Senate Health Committee Clears Insurance Overhaul

[UNTflyer]

There is nothing wrong with health care in America.

Those who insist there is something wrong are usually those who think they are entitled to health services for "free".

Health care is no different from auto insurance, utility bills, and food costs. We all need it, we all need to pay for it, and in no way do I want the government providing it.

[UNTflyer]

Surely you don't believe the statement that every American has the opportunity to have affordable health care. To believe that would be ridiculous. My Pop is a contractor for a telecom company. He doesn't make much and certainly can't afford to pay the high rates of insurance that he needs for him, my mom, and brother.

Priorities. Does he own a vehicle? Does he have cable television? Does he have any type of luxury whatsoever? If so then he can "afford" it, he just chooses other things as a priority.

I've posted it many times, you can get HMO health insurance for a family of four for less than $150 a month with Blue Cross.

[EagleGreen]

Priorities. Does he own a vehicle? Does he have cable television? Does he have any type of luxury whatsoever? If so then he can "afford" it, he just chooses other things as a priority.

I've posted it many times, you can get HMO health insurance for a family of four for less than $150 a month with Blue Cross.

LOL. Well, it seems you have it solved. America just needs to get there priorities straight. Did you really type "Does he have a vehicle?" BTW, not every family of four quailifies for $150/month insurance.

[EagleGreen]

There is nothing wrong with health care in America.

Those who insist there is something wrong are usually those who think they are entitled to health services for "free".

Health care is no different from auto insurance, utility bills, and food costs. We all need it, we all need to pay for it, and in no way do I want the government providing it.

Where do you get this stuff? I think there is something wrong with health care and I have great insurance (certainly not thinking that I'm entitled to health services for "free"). You said it yourself, we all need it, but we all don't have it and many can't afford it (regardless of your priorities/$150 HMO thing). Some people just cannot afford it. Someone needs to make it affordable for those who need it and I don't think it is going to be the insurance company or you. So the gov. is having to step in to do the most good for the most people. Some folks will have to sacrifice things for this plan and some folks will not benefit (those folks - including me - are free to bitch) but I think (and who really cares what I think) it will be for the good of the people if the gov. gets it right (doubtfull though).

[UNT90]

Have you ever been independently/self-employed? The difference between what I get as a Met associate vs. what will be afforded me as a musician is ridiculous.

Then choose to be a Met associate. It's not what you get, it's what you earn.

Everyone gets affordable health care in this country. The less fortunate have to wait in the emergency room of the county hospital for it, and usually get a lower standard of care, but that is life in a free market society. I'm sure a lot of people on here have a nicer house than I, as I'm sure I probably have a nicer house than some on here. Nothing is guaranteed in this society, not employment, not education, not a nice house, not a pretty wife/girlfriend. If you want something, go out and freaking earn it.

If you want someone to pay for your health care, don't be a full time musician. It's called a life choice. There is a reason your employer calls it a "benefit".

[EagleGreen]

Then choose to be a Met associate. It's not what you get, it's what you earn.

Everyone gets affordable health care in this country. The less fortunate have to wait in the emergency room of the county hospital for it, and usually get a lower standard of care, but that is life in a free market society. I'm sure a lot of people on here have a nicer house than I, as I'm sure I probably have a nicer house than some on here. Nothing is guaranteed in this society, not employment, not education, not a nice house, not a pretty wife/girlfriend. If you want something, go out and freaking earn it.

If you want someone to pay for your health care, don't be a full time musician. It's called a life choice. There is a reason your employer calls it a "benefit".

You hit the nail on the head..."There is a reason your employer calls it a "benefit"." What if you don't have an employer but you "choose" to have one...you just can't get a job? How does that apply to your reasoning. Many folks in their 50s and 60s have been laid off; no life choice. Not too many people are hiring older people these days (spare me the WalMart greeter comments) because if they are going to spare some "benefits" then they are going to spare them to someone who will not be needing them as much. These folks (lots of folks) need help. Sure, they can wait in the emergency room (they are doing it now) but then many of them CAN'T AFFORD to pay for the bill, so healthcare costs go up for everyone. That's the point of the health care reform, to try and lower health care costs for most by making it available to all.

