The Terminator's Idiotic Tax Plan

[SUMG]

See.....I can bash Republicans, too. Especially idiots like this steroid freak:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/06/flat-tax.html

[oldguystudent]

15%!?!? The top tax bracket for earners of over a million dollars currently in California is 10.3%! So it's massive increases across the board! 50% for the wealthy, 650% for the poorest of the poor. I can't see anybody winning in this one.

[CMJ]

The state has to get some way to increase revenue. CA is so screwed financially right now.

[keith]

The state has to get some way to increase revenue. CA is so screwed financially right now.

I've always had a problem with the government referring to taxes as revenue, like it was something they earned. Revenue has such a nice connotation to it. Government needs to look for radical and daring ways to cut expenses and roll back its continuing encroachment into all facets of our lives.

Keith

[CMJ]

We all complain about government spending - even more the more "lberal" people like you must assume I am(tho to be fair, I do vote for Republicans about as often as Democrats).

The problem with how CA allocates its funds is a large part of it is done by ballot measure, which gives the state legislature very few items they can really cut besides government run entities. That's why the state is about to lay off about a quarter of our teachers, and the local DMV's are only open 4 days a week, and other things such as that. The state is going broke, and there's very little that can be done by the legislature at this point without rasing taxes of some sort.

We're in a awful crappy mess out here.

[UNTflyer]

"But opponents dislike that it taxes the wealthy at the same rates as the poor."

What a novel concept! The price of being a citizen is applied equally to all! Everyone pays the exact same percentage of their income.

Here are some fun facts about Title 26 (the U.S. federal tax code)...

... the code of Federal Regulations (the IRS version) is 13,458 pages.

... you can order a copy from the government for $974.

... it comes in 20 hardcover volumes.

... at an average 12-point font, 5 letters and a space comprising a word, and a conservative average of 300 words per page, the federal regulations on income taxes is over 4 million words.

... in the year 2006, U.S. citizens (not including corporations) spent a total of $26.5 billion preparing federal income taxes.

[keith]

We all complain about government spending - even more the more "lberal" people like you must assume I am(tho to be fair, I do vote for Republicans about as often as Democrats).

Sorry CMJ, I didn't mean to lump you in with my general comments about the govenment nor did I intend to imply any assumptions about you. It was just convenient for me to snip your post since it included the euphemistic word I wanted to comment on. We've all heard "taxes" (basically something the government takes from us by force) referred to as "revenue" (the income earned through some service or product or property) that none of us hardly think twice about it. In my opinion when the general population hears the government say, "we need to find creative ways to increase revenue" instead of "we need to find creative ways to raise your taxes" they have a completely different reaction when it is the exact same thing.

Keith

[UNT90]

The state has to get some way to increase revenue. CA is so screwed financially right now.

Here is a thought, cut your spending! The American public has had to tighten the belt, why shouldn't government?

[oldguystudent]

Here is a thought, cut your spending! The American public has had to tighten the belt, why shouldn't government?

CMJ's pretty spot on on how California works though. Everything, and I mean everything is done though public ballot. It's nigh impossible for even the most conservative state legislature ever created in the history of the universe to override the system of spending in California.

[CMJ]

CMJ's pretty spot on on how California works though. Everything, and I mean everything is done though public ballot. It's nigh impossible for even the most conservative state legislature ever created in the history of the universe to override the system of spending in California.

Exactly, the Governor and legislature are hamstrung. We are the closest experiment ever for direct democracy - and we show why it doesn't work.

[keith]

Exactly, the Governor and legislature are hamstrung. We are the closest experiment ever for direct democracy - and we show why it doesn't work.

Then who is it that determines what is put on the ballot and how it is worded? Perhaps things are getting lost as it's translated into 44 different languages. The threats and ultimatums from politicians about what's going to get cut if you don't accept their way never changes. There was just a local vote up in my town with a single issue:

Do you approve a city budget of $xxx,xxx,xxx.xx as proposed by the first selectman and finance committee....... yes or no

That was it. Prior to the vote the city council made it well known that if the budget was not approved that the first thing that would be cut would be education. They would not even consider anything else, they were just going to start slashing the school budget. Who doesn't support education? That's usually the top of everyone's priority list and they don't want to see that cut (as if there wasn't anything else). The PTA and concerned citizens jumped on board and made the vote a referendum on education instead of an across the board tax hike. Yep you guessed it, the budget (tax increase) passed.

Keith

[oldguystudent]

Then who is it that determines what is put on the ballot and how it is worded?

It's a process of petition. If you're able to get X number of verified signatures, you can put it up for a state vote to deify monkey poo and make it a mandatory vegetable choice in school cafeterias.

[CMJ]

Then who is it that determines what is put on the ballot and how it is worded? Perhaps things are getting lost as it's translated into 44 different languages. The threats and ultimatums from politicians about what's going to get cut if you don't accept their way never changes. There was just a local vote up in my town with a single issue:

Do you approve a city budget of $xxx,xxx,xxx.xx as proposed by the first selectman and finance committee....... yes or no

That was it. Prior to the vote the city council made it well known that if the budget was not approved that the first thing that would be cut would be education. They would not even consider anything else, they were just going to start slashing the school budget. Who doesn't support education? That's usually the top of everyone's priority list and they don't want to see that cut (as if there wasn't anything else). The PTA and concerned citizens jumped on board and made the vote a referendum on education instead of an across the board tax hike. Yep you guessed it, the budget (tax increase) passed.

Keith

Pretty much whoever starts getting the signatures for petitions are the people who decide how it's worded. Then when the politicians can't resolve their differences in Sacramento some of them start another round of ballot measures.

Any budget needs a 2 thirds approval from the State Legislature, and yet the Propositions we vote on(most of which directly effect the budget) only need a simple majority. Tell me how that makes sense.

[CMJ]

It's a process of petition. If you're able to get X number of verified signatures, you can put it up for a state vote to deify monkey poo and make it a mandatory vegetable choice in school cafeterias.

I think in the previous ballot cycle we had initiatives to raise taxes, change the way lottery money is distributed, change the way the Indian gaming works, put restrictions on what ranchers can do with their livestock, and irrigation re-routing.

I mean, that's why we ELECT PEOPLE....but regular voters decide all that garbage. And then we wonder why we have budgetary problems. It's a boondoggle.

[yyz28]

Once the Mob realizes they can get more for themselves by taxing others, the system is bound for failure.