Your 2nd Place Rangers

UNT90 · September 22, 2009

Attendance may finish around what it was last year, but it's telling that it never improved at any rate close to the team.
If there were no other baseball fans in the town I also wouldn't complain, but many folks, especially in the 18-31 demographic, decided that did like baseball - just winning baseball. That is why you see 400 Red Sox hats at most football games nowadays. They want baseball - but only baseball that will win a title. They didn't just say screw it, they used a third cousin or loose Boston tie to replace the contending void the Rangers gave them. Just like thousands of North Texas grads adopted the college team du jour during their time in Denton because the team sucked. I know it happens and I get why it happens, but you know where it doesn't happen: a good sports town.
I know I am kicking several of you in your Cowboy-loving crotches and I'm fully prepared for the responses, but let me repeat it one more time: This. Is. A. Bad. Sports. Town.

The highlighted fans are not baseball fans, they are pop culture fans. They may know the game, but they are fans of the Red Sox because that's the cool team of which to be a fan. They couldn't tell you who was on the bench and dang sure couldn't name one minor league prospect for the Sox. This is the same phemonmena with all the UT crap you see people wearing. Just simply pop culture.

People always want a winner. The struggles of the Rangers to win, and I mean win anything (like one playoff game), have been monumental. Hopefully next year changes that, the Rangers win, and you see new Rangers fans created.

Houston has been to a World Series in the last 5 years and had a pretty good run of success in early 00's, making a comparison between the two teams kind of pointless.

I don't think this is a bad sports town, just a normal one.

Quoner · September 22, 2009

The highlighted fans are not baseball fans, they are pop culture fans. They may know the game, but they are fans of the Red Sox because that's the cool team of which to be a fan. They couldn't tell you who was on the bench and dang sure couldn't name one minor league prospect for the Sox. This is the same phemonmena with all the UT crap you see people wearing. Just simply pop culture.
People always want a winner. The struggles of the Rangers to win, and I mean win anything (like one playoff game), have been monumental. Hopefully next year changes that, the Rangers win, and you see new Rangers fans created.
Houston has been to a World Series in the last 5 years and had a pretty good run of success in early 00's, making a comparison between the two teams kind of pointless.
I don't think this is a bad sports town, just a normal one.

The Rangers have won a playoff game more recently than the Cowboys. The product Jerry has been putting on the field since 1996 is far more inexcusable than anything Hicks has done, but no one demands he be held accountable. And those Red Sox fans do know the roster. they see them on ESPN all the time. They call the team we. They buy the Stephen King books. they (shudder) see that Jimmy Fallon movie. They invest into this way more than you would expect because they want to feel like part of a winner.

Maybe I'm wrong and a Houston person can correct me, but even when the Astros are way out of it, they draw at least 25K. People backed them when they weren't winning and went nuts when they won. This town wouldn't do that unless the Rangers were up 10 with 2 outs to go in the ALCS.

If Cowboys fans didn't go out of there way to put down other sports and tell you what a great football town this is, that'd be different. But they're not good friends. They don't make noise. They're not an intimidating crowd. They revel in the sideshows and excess that the owner creates to blind everyone to the fact that the product sucks. If Parcells hadn't injected limited life into the thing for a few years, we'd probably have the same record as the Texans since 2001.

UNT90 · September 22, 2009

So you want the same illogical behavior toward the Rangers that the Cowboys get from their fans? Again, there is no pressure on Jerry to win because he has the die hard fans that will come no matter what. Where did those fans come from? 1993, 1994, and 1996, with many left over from 1979 and 1972 (??). Winning it all makes fans for life. The Rangers have never won even a playoff series. Ain't saying it's right, it just is.