[FirefightnRick]

You hit the nail on the head..."There is a reason your employer calls it a "benefit"." What if you don't have an employer but you "choose" to have one...you just can't get a job? How does that apply to your reasoning. Many folks in their 50s and 60s have been laid off; no life choice. Not too many people are hiring older people these days (spare me the WalMart greeter comments) because if they are going to spare some "benefits" then they are going to spare them to someone who will not be needing them as much. These folks (lots of folks) need help. Sure, they can wait in the emergency room (they are doing it now) but then many of them CAN'T AFFORD to pay for the bill, so healthcare costs go up for everyone. That's the point of the health care reform, to try and lower health care costs for most by making it available to all.

That's not the way it will go down however. Just like what happned to the Hawaii State children's health care program. Everyone who could afford healthcare for their child decided to take them off of their own policy and put them on the governments. If I did that for both of my kids it would be a savings to me and my family of about $175 per month. So everyone did that. 11 months later the system was overrun and went broke. Hawaii canceled it a month later.

I define affordable health care as what I can pay for what I need. I cover 4 of us in my family, plus dental for less than $435 per month. I've seen cheaper rates advertised. And Flyer has posted several links to options anyone can look up for individuals as well.

I have a question for you, did you graduate from North Texas?

Rick

Edited July 17, 2009 by FirefightnRick

[UNT90]

You hit the nail on the head..."There is a reason your employer calls it a "benefit"." What if you don't have an employer but you "choose" to have one...you just can't get a job? How does that apply to your reasoning. Many folks in their 50s and 60s have been laid off; no life choice. Not too many people are hiring older people these days (spare me the WalMart greeter comments) because if they are going to spare some "benefits" then they are going to spare them to someone who will not be needing them as much. These folks (lots of folks) need help. Sure, they can wait in the emergency room (they are doing it now) but then many of them CAN'T AFFORD to pay for the bill, so healthcare costs go up for everyone. That's the point of the health care reform, to try and lower health care costs for most by making it available to all.

My sister-in-law has been laid off for over a year, she is 51, yet hasn't asked once for a free ride on her health care, or anything else. She prepared herself for this eventuality.

Lots of folks do not need help. Some folks need help. Actually, about 5.5% of the population.

The point of health care reform is not to lower the cost of health care. If that was the point, socialized medicine would not be forced down the throat of the American people. The reform wouldn't be given a two week time limit by Pres. Obama to be completed, and cost of the reform (see, not savings, but COST) would not be hidden from the American people.

The point of the health care reform, or socialized medicine policy, is a power grab by the government to make you dependent on the government for health care services. One more step down the socialist road.

Edited July 17, 2009 by UNT90

[keith]

Where do you get this stuff? I think there is something wrong with health care and I have great insurance (certainly not thinking that I'm entitled to health services for "free"). You said it yourself, we all need it, but we all don't have it and many can't afford it (regardless of your priorities/$150 HMO thing). Some people just cannot afford it. Someone needs to make it affordable for those who need it and I don't think it is going to be the insurance company or you. So the gov. is having to step in to do the most good for the most people. Some folks will have to sacrifice things for this plan and some folks will not benefit (those folks - including me - are free to bitch) but I think (and who really cares what I think) it will be for the good of the people if the gov. gets it right (doubtfull though).

I see. So what you are saying is, from each according to his abilities to each according to his needs. That's nice.

