Question About Ten Commandments

[oldguystudent]

Martha Stewart definition or Urban Dictionary definition?

There is no way I'm looking that up! I think I can, without knowledge of the definition, say, "Ewwwwww!!!!"

[meangreendork]

It suddenly occurs to me that those who loathe government involvement in just about every other aspect of life cheer on its adamant endorsement and participation in the sphere of religion. If anything, I only want my government involved in the distribution of Boston Creme pies. That'll keep their attention diverted from the pecans.

That's because they want government supporting their religion. If it was a situation where I wanted a government-sponsored church of Cthulhu or the god of the Pastafarians, I'd see all sorts of flack. And frankly, that's okay. Cthulhu doesn't need the government.

[Censored by Laurie]

There is no way I'm looking that up! I think I can, without knowledge of the definition, say, "Ewwwwww!!!!"

There was a reason I didn't provide a link

[meangreenbob]

Big piece of bait you lay out there. Fine, I'll take a nibble.

Commandments 1-3 assume that your God is my God and/or that I am subject to your God regardless of what my personal beliefs are. Placing these commandments in a public place (defined, I assume, as US government property) implies that the US government endorses your God as the one. Even if you want to argue that this nation was founded as a Christian nation with the ten commandments as a basis of its law (in which case I think you'd be confusing the time and place of John Winthrop with that of Tom Jefferson), and you say that a majority of Americans believe this, you are bringing manifestation to De Tocqueville's prediction of tyranny of the majority.

Commandment 4 -- p'shaw! Like anybody except the Jews give any credence whatsoever to this one.

Commandment 5 -- I'll be sure to mail that one in to the father who beat the crap out of me and most likely fondled my sister.

Commandment 6 -- God unfortunately forgot to define the meaning of this one.

Commandments 7-9 -- Meh. I'm good with those, with the possible exception of the fully consenting adult participants of the now defunct Cherry Pit.

Commandment 10 -- Dude, have you seen my neighbor's wife!?!?

It's sad that your father beat the crap out of you. But should we do away with speed limit signs on the highway because many people don't obey them? Also, I believe you are thinking of the fourth Commandment.

If you start at the 10th Commandment and move your way up you will find that this is the map that leads to peace. The very peace that the world is looking for. Of course there is but one Author, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and man's pride and Satan will lead many astray. Maybe even you?

As for Thomas Jefferson. While serving in the Virginia General assembly he was the one who personally introduced a resolution for a Day of Fasting and Prayer in 1774. When he established the University of Virginia, he encouraged the teaching of religion and set apart space in the Rotunda for chapel services. He also praised the use of the local courthouse in his home town for religious services.

In 1803 President Jefferson recommended that Congress pass a treaty with the Kaskaskia Indians which provided, among other things, a stipend of $100 annually for seven years from the Federal treasury for the support of a Catholic priest to minister to the Kaskaskia Indians.

In 1787, another act of Congress ordained special lands "for the sole use of Christian Indians" and reserved lands for the Moravian Brethren "for civilizing the Indians and promoting Christianity".........Congress extended this act THREE times during Jefferson's administration and each time (Jefferson) signed the extension into law.

As President Woodrow Wilson so astutely observered;

"A nation which does not remember what it was yesterday, does not know what it is today, nor what it is trying to do. We are trying to do a futile thing if we do not know where we came from or what we have been about...The Bible ...is the one Supreme source of revelation of the meaning of life, the nature of God and...nature and needs of man. It is the only guide of life which really leads the spirit in the way of peace and salvation."

It hurts to see so many young Americans unknowingly fall victim to the mean and ugly process of Ideological Subversion thru disinformation, lies and propganda.

II Chronicles 7:14

[emmitt01]

It's sad that your father beat the crap out of you. But should we do away with speed limit signs on the highway because many people don't obey them? Also, I believe you are thinking of the fourth Commandment.

If you start at the 10th Commandment and move your way up you will find that this is the map that leads to peace. The very peace that the world is looking for. Of course there is but one Author, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and man's pride and Satan will lead many astray. Maybe even you?

As for Thomas Jefferson. While serving in the Virginia General assembly he was the one who personally introduced a resolution for a Day of Fasting and Prayer in 1774. When he established the University of Virginia, he encouraged the teaching of religion and set apart space in the Rotunda for chapel services. He also praised the use of the local courthouse in his home town for religious services.