CMJ · September 22, 2009

I think that Dallas is about on par with Los Angeles as sports towns go. In some ways bette & worse in others. LA doesn't have a pro football team(unless you count USC ) so the makeup is very different. And it's hard to tell how many Lakers fans there are that wouldn't be around if they were bad more often(they even have big followings in their down years because they're so few and far between). The colleges are followed pretty well, but both are historically winners in a variety of sports(UCLA having more NCAA titles than any other school and USC being not far behind). The Dodgers have pretty rabid support even when they suck. Even the Clippers and Kings usually draw decent - and both are lousy

On the other hand LA is HISTORIC for the "coming late" AND "leaving early" types. And I don't know how great a towns fanbase could be if people leave a World Series game early(that famous walk off "I can't believe what I just saw" homer - yeah you can see cars leaving the parking lot in the background behind the bleachers). Also, the fact that so many folks(like me) are transplants, leaves a lot of weird allegiances out here.

Quoner · September 22, 2009

I think that Dallas is about on par with Los Angeles as sports towns go. In some ways bette & worse in others. LA doesn't have a pro football team(unless you count USC ) so the makeup is very different. And it's hard to tell how many Lakers fans there are that wouldn't be around if they were bad more often(they even have big followings in their down years because they're so few and far between). The colleges are followed pretty well, but both are historically winners in a variety of sports(UCLA having more NCAA titles than any other school and USC being not far behind). The Dodgers have pretty rabid support even when they suck. Even the Clippers and Kings usually draw decent - and both are lousy
On the other hand LA is HISTORIC for the "coming late" AND "leaving early" types. And I don't know how great a towns fanbase could be if people leave a World Series game early(that famous walk off "I can't believe what I just saw" homer - yeah you can see cars leaving the parking lot in the background behind the bleachers). Also, the fact that so many folks(like me) are transplants, leaves a lot of weird allegiances out here.

Completely agree on the LA comparison. And you know what, they are who most folks point to as the laziest, worst fans in America. Another common stereotype exists between those fan bases, but I can't put my finger on it. Roy Williams may be involved somehow.

UNT90, thanks for engaging this debate. There's no malice and I'm really enjoying it. I don't expect the Rangers to ever sell 104,000 tickets for a game, but I don't think 30K averages in a pennant race is too much to ask for.

CMJ · September 22, 2009

I actually think LA gets a bad rap as far as fans go. I think it's pretty average out here.

Atlanta or Miami have to be the worst I'd think.

CaribbeanGreen · September 23, 2009

Miami

ding ding ding.

Lived there several years, up until 2006. Freaking dismal. Firstly, it's a Dolphins/winners town... and even the Dolphins fans show up as empty seats when the team is out of it/coached by Nick Saban.

I was there during the Heat's big Wade/Shaq run (yeah, I know...), and sure, everyone was just a huge Heat fan for a couple of months... but the year before Shaq arrived, with Pat Riley on the bench and Dwayne Wade leading the team to the 2nd round of the playoffs, you could walk up game day and more or less pick your seat... this in a new(ish) arena on the water next to a huge mall/shopping complex. There was literally about a two month period of "Wade County", and then crickets...

...as for the Marlins... need I even go into it? Maybe the undisputed best-run (personnel, not financial) franchise in sports - two WS titles, SOMEHOW constantly in contention with a payroll the size of UNT's athletics budget, and I would sit there at games in Dolphins stadium in a chair with a Dolphins logo on it drinking a beer from a cup with a Dolphins logo/schedule on the side. Did I mention you can use the seventh inning stretch to hit the Dolphins Pro Shop, now featuring a Marlins cap on sale! The thing is dead, cavernous, and empty... talk about a franchise that deserves better. That's where DFW comes out looking good... if the Rangers had HALF the success the Marlins have had, I have confidence that even Zombie Merle Harmon would have trouble getting good seats.

Always blamed the Miami thing on the fact that when you live there, you'll meet almost no one actually FROM Miami... it's transplant/retiree city. Then again, so is Phoenix, and I'm unaware if the D'Backs have had the same problem (with good, though lesser success than the Fish).

Edited September 23, 2009 by CaribbeanGreen

UNT_playmaker · September 23, 2009

Quoner

I completely agree with ya about Jerry Jones mismanagent of the Cowboys. It is terrible and it will see a breaking point this season with major changes....

