Asu Designated As Nt Rival..........

Evan · July 25, 2009

with the addition of USA....

VideoEagle · July 25, 2009

with the addition of USA....
DRC Mean Green Blog

While ASU every year might not have been my first choice, I can see why it is the logical one. I was going to dig out my media guide, but I can only find the basketball ones! They are in driving distance. I don’t think one of us really has a dominate overall football record over the other. Both of us have long football histories - yes, I know some of the extremely young readers don’t remember the 70s or before but this is true. ASU was the only school to even come close to avoiding the push down to 1AA. The way the rule was implemented, no school who was designated for 1AA had a reasonable chance of appeal. (Yes, I’ve see the inaccurate stories that if NT had filed some mystery paper they could have avoided 1AA, but that simply is not true.) The Independence Bowl was created specifically because of ASU being snubbed in the 70s by other bowls. I think after a few years, a real rivalry could evolve.

I’m anxious to read Arkstate fan’s take on this!

GrandGreen · July 25, 2009

The annual game with ASU can be called the Grenade Bowl and have an appropriate trophy.

NT80 · July 25, 2009

This is more of a "rivalry by elimination". All other SBC schools had a close rival, except ASU and UNT. A "designated" rival 400 miles away is not really a rival. <_<

NT91 · July 25, 2009

We could play the game in Shreveport each year..haha

DallasGreen · July 25, 2009

We could play the game in Shreveport each year..haha

Not a bad idea, Fry did it with LA Tech during LA State Fair

FirefightnRick · July 25, 2009

Learn our history DRC. Our best rival would naturally be ULM because of the many memorable/forgetable games between the two.

Many of us here made both bus trips to Monroe for the conference championship game and 1st round playoff at the end of the season in '87. The first was a loss by us on a missed extra point for conference, only to watch them beat us fairly easily two weeks later enroute to the national championship for ULM. Two years later at Malone they allowed someone in through locked doors of our locker room to clean out our players valuables. And another year they beat us in Denton on a last second made field goal that kept us out of the playoffs. Another year they caused the premature firing of Darrell Dickey, forcing us to start the year off 0-5 which sparked 4 straight conference championships for us, the last of which occured on the shoulders of a by-the-skin-of-our-teeth win at Malone stadium.

Couple the history between the two schools and the fact that there's gambling on the way there and back makes ULM the perfect school for our yearly rival game.

Rick

Edited July 25, 2009 by FirefightnRick

Mean Green 93-98 · July 25, 2009

Learn our history DRC. Our best rival would naturally be ULM because of the many memorable/forgetable games between the two.
Many of us here made both bus trips to Monroe for the conference championship game and 1st round playoff at the end of the season in '87. The first was a loss by us on a missed extra point for conference, only to watch them beat us fairly easily two weeks later enroute to the national championship for ULM. Two years later at Malone they allowed someone in through locked doors of our locker room to clean out our players valuables. And another year they beat us in Denton on a last second made field goal that kept us out of the playoffs. Another year they caused the premature firing of Darrell Dickey, forcing us to start the year off 0-5 which sparked 4 straight conference championships for us, the last of which occured on the shoulders of a by-the-skin-of-our-teeth win at Malone stadium.
Couple the history between the two schools and the fact that there's gambling on the way there and back makes ULM the perfect school for our yearly rival game.
Rick

It would make perfect sense for us, but not for ULM. ULL is the obvious SBC "rival" team for them. By default, we have ASU. But we have had some awfully close games with them the past couple years.

LoveMG · July 26, 2009

if they are not in texas they cannot be our rival.

Mean Green 93-98 · July 26, 2009

if they are not in texas they cannot be our rival.

Read the article.

LoveMG · July 26, 2009

Read the article.

read my lips. the article says nothing about another team from texas joining the league nor unt joining another league with texas teams.

VideoEagle · July 26, 2009

if they are not in texas they cannot be our rival.

If another team is from another state they can’t be rivals? I guess all those years of the old SWC between Texas and Arkansas were not rivalries. Besides, they are even farther apart than NT and ASU. And Washington and Arizona State can’t have a rivalry since they are a lot further apart. Miami and Boston College shouldn’t even play games as they are too far apart.

NT80 · July 26, 2009

I too think we would become more "natural" rivals with UTEP (even though further than ASU?), Texas State, or even UTSA just because of being within the same state. The "joined by conference" rivalry theory sometimes just doesn't hold water.