Keith

[keith]

You hit the nail on the head..."There is a reason your employer calls it a "benefit"." What if you don't have an employer but you "choose" to have one...you just can't get a job? How does that apply to your reasoning. Many folks in their 50s and 60s have been laid off; no life choice. Not too many people are hiring older people these days (spare me the WalMart greeter comments) because if they are going to spare some "benefits" then they are going to spare them to someone who will not be needing them as much. These folks (lots of folks) need help. Sure, they can wait in the emergency room (they are doing it now) but then many of them CAN'T AFFORD to pay for the bill, so healthcare costs go up for everyone. That's the point of the health care reform, to try and lower health care costs for most by making it available to all.

Here's a life lesson for the younger generation. In times of prosperity you need to put some aside for the rainy day (it will come). It's a pretty basic and fundamental concept that has worked well for most of human history and is even found in nature. If you are not saving to take care of yourself in your later years, start now.

Keith

[Shuke-D]

I have a question for you, did you graduate from North Texas?

Rick

Was that question for EagleGreen, whom you quoted in your response, or me who asked the original question about affordability?

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

Show me one person who doesn't have the "opportunity" to have affordable health care in this country?

Rick

WOW... --You must live in Highland Park... You (and I) work for an government organization.... Firefighter (education for me) so health care insurance is not a huge problem for us....BUT there are a lot of people who work at minimum wages who have no spare money especially if they have several kids. Many people are self employed or work in a small business and have big problems getting health coverage especially if they already have health problems. Surely in your job you see these people... if not... look around more.

--Now having said all of that... I still am not sure the insurance or health care plan is what we need. I know one thing health care is extremely expensive compared to what it once was..... and I mean compared to what the average person earnings is/was.

Edited July 17, 2009 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[FirefightnRick]

Was that question for EagleGreen, whom you quoted in your response, or me who asked the original question about affordability?

Sorry, it was for Eagle Green.

Rick

[hickoryhouse]

With the average life span of the individual getting longer and longer, health care is going to continue to become more expensive. There needs to be something done to try and help stem the tide of these rising cost. The best option is not Government takeover of the industry.

That is all I have ... I don't know how to fix it ... but I do know how to play the drums....

[keith]

I am now convinced that Obama is the greatest bold-faced liar in the known and unknown universe. I used to think it was Nancy Peolsi, but now I'm sure that she's just stupid.

Keith

Edited July 17, 2009 by keith

[FirefightnRick]

I know one thing health care is extremely expensive compared to what it once was..... and I mean compared to what the average person earnings is/was.

As is EVERYTHING else. I went to buy a slide rule the other day and.........

Rick

Edited July 17, 2009 by FirefightnRick

[EagleGreen]

Sorry, it was for Eagle Green.

Rick

Ahh...I missed it. I stopped reading after I realized that the only point of healthcare reform is to force socialism upon the Amercian people and allow President Obama to become a dictator. I'm an UNT alumnus.

[KRAM1]

As is EVERYTHING else. I went to buy a slide rule the other day and.........

Rick

Priceless!

[EagleGreen]

Well, if you don't feel like answering Harry's thoughtfully articulated question and instead want to put someone else's words in quotes, how about defining what you understand the word "affordable" to mean. Therein might lie the subjective crux of the dispute here.

It seems this question is thought to be absurd if you think health care reform is absurd; therefore, it would be a null response (as noted). To some, health care is affordable. (note that period). They see this is a "I worked hard to get what I have and you should have too if you want the same things". They do not see problems with opportunity and affordability. It happens.

[keith]

Rick I think you've made it abundantly clear that you are against health care reform. My question to you is do you think healthcare needs to be fixed and if so what solutions would you support to fix it? We now know that 1 in 4 Texans do not have health insurance and health care costs nationally have more than doubled in just 10 years. Is your proposal to leave things as they are? Just interested in your thoughts on possible solutions.

The answer you your question begins with a simple one word question to your statement I have put in bold above: Why?

Unless we fully and completely understand that, then we are pissing in the wind.

BTW, I think the only other cost tracking along those same lines is Education.

Keith

[greenminer]

Then choose to be a Met associate. It's not what you get, it's what you earn.

WTF?