Monkeypox · September 24, 2009

Having lived in both LA and DFW, I can safely say there's NO comparison between sports fans in the two places. Dallas is FARRR better. Then again, one of the problems LA has is that they have a massive number of transplants. People who move to LA don't really identify (and in many cases don't like) LA teams, so they aren't going to go and root for them.

CMJ · September 24, 2009

Having lived in both LA and DFW, I can safely say there's NO comparison between sports fans in the two places. Dallas is FARRR better. Then again, one of the problems LA has is that they have a massive number of transplants. People who move to LA don't really identify (and in many cases don't like) LA teams, so they aren't going to go and root for them.

I don't know, if anything I'd give LA fans the nod over Dallas. And I lived in the Dallas area 23 years.

There are a ton of transplants who never identify with teams out here. Many do though. I can't tell you how many folks I know who have become fans of the Lakers for instance. There's more to do out here, with the beaches etc, so that can cut down on attendance and what not. And yet, I find way more rabid Dodger fans that I ever found Rangers fans. People love their baseball and basketball out here in ways that I never ever saw back in Texas. Maybe I didn't live in the right town back home -- and out here I live in Hollywood(which is near the epicenter of Los Angeles).

I just know that on the same Saturday you can have the Colesium totally filled, the Rose Bowl mostly filled, Staples Center filled to the brim for hockey fans, & a sold out Dodger Stadium for playoff baseball. I know - I saw it happen acouple of years ago. Would that happen in Dallas?

Monkeypox · September 24, 2009

I don't know, if anything I'd give LA fans the nod over Dallas. And I lived in the Dallas area 23 years.
There are a ton of transplants who never identify with teams out here. Many do though. I can't tell you how many folks I know who have become fans of the Lakers for instance. There's more to do out here, with the beaches etc, so that can cut down on attendance and what not. And yet, I find way more rabid Dodger fans that I ever found Rangers fans. People love their baseball and basketball out here in ways that I never ever saw back in Texas. Maybe I didn't live in the right town back home -- and out here I live in Hollywood(which is near the epicenter of Los Angeles).
I just know that on the same Saturday you can have the Colesium totally filled, the Rose Bowl mostly filled, Staples Center filled to the brim for hockey fans, & a sold out Dodger Stadium for playoff baseball. I know - I saw it happen acouple of years ago. Would that happen in Dallas?

In the same situation with the same population, yes. I lived in Hollywood for some time, myself. The Staples Center is hardly ever full for hockey. They only sold out like 28 games last year, and they average less fans than the Dallas Stars do.

The Dodgers and Lakers get regular attendance. That's it. The Lakers mainly get it because 1) they're perrennial contenders and 2) it's a celebrity hotspot. 75% of the people there don't know the first thing about basketball. They know Kobe. The Dodgers have always been popular, partly due to the fact that they've always been fairly successful, they have a landmark stadium in a central location, and they're cheaper than a lot of things in Los Angeles.

So sure, get the Mavs to win a bunch of titles, have the Rangers win a majority of their games about 80% of the time, and quintuple the population, and yes, you'll see those results here.

Green P1 · September 24, 2009

I love the Cowboys.

CMJ · September 24, 2009

In the same situation with the same population, yes. I lived in Hollywood for some time, myself. The Staples Center is hardly ever full for hockey. They only sold out like 28 games last year, and they average less fans than the Dallas Stars do.
The Dodgers and Lakers get regular attendance. That's it. The Lakers mainly get it because 1) they're perrennial contenders and 2) it's a celebrity hotspot. 75% of the people there don't know the first thing about basketball. They know Kobe. The Dodgers have always been popular, partly due to the fact that they've always been fairly successful, they have a landmark stadium in a central location, and they're cheaper than a lot of things in Los Angeles.
So sure, get the Mavs to win a bunch of titles, have the Rangers win a majority of their games about 80% of the time, and quintuple the population, and yes, you'll see those results here.

