Brett Vito Will Have A Football Recruiting Update

TIgreen01 · June 15, 2009

Wow...didn't mean to stir up the hornets nest. I will say that Steele had last year's recruiting class ranked really highly....so it's not just a case of bias against us. I do tend to lean toward the same point of view as 97and03, on this though---this class was definitely attempting to address immediate needs.

Wonder why there is such a discrepancy from Rivals/Scouts to Steele?

TheTastyGreek · June 15, 2009

I will say the talent levels at NT are far greater now than with
the past coaching staff. Really!

The talent level is far greater.

The coaches are light years beyond the ones we used to have.

The schedule is arguably the most favorable one we've seen in a decade.

That's what I've been reading, seeing, and hearing. So... What happens if this season is 4 wins or less? Not a prediction on my part, just a question. If the coaches are the right fit and the talent is head and shoulders above what we used to have... What do we do if the wins and losses aren't delivered this season?

TIgreen01 · June 15, 2009

The talent level is far greater.
The coaches are light years beyond the ones we used to have.
The schedule is arguably the most favorable one we've seen in a decade.
That's what I've been reading, seeing, and hearing. So... What happens if this season is 4 wins or less? Not a prediction on my part, just a question. If the coaches are the right fit and the talent is head and shoulders above what we used to have... What do we do if the wins and losses aren't delivered this season?

You must have been banned when we hashed out that exact topic a few weeks (maybe a month?) back.

...but seriously, that topic sucks. Why? B/c it makes me think back to last season to evaluate what I saw....and I want to forget the whole thing entirely--and I'm sure that's a sentiment that EVERYONE can agree with!

UNT90 · June 15, 2009

West Virgina, and Louisville, were after Atkinson as well.
Yes, Atkinson did choose NT over these other schools.

Says who? Where were the offers? I have a hard time believing either of these 2 programs were after the 5th or 7th best DT in his JUCO conference. Did they evaluate him? Maybe, but I never saw any offer other than ours.

So I guess your saying Dickey was the greatest coach ever or Dodge is the worst?

I am speaking specifically about this last class and your claim that it is a difference maker. No offense, but I'll listen to the experts.

GrandGreen · June 15, 2009

West Virgina, and Louisville, were after Atkinson as well.
Yes, Atkinson did choose NT over these other schools.
UNT90-
I can name many players on this roster, that were recruited
by major programs, that did chose NT over the big boys. Here's one-
How about Sam Roberson, recruited by Alabama and Auburn.
Coach Dodge's recruiting classes have averaged a
Rivals.com rating of 5.3 per player per year.
Dickey's last 3 classes, 04, 05, and 06, had a
average Rivals rating per player of 3.7
Rivals lowest rating for a player is 4.9.
Which would you rather have?
Jack Cumes over Coleman Feely?
Mike Mazzola over Gabe Hollivay, or Matt Tomlinson?
David Collins over Tevinn Cantly?
Brady Hartman over Jeremy Bean?
Thomas Pratt over Lance Dunbar?
Trent Stanly over JJ Johnson?
Tim Patton over Jesse DeSoto, Troy Franklin
I will say the talent levels at NT are far greater now than with
the past coaching staff. Really!

Being able to recruit better than DD in his last few seasons is not going to thrill anyone. I fail to see what your comparison of players means. You have compared players that played little or never touched the field recruited by DD with players who have played or some that I guess you think have good potential recruited by TD. I guess you could make the case for DD recruiting by comparing Nwigwe, Bush, Drake, Robertson and Santiago with players recruited by TD that have already left the program.

The facts are that every outside source rated last year's class at the bottom of the Texas schools and close to the bottom of the Belt. Some of the same people that are disregarding those ratings thought they were right on two years ago when NT was hailed as having one of the best classes in recent history. I think TD and staff did as well as they could last year considering NT's record, off the field issues, and TD's failure to prove he is a legitimate FB division head coach. I do hope and think they may have landed a few of the proverbial sleepers, that are always proclaimed by staffs that don't sign many players that are identified as front line prospects, who can play.