NT03 · July 26, 2009

ULM & ULL have played each other 44 times ( 23-21 )

We have played ULM 25 times

Denton to ULM is 322 mi

ULM to ULL is 185 mi

We have to be one of the few teams in the country without a true rival. I hope someone like a UTSA or Texas State does become DI and we can start to establish some kind of in state rival.

Edited July 26, 2009 by NT03

NT91 · July 26, 2009

La.Tech would be a good one.

Arkstfan · July 27, 2009

Well if it is adopted (no guarantee it will be that's still some years down the road), it is solely to insure that over the course of 16 years ( like anything is stable that long any more) that no one loses their good gate receipt game. I suspect ASU brings as many to Denton as anyone else in the conference does. But there are some natural pairings that can't be broken (FIU/FAU, MT/WKU, Troy/USA, and ULL/ULM).

I don't think that is the best solution though. It doesn't address MT/Troy and doesn't address ASU vs. ULL and ULM which are among our oldest games.

Better solution

Group A

Troy/USA/WKU/MT/FIU

Group B

ASU/UNT/ULM/ULL/FAU

Each team is assigned a permanent opponent in the other group, with preference on geographically natural permanent opponents

FIU/FAU, USA/ULL, Troy/ULM, ASU/MT, UNT/WKU or you could flip it and have ASU/WKU and UNT/MT, (MT is only 30 miles close to ASU so either solution won't hurt us)

Then you skip one team from the other group other than the permanent opponent. Then you have an 8 year rotation.

July 27, 2009

Well if it is adopted (no guarantee it will be that's still some years down the road), it is solely to insure that over the course of 16 years ( like anything is stable that long any more) that no one loses their good gate receipt game. I suspect ASU brings as many to Denton as anyone else in the conference does. But there are some natural pairings that can't be broken (FIU/FAU, MT/WKU, Troy/USA, and ULL/ULM).
I don't think that is the best solution though. It doesn't address MT/Troy and doesn't address ASU vs. ULL and ULM which are among our oldest games.
Better solution
Group A
Troy/USA/WKU/MT/FIU
Group B
ASU/UNT/ULM/ULL/FAU
Each team is assigned a permanent opponent in the other group, with preference on geographically natural permanent opponents
FIU/FAU, USA/ULL, Troy/ULM, ASU/MT, UNT/WKU or you could flip it and have ASU/WKU and UNT/MT, (MT is only 30 miles close to ASU so either solution won't hurt us)
Then you skip one team from the other group other than the permanent opponent. Then you have an 8 year rotation.

I pass on that one. The planned alignment is not that bad but will take some getting used to.

I think that before too much time passes we need to go to a 12-team conference by either adding two teams, preferably in the west, or splitting with CUSA, forming two conferences based on geography.

NT80 · July 27, 2009

I think that before too much time passes we need to go to a 12-team conference by either adding two teams, preferably in the west, or splitting with CUSA, forming two conferences based on geography.

I'd vote for that! You would have a hard time convincing Tulane, USM, and Memphis where to go and with whom.

Arkstfan · July 27, 2009

I pass on that one. The planned alignment is not that bad but will take some getting used to.
I think that before too much time passes we need to go to a 12-team conference by either adding two teams, preferably in the west, or splitting with CUSA, forming two conferences based on geography.

Why would you pass on a schedule rotation that is better for UNT?

The plan floated by the league means that over the course of the schedule rotation for two years you miss your closest conference opponent and for two more years you miss your second closest conference opponent, but never miss your third closest conference opponent.

My alternative insures that UNT never misses playing the three closest conference opponents and never misses the 5th closest opponent (if MT is permanent opponent from the other group).

Going to 12 makes things neat and tidy but at this point we don't know if the NCAA will change the FBS membership criteria before the mortatorium expires, traditionally that is when they make changes. It would be very easy to tweak the rules so that a school looking to change divisions would find it all but impossible unless they had a league home lined up. That would preclude expanding to 12 unless you found two schools that the membership wanted enough to assist their move.

C-USA realignment will be a money issue, who can accurately project where they will be financially in two or three years?