Clippers get regular attendance too. Hard to imagine since they suck so bad, but everytime I've ever been to a Clippers game, they've almost a full house. And you don't get much worse than that franchise.

And I will disgree with you on basketball IQ. More people out here know and appreciate basketball than back home. Tho, my personal opinion is it stems from UCLA, not the Lakers.

As far as the Kings and hockey go. For a team as lousy as the Kings have been the last several years(I don't think they've made the playoffs since like 2002) to sell out 2 thirds of their games isn't that bad really. I went to a Kings game acouple years back where they were in last, playing against a team from the East that was like in 8th or 9th - and the game was nearly full as far as i could tell. When I first moved here in 2001, it was sorta tough to get a cheap ticket actually.

Edited September 24, 2009 by CMJ

mad dog · September 24, 2009

Footballball.

Monkeypox · September 24, 2009

Clippers get regular attendance too. Hard to imagine since they suck so bad, but everytime I've ever been to a Clippers game, they've almost a full house. And you don't get much worse than that franchise.
And I will disgree with you on basketball IQ. More people out here know and appreciate basketball than back home. Tho, my personal opinion is it stems from UCLA, not the Lakers.

Well, given that LA has two major college programs that are big players in several sports, and Dallas has zero, I don't think you can make that kind of comparison.

As far as the Kings and hockey go. For a team as lousy as the Kings have been the last several years(I don't think they've made the playoffs since like 2002) to sell out 2 thirds of their games isn't that bad really. I went to a Kings game acouple years back where they were in last, playing against a team from the East that was like in 8th or 9th - and the game was nearly full as far as i could tell. When I first moved here in 2001, it was sorta tough to get a cheap ticket actually.

The Rangers are every bit as lousy as the Kings. I mean, if lousiness comes into play, then I think it's easy to see why LA supports The Dodgers and Lakers.

CMJ · September 24, 2009

Well, given that LA has two major college programs that are big players in several sports, and Dallas has zero, I don't think you can make that kind of comparison.
The Rangers are every bit as lousy as the Kings. I mean, if lousiness comes into play, then I think it's easy to see why LA supports The Dodgers and Lakers.

I was just saying, I felt LA folks were more knowlegable about basketball on average. Hell, I think on average Dallas folks ar more knowledgeable about football.

Notice, I originally said the cities were pretty comparable. Each has their pluses and minuses. I feel both cities are pretty average sports towns.

Edited September 24, 2009 by CMJ

Monkeypox · September 24, 2009

Notice, I originally said the cities were pretty comparable. Each has their pluses and minuses. I feel both cities are pretty average sports towns.

I still think Dallas profiles well above average, though I agree LA has kind of a bum rap, most of which stems from not having an NFL team. Personally, I have a hard time thinking they'll ever get one, though, and I'm unwilling to blame the residents/fans in LA, many of whom are transient. Throughout the state there's budget shortfalls, they're talking about closing parks, etc. Hard to ask for or expect the residents to finance a new stadium for the right to pay hundreds of dollars to attend a game.

And granted, I have a fairly bad taste for sports fans because I worked in the film industry, and it's REALLY a place of people who 1) root for teams because it's popular 2) don't follow sports at all or 3) follow teams from somewhere else

When I was there, I rooted for the Raiders. San Diego was already pretty good, I can't bring myself to root for San Fran (nor did we ever get their games, anyway), so I was pretty much stuck. I rooted for:

My Faraway Favorites:

Cowboys, Rangers, Mavs

"Local"

Raiders (blech), Padres, Clippers

The locals were really just accidental bi-product of having them available on TV. And I woulda felt like a tool rooting for a successful Chargers or Dodgers or Lakers franchise.

CMJ · September 24, 2009

Heheheh, I'm also in the entertainment indiustry(not directly, tho I did move out here for that reason). But I also have many friends/contacts that aren't that dialed into "Hollywood".

And there are several reasons that I don't see Los Angeles getting a NFL team anytime soon. Though, if one did come this way, I think it would be a massive success. Alot of folks with money out here would be dying to get seats.