I do think that TD has raised the talent level over were DD left the program, but it certainly is not were it was in DD's Belt winning years. I just wish DD had worked half as hard at recruiting and overall public relations that Dodge has, NT would be in much better shape and Dickey might have gotten that job away from NT, he so coveted. Dodge is doing a lot of things right with his minicamps and efforts to build better relationships with the high schools, but in the final analysis; only winning is going to substanually improve recruiting.

Greendylan · June 15, 2009

The talent level is far greater.
The coaches are light years beyond the ones we used to have.
The schedule is arguably the most favorable one we've seen in a decade.
That's what I've been reading, seeing, and hearing. So... What happens if this season is 4 wins or less? Not a prediction on my part, just a question. If the coaches are the right fit and the talent is head and shoulders above what we used to have... What do we do if the wins and losses aren't delivered this season?

This is an excellent question. In fact, I really haven't jumped into the "Dodge is and always will be terrible" vs. "Good things are happening" debate because I truly believe that the team's performance in the first two months of the season will determine the fate of the head coach. I don't know for sure--just a hunch. Furthermore, perhaps I'm childishly naive, but if you can't be at least a little optimistic during the summer about your team's upcoming season, then you might as well give up on college football. To me that's simply one of the irrational joys of being a fan and alumnus.

Regardless, if a coaching change is to be made, I imagine that, like Dickey, a dismissal will occur toward the beginning of November. Thus, I can only speculate about what performance during the first eight games will be necessary to avoid a firing. I predict that 3-5 will be the benchmark. This would mean that we were still, at least marginally, in the running for a conference title, and a winning season would still be mathematically possible.

TheTastyGreek · June 16, 2009

This is an excellent question. In fact, I really haven't jumped into the "Dodge is and always will be terrible" vs. "Good things are happening" debate because I truly believe that the team's performance in the first two months of the season will determine the fate of the head coach. I don't know for sure--just a hunch. Furthermore, perhaps I'm childishly naive, but if you can't be at least a little optimistic during the summer about your team's upcoming season, then you might as well give up on college football. To me that's simply one of the irrational joys of being a fan and alumnus.
Regardless, if a coaching change is to be made, I imagine that, like Dickey, a dismissal will occur toward the beginning of November. Thus, I can only speculate about what performance during the first eight games will be necessary to avoid a firing. I predict that 3-5 will be the benchmark. This would mean that we were still, at least marginally, in the running for a conference title, and a winning season would still be mathematically possible.

Sounds very reasonable to me.

UNTLifer · June 16, 2009

Says who? Where were the offers? I have a hard time believing either of these 2 programs were after the 5th or 7th best DT in his JUCO conference. Did they evaluate him? Maybe, but I never saw any offer other than ours.
So I guess your saying Dickey was the greatest coach ever or Dodge is the worst?
I am speaking specifically about this last class and your claim that it is a difference maker. No offense, but I'll listen to the experts.

Did you actually see any offers any recruits received? The experts, Rivals, had our class rated the best in conference based on the numbers above.

TheTastyGreek · June 16, 2009

I don't think anyone at all has made the argument that the coaches are awesome. Many are excited about a strength and conditioning coach for football and DL coach Nelson. Hell even Lonnie is excited about no HS coaches on the D side of the ball and Gandy taking over the Special Teams.

Don't make me break out the search function again...

There's a very vocal faction that does seem to think the coaches are super fantastic. "I believe in...", "They'll prove all the doubters wrong..." "He'll have us nationally ranked within ___ years..." and so forth and so forth. Insinuating or flatly stating that Todd Dodge was the real mastermind behind Gary Pinkel's offensive success. Long time posters (not just GGII in one of his trademark rants) suggesting more than halfway through last season that Dodge's contract should be extended even though there were still three and a half years left on it.