Edited July 27, 2009 by Arkstfan

Shof · July 27, 2009

Well if it is adopted (no guarantee it will be that's still some years down the road), it is solely to insure that over the course of 16 years ( like anything is stable that long any more) that no one loses their good gate receipt game. I suspect ASU brings as many to Denton as anyone else in the conference does. But there are some natural pairings that can't be broken (FIU/FAU, MT/WKU, Troy/USA, and ULL/ULM).
I don't think that is the best solution though. It doesn't address MT/Troy and doesn't address ASU vs. ULL and ULM which are among our oldest games.
Better solution
Group A
Troy/USA/WKU/MT/FIU
Group B
ASU/UNT/ULM/ULL/FAU
Each team is assigned a permanent opponent in the other group, with preference on geographically natural permanent opponents
FIU/FAU, USA/ULL, Troy/ULM, ASU/MT, UNT/WKU or you could flip it and have ASU/WKU and UNT/MT, (MT is only 30 miles close to ASU so either solution won't hurt us)
Then you skip one team from the other group other than the permanent opponent. Then you have an 8 year rotation.

I like the Group/Pool type set-up. Would question splitting FAU/FIU; even if they were the "permanent" opponent. As a Cajun lifer, I recall playing ASU numerous times over the years in a few different conference affiliations and as independents. So to me, that is a more natural rivalry than even ULM. I think ASU is still the largest attended home conference game at Cajun Field (around 30,000 back in the 70's). Anyway, I'd think Troy or even USA would be a better fit in the western group than either Florida school.

Shof

Arkstfan · July 27, 2009

Shof, the Florida split does seem odd and if we were in divisions it would make no sense at all of course.

The reason I went that way is because if you look at the league you basically have three groupings.

The old Southland schools (Mean Green, Cajuns, Red Wolves, and War Hawks) although the Cajuns were only in the SLC with ASU.

The southeastern schools ('Toppers, Blue Raiders, Trojans, and Jags)

The twin Florida schools.

There isn't a great deal of history inter-group history but quite a bit intra-group.

Of the old SLC schools (Group B ) and the SE schools (Group A) there are only three road trips of less than 400 miles. ASU-MT, ASU-WKU, UL-USA.

If you keep the two Florida schools in the same grouping, you end up having to move either USA to the other group or one of WKU/MT.

If you split them and then assign an permanent opponent in the other grouping only one road trip of less than 400 miles is split up, either ASU-WKU or ASU-MT. Also if you group the two Florida schools together, none of the schools in that eastern grouping ever skip a trip to Florida, but the western group misses a Florida opponent in 4 out of 10 years unless we do a permanent opponent and then you miss one 4 of 8 years unless assigned a Florida as a permanent.

By splitting the Florida schools everyone gets one Florida permanently but their relationship is preserved.

The only other thing that makes sense is

Group A

FAU/FIU/Troy/MT/WKU

Group B

USA/ULL/ULM/ASU/UNT

And then assign permanent opponents of:

USA/Troy, ASU/(MT or WKU), and then leave it UNT/ULL/ULM to fight it out as to whether they get permanently assigned FIU/FAU/or the left out of WKU/MT.

With either system, ASU comes out worst having to give up one of its three closest league opponents along with whichever of WKU/MT skips ASU.

Edited July 27, 2009 by Arkstfan

UNTLifer · July 27, 2009

if they are not in texas they cannot be our rival.

I couldn't agree more:

Texas/OU

Texas/Arkansas

Ohio State/Michigan

Georgia/Florida

Arkansas/Ol' Miss

None of things games are rival worthy.

FirefightnRick · July 27, 2009

ULM & ULL have played each other 44 times ( 23-21 )
We have played ULM 25 times
Denton to ULM is 322 mi
ULM to ULL is 185 mi
We have to be one of the few teams in the country without a true rival. I hope someone like a UTSA or Texas State does become DI and we can start to establish some kind of in state rival.

And we've played ASU 17 times, of which I remember 3 being in the memorable category. Of course these games are only memorable and could only constitute a rivalry for those who were there to see them, so I understand why ASU might be the better choice since two of the more memorable 3 games were of late. Hell, who needs history and tradition these days?

Rick

Chrisattsu · July 28, 2009

I too think we would become more "natural" rivals with UTEP (even though further than ASU?), Texas State, or even UTSA just because of being within the same state. The "joined by conference" rivalry theory sometimes just doesn't hold water.

I am ready whenever you are.