for those discussions.

TIgreen01 · July 30, 2009

I see what you are saying, and acknowledge that not every player is going to have a bag going into their first year. Where I'm coming from is that you can probably safely bank on one or two players coming through as playmakers, but expecting every trouble spot to be fixed by unproven players is, in my opinion, somewhat naive. When most of what I see from people is that "hey we signed this guy at punter, and these guys at WR, and these guys on the DL," I just say tap the brakes a little, because you're still going to have a ton of holes. Does that make any sense?

Makes sense...and I agree.

MeanGreen61 · July 30, 2009

Folks frequently mention Riley being offered/committing to Texas as an 'Athlete'. Remember he also had offers from Rice, SMU, Tulsa and Missouri. A lotta folks were impressed with this young man. Wonder how many we looking at him as a future QB for their team ?

http://footballrecruiting.rivals.com/viewp...mp;pr_key=48938

Edited July 30, 2009 by MeanGreen61

The Fake Lonnie Finch · July 30, 2009

I see what you are saying, and acknowledge that not every player is going to have a bag going into their first year. Where I'm coming from is that you can probably safely bank on one or two players coming through as playmakers, but expecting every trouble spot to be fixed by unproven players is, in my opinion, somewhat naive. When most of what I see from people is that "hey we signed this guy at punter, and these guys at WR, and these guys on the DL," I just say tap the brakes a little, because you're still going to have a ton of holes. Does that make any sense?

I agree to a point. Where many go over the line with their expectations of Riley, I go overboard in my expectations of Mike Nelson. Therefore, I expect that he will have our front line, even the new guys, breathing fire. He always did a Iowa State, whether the players were new or veteran, he had the ready from the gun. Remember, he had a DL at Iowa State who had over 100 tackles as a true freshman. I think Nelson will be more than able to get his JUCOs set from the start. The newcomers on the offensive side of the ball...well, they won't be benefitting from the same type of coaching the new defensive players will be getting.

As for the special teams, too much emphasis is being placed on the punter. Everyone else returns. Our place kicker has a strong leg. We've got excellent deep snappers. Even though our return game was dicey last year, they are another year more experienced. And, they are all coming back to Shelton Gandy, not Robert Drake.

Hear me now, believe me later - the special teams and defense are going to be much better with the new coaches.

Let me back up and say one more thing about Robert Drake. I've banged on that guy alot. Maybe too much. But, the deal is, you rarely see special teams guys also coaching the defensive line. Maybe you can pull it off in high school. But, I'd don't think I'd ever seen it in college before Dodge came to UNT. Usually, you have a guy who is special teams/tight ends coach. But...well...you know the story there.

The main thing is, the special teams coaches normally don't have as many "regular" players to coach as Drake did in addition to their special teams duties. In fact, many schools these day have two defensive line coaches - one for the ends, and one for the interior linemen. So...maybe it wasn't Drake's fault so much as it was the guy who put him in charge of, basically, three different units. Again, you may be able to have a guy take on three unit at the high school level. But, well...you know what I'm saying.

Either way, don't underestimate Nelson and Gandy. Those two guys will have their guys getting it done from Game One.

Edited July 30, 2009 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

mad dog · July 30, 2009

I agree to a point. Where many go over the line with their expectations of Riley, I go overboard in my expectations of Mike Nelson. Therefore, I expect that he will have our front line, even the new guys, breathing fire. He always did a Iowa State, whether the players were new or veteran, he had the ready from the gun. Remember, he had a DL at Iowa State who had over 100 tackles as a true freshman. I think Nelson will be more than able to get his JUCOs set from the start. The newcomers on the offensive side of the ball...well, they won't be benefitting from the same type of coaching the new defensive players will be getting.
As for the special teams, too much emphasis is being placed on the punter. Everyone else returns. Our place kicker has a strong leg. We've got excellent deep snappers. Even though our return game was dicey last year, they are another year more experienced. And, they are all coming back to Shelton Gandy, not Robert Drake.
Hear me now, believe me later - the special teams and defense are going to be much better with the new coaches.
Let me back up and say one more thing about Robert Drake. I've banged on that guy alot. Maybe too much. But, the deal is, you rarely see special teams guys also coaching the defensive line. Maybe you can pull it off in high school. But, I'd don't think I'd ever seen it in college before Dodge came to UNT. Usually, you have a guy who is special teams/tight ends coach. But...well...you know the story there.
The main thing is, the special teams coaches normally don't have as many "regular" players to coach as Drake did in addition to their special teams duties. In fact, many schools these day have two defensive line coaches - one for the ends, and one for the interior linemen. So...maybe it wasn't Drake's fault so much as it was the guy who put him in charge of, basically, three different units. Again, you may be able to have a guy take on three unit at the high school level. But, well...you know what I'm saying.
Either way, don't underestimate Nelson and Gandy. Those two guys will have their guys getting it done from Game One.

You make a great case for Nelson, and I hope you are right. I disagree with you on special teams, though.

I have no faith in the kicking unit, which ranked dead last in the NCAA (78.6%) in PATs, and a full six percentage points behind the next closest team (Western Kentucky at 84%). I have significant concerns with both punt and kickoff coverage units, which ranked 110th and 120th, respectively. Punt (112) and kickoff (115) returns weren't much better. The reason I place so much emphasis on the punter was because it was far and away the brightest spot on the squad (ranked 30th nationally). Losing the one money guy on your special teams, from a simple statistics standpoint, is going to dramatically decrease the performance of the squad when viewed as a whole.

The only way for me to justify ranking them any higher is to take some unknown aspect (new recruits, player development, strength of coaching) on credit, which I am unprepared to do. I keep expecting this tweak or that tweak to make the kind of impact you're talking about, and I've been disappointed year after year. I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm just saying I'm all out of faith, and I'll need to see it to believe it. (I admit I'm a little jaded at this point).

Mean Green 93-98 · July 30, 2009

You make a great case for Nelson, and I hope you are right. I disagree with you on special teams, though.
I have no faith in the kicking unit, which ranked dead last in the NCAA (78.6%) in PATs, and a full six percentage points behind the next closest team (Western Kentucky at 84%). I have significant concerns with both punt and kickoff coverage units, which ranked 110th and 120th, respectively. Punt (112) and kickoff (115) returns weren't much better. The reason I place so much emphasis on the punter was because it was far and away the brightest spot on the squad (ranked 30th nationally). Losing the one money guy on your special teams, from a simple statistics standpoint, is going to dramatically decrease the performance of the squad when viewed as a whole.
The only way for me to justify ranking them any higher is to take some unknown aspect (new recruits, player development, strength of coaching) on credit, which I am unprepared to do. I keep expecting this tweak or that tweak to make the kind of impact you're talking about, and I've been disappointed year after year. I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm just saying I'm all out of faith, and I'll need to see it to believe it. (I admit I'm a little jaded at this point).

Maybe the new punter will be less likely to overkick his coverage?