I will say that I do indeed believe that we've got a fantastic defensive coaching staff. DeLoach, Nelson, Petersen... I like Buckels and I think that Rausch will grow tremendously working under Nelson. This is a hell of a staff, and my main reason for optimism this season is the proven ability of nearly every coach on that side of the ball.

And I'll say that I'm a big believer in Leftwich on the offensive side of the ball. Gandy... The man's contributions as a recruiter alone make him a valuable member of the staff. Beyond those two, I don't have much nice to say, so I'll say nothing else about them here at all.

Honestly, I don't want to see Dodge fail because I don't want to see us take a chance with a new defensive staff. The guys we've assembled... That's a phenomenal team of talent for a school with our budget and our recent struggles. If Dodge IS fired, any new head coach would probably want to bring in his own team of assistants.

Anyway, I've lost sight of my point. I'm not going to put words in anyone's mouth... If nobody wants to wave the flag for Dodge here, I'll let it go. I'm pretty sure this isn't the last time this sort of stuff will come up.

filmerj · June 16, 2009

Don't make me break out the search function again...
There's a very vocal faction that does seem to think the coaches are super fantastic. "I believe in...", "They'll prove all the doubters wrong..." "He'll have us nationally ranked within ___ years..." and so forth and so forth. Insinuating or flatly stating that Todd Dodge was the real mastermind behind Gary Pinkel's offensive success. Long time posters (not just GGII in one of his trademark rants) suggesting more than halfway through last season that Dodge's contract should be extended even though there were still three and a half years left on it.
I will say that I do indeed believe that we've got a fantastic defensive coaching staff. DeLoach, Nelson, Petersen... I like Buckels and I think that Rausch will grow tremendously working under Nelson. This is a hell of a staff, and my main reason for optimism this season is the proven ability of nearly every coach on that side of the ball.
And I'll say that I'm a big believer in Leftwich on the offensive side of the ball. Gandy... The man's contributions as a recruiter alone make him a valuable member of the staff. Beyond those two, I don't have much nice to say, so I'll say nothing else about them here at all.
Honestly, I don't want to see Dodge fail because I don't want to see us take a chance with a new defensive staff. The guys we've assembled... That's a phenomenal team of talent for a school with our budget and our recent struggles. If Dodge IS fired, any new head coach would probably want to bring in his own team of assistants.
Anyway, I've lost sight of my point. I'm not going to put words in anyone's mouth... If nobody wants to wave the flag for Dodge here, I'll let it go. I'm pretty sure this isn't the last time this sort of stuff will come up.

welcome back Tasty

Mean Green 93-98 · June 16, 2009

Says who? Where were the offers? I have a hard time believing either of these 2 programs were after the 5th or 7th best DT in his JUCO conference. Did they evaluate him? Maybe, but I never saw any offer other than ours.

Atkinson . . . said that West Virginia has offered him a scholarship.

http://meangreenblog.dentonrc.com/archives...is-options.html

The Fake Lonnie Finch · June 16, 2009

I don't think anyone at all has made the argument that the coaches are awesome. Many are excited about a strength and conditioning coach for football and DL coach Nelson. Hell even Lonnie is excited about no HS coaches on the D side of the ball and Gandy taking over the Special Teams.
There are things to be excited about. The promise of a new season and high expectations are what being a college football fan is all about.

Yes, because with very few quirky exceptions, football games are won along the lines. And, a good defensive line can keep you in the game whether your opponent is running or passing.

We already know that Deloach can develop linebackers. And, Mike Nelson working alongside Dan McCarney for over a decade at Iowa State? Folks, Iowa State was a dead program before McCarney took over. McCarney is a defensive line guy. Nelson was with him all the way.

The guy took no-name recruits and turned them into All-Big 12 players. Nick Leaders, who weighed a mere 250 pounds out of high school, was a first team All-Big 12 nose tackle by 2005. Jason Berryman made 110 tackles as a freshman under the tutelage of Nelson and McCarney. Jordan Karstens, James Reed, and Reggie Hayward went to the NFL after their Iowa State careers with Nelson.