[Side Show Joe]

As a younger man I didn't buy health insurance because I had no need for it. I was and still am healthy. Now that I am older and have a family to care for, I have health insurance for my entire family, and it is not cheap. I don't like paying so much for our health insurance either. But as a man, it is my responsibility to care for my family and place their health care as a priority.

Buying health insurance isn't cheap. So, I think it becomes a matter of where a person places health insurance on their list of priorities.

If someone is driving a new car, and doesn't have insurance, then I don't have much sympathy for them. They need to go get themselves a used car and save some money. If someones eating out at the Olive Garden, Texas Roadhouse, Red Lobster, or any other restaurant all week long, and doesn't have insurance, then I won't have much sympathy for them either. Stay home and make a sandwich.

My point is, most people don't manage their money or even their life very well. If someone can't afford health insurance, many times it's because they choose to place their spending priorities on other things in life. Some have made too many bad choices early in their lives, (not taking an interest in their education, gangs, teenage pregnancies, ect...). These people made their choices and I don't have much sympathy for them. Then there are those who never really had a chance in this world. they were born without the ability to truly care for themselves or other. Those we should and do provide health care for. And I'm all for trying to provide better health care for these people, even if it would increase my personal cost for health insurance.

I do think the cost of health insurance is too high, and yes, I think we need to work on a plan to lower the cost, but this government plan is completely unfair to the average American. Ultimately, I don't feel it is the responsibility of me or anyone else to provide health care for people who don't place health care as a priority for themselves, or people who have spent their lives not taking responsibility for their choices. To do so would unfairly place increased health care costs on me and every other hard working American.

I hope the people of America wake up, speak out, and stop obama, before he and the liberals completely ruins this country.

[keith]

(Harry @ Jul 16 2009, 03:00 PM)

Rick I think you've made it abundantly clear that you are against health care reform. My question to you is do you think healthcare needs to be fixed and if so what solutions would you support to fix it? We now know that 1 in 4 Texans do not have health insurance and health care costs nationally have more than doubled in just 10 years. Is your proposal to leave things as they are? Just interested in your thoughts on possible solutions.

The answer you your question begins with a simple one word question to your statement I have put in bold above: Why?

Unless we fully and completely understand that, then we are pissing in the wind.

BTW, I think the only other cost tracking along those same lines is Education.

Keith

This is kind of weird. I don't think I've ever replied to my own post before, but Harry your statement got me thinking. What exactly do you mean when you say "health care costs nationally have more than doubled in just 10 years" because this can go in a lot of different directions. Do you mean total, aggregate expenditures for health care have doubled in 10 years? Maybe people are going to the doctor's office more than they should (after all it's only a $15-$20 co-pay). Do you mean that on a same service basis costs have doubled? I could get an asprin for $0.05 10 years ago, but now it is $0.10. Have some stayed flat (or gone down!) and others quadrupled? There is a lot of energy in your statement and is often used as one of the reasons why "we must act now." I think it deserves more analysis than my initial simple question of why.

Here's a couple examples. When my wife was pregnant I think we got one....maybe two...sonograms. Some of you may remember those grainy black and white images and you got a little printout on some sort of fax paper or something that curled up and faded. Does your statement imply that the cost now for that exact same procedure has doubled. Or is it that sonograms today that provide detailed 3-D imaging and you get to take home an mpeg4 video of the event has doubled from the former procedure? Are people getting more than one or two (unnecessary) sonograms now? In this case the cost may have gone up, but so did the quality of the service. I'm not sure how the human race survived before sonograms.

Another example is Lasik eye surgery. Very expensive 10 years ago. Today, not so. Why is Lasik (or other forms of corrective eye surgery) that are incredible advances, now so much less expensive than they were.

Keith

[oldguystudent]

not a pretty wife/girlfriend.

What? That's it! I'm out!

[hickoryhouse]

What? That's it! I'm out!

Don't forget.... Beauty is in the eye of the beholder