It is exciting to know that we have coaches who have bona fide records of getting players to produce in season one as freshmen, and developing them into NFL players against competition in one of the top conferences in college football. You don't have to worry about the defensive line this year. A real coach is there now taking care of business.

Again, this thing, if it is to turn around this year, will succeed because of the front seven under Deloach and Nelson and the improvements on special teams under coach Gandy. The offense could well be a laughingstock, but I truly believe the defense will make up for it.

Call me crazy.

Edited June 16, 2009 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

UNTLifer · June 16, 2009

Call me crazy.

Crazy, relating to all of the love for Iowa State.

UNT90 · June 16, 2009

Did you actually see any offers any recruits received? The experts, Rivals, had our class rated the best in conference based on the numbers above.

I saw many offers, confirmed on Rivals website. I never saw a confirmed offer for Adkinson (other than Adkinson saying he got an offer). Hey, I just got an offer from UT, believe me? I'm not saying the kid is lying, I'm just saying that there was no independant verification of any offer from any other school.

Please provide the link to the Rivals article (or any other) where they rated this as the top recruiting class in the SBC. I'll believe it then. It sounds to me that you have devised your own way to rate this class, and as stated before, I'll rely on the experts this year.

I hate when I have to do research. From rivals FINAL recruiting ratings:

57) Troy

79) FIU

89) FAU

95) Ark St.

104) UNT

My bad, fifth in the conference, not 7th, but certainly not 1st or 2nd. Again, wear your rose colored glasses if you want, I choose to be a little more realistic this year (as always, I hope I am wrong and we go 12-0 and win the national title).

Edited June 16, 2009 by UNT90

UNT90 · June 16, 2009

Lifers comment was based upon an analysis someone here didthat took the average of the ratings for each player. I don't know if that means anything or is anyway to look at it, but that is what he is talking about.
See below:

Exactly. Maybe someone on the ULM board has a ranking system that shows they have the best class. Same for LaLa, Ark St., Troy, FAU, FIU, and MTSU boards.

Like I said before, I choose to believe the experts this year, not so much because they are experts, but because there is no bias, intentional or unintentional, from their point of view.

emmitt01 · June 16, 2009

Says who? Where were the offers? I have a hard time believing either of these 2 programs were after the 5th or 7th best DT in his JUCO conference. Did they evaluate him? Maybe, but I never saw any offer other than ours.
So I guess your saying Dickey was the greatest coach ever or Dodge is the worst?
I am speaking specifically about this last class and your claim that it is a difference maker. No offense, but I'll listen to the experts.

It's entirely possible the "big boys" did offer some of our recruits. If I were a coach of a Big 6 conference team and had two stud DT's, a couple guys right below their level and a project that I was red-shirting I would probably take a flyer on a guy like Adkinson because he gives me someone to help in my scout team and/or for depth purposes. Same with a lot of the guys we signed.

Here's where the rubber hits the road though unfortunately. We recruited these guys to be difference makers, to start and/or contribute heavily. We want them to be the bridge from 1-11 and 2-10 to 6, 7 or 8 wins. We actually expect them to be the dudes we put on the media guide cover and not the guy you find on page 78 of the media guide.

Edited June 16, 2009 by emmitt01

Harry · June 16, 2009

8) It is the Belt. Troy is still good and FIU rising. But other than that, anyone can beat anyone on any given Saturday.

I take issue with this, the Belt is becoming a very solid league from top to bottom. This is a much more difficult conference to win as compared to when Dickey was coaching us to 4 consecutive conference championships.

UNT90 · June 16, 2009

I take issue with this, the Belt is becoming a very solid league from top to bottom. This is a much more difficult conference to win as compared to when Dickey was coaching us to 4 consecutive conference championships.

We were just rated 120 out of 120 D1 schools, so "very solid league from top to bottom" would not be accurate.

Edited June 16, 2009 by UNT90