In 1803 President Jefferson recommended that Congress pass a treaty with the Kaskaskia Indians which provided, among other things, a stipend of $100 annually for seven years from the Federal treasury for the support of a Catholic priest to minister to the Kaskaskia Indians.

In 1787, another act of Congress ordained special lands "for the sole use of Christian Indians" and reserved lands for the Moravian Brethren "for civilizing the Indians and promoting Christianity".........Congress extended this act THREE times during Jefferson's administration and each time (Jefferson) signed the extension into law.

As President Woodrow Wilson so astutely observered;

"A nation which does not remember what it was yesterday, does not know what it is today, nor what it is trying to do. We are trying to do a futile thing if we do not know where we came from or what we have been about...The Bible ...is the one Supreme source of revelation of the meaning of life, the nature of God and...nature and needs of man. It is the only guide of life which really leads the spirit in the way of peace and salvation."

It hurts to see so many young Americans unknowingly fall victim to the mean and ugly process of Ideological Subversion thru disinformation, lies and propganda.

II Chronicles 7:14

And with that, folks, the lockdown should be imminent.

[UNTLifer]

And with that, folks, the lockdown should be imminent.

Why, because he stated historical facts and didn't take a course of demeaning or belittling one's belief system? Not sure I follow you.

[meangreendork]

Because it makes absolute sense to say that you want the government out of your life, but yet you want them to push religion. Funny.

Oh, wait, that's because it's your religion.

Wait a sec, then we run into a problem. Judaism? Buddhism? Christianity? Which one? Catholic? Protestant? Orthodox? And then beyond that, Anglican? Baptist? Southern Baptist? Pentecostal? Fundamental? Episcopalian? Church of Christ?

Good luck with that. You've got a country with a myriad of religions in it, then an entire flood of denominations, sub-denominations, organizations, and any number of differences in doctrine underneath. Regardless of the original church/state separation's purpose, you're looking at a situation where you either force religion on those who don't follow you exactly, or you're having it forced on you.

Edited June 12, 2009 by meangreendork

[Censored by Laurie]

Wait a sec, then we run into a problem. Judaism? Buddhism? Christianity? Which one? Catholic? Protestant? Orthodox? And then beyond that, Anglican? Baptist? Southern Baptist? Pentecostal? Fundamental? Episcopalian? Church of Christ?

Leave out snake-handling again. Go ahead...see what happens.

[yyz28]

I'm an agnostic and used to be an atheist, and am... GASP... a CONSERVATIVE.

The Constitution states that the Federal Government may not establish a religious state. That is the beginning and the end of the statement. Yet people try to make it so much more. It doesn't promise you freedom FROM religion. It doesn't prohibit states from having official religions of the state. It certainly doesn't say kids can't pray in school, organized or otherwise. The placement of the basis of our legal system in prominent display is NOT a violation of establishing a state religion. Forcing you to read them is also not a violation of this statement. Holding a gun to your head, telling you believe or die and then forcing you to attend religious ceremony regularly WOULD be a violation of the Constitution.

...all other "walls" erected to limit religious display or practice in public or on Public property are made up and not in line with the first amendment to the constitution, which reads simply that

"Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise threof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or of the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petiiton the Government for a redress of grievances."

Note, the amendment doesn't say "individual states may not establish a religion", and further goes on to say that the Congress may not prohibit the free exercise thereof, making any federal involvement in the placement of the ten commandments in any setting unconstitutional both under the "prohibiting the free exercise thereof" and "freedom of speech" portion of the amendment. Further more, federal rulings regarding prayer in school are violations of the "prohibiting the free exercise thereof", "freedom of speech" and "right of the people peaceably to assemble" portions of the First Amendment.

Any rulings to the contrary made historically by the supreme court are simply bad law and examples of legislating from the bench.

People FEVERISHLY practicing their religion around me does not force me to believe what they believe.

[Bryan316]

In 1803 President Jefferson recommended that Congress pass a treaty with the Kaskaskia Indians which provided, among other things, a stipend of $100 annually for seven years from the Federal treasury for the support of a Catholic priest to minister to the Kaskaskia Indians.

In 1787, another act of Congress ordained special lands "for the sole use of Christian Indians" and reserved lands for the Moravian Brethren "for civilizing the Indians and promoting Christianity".........Congress extended this act THREE times during Jefferson's administration and each time (Jefferson) signed the extension into law.

What, pray tell, was wrong with the established religions and belief systems of the Kaskaskia and other Native American tribes?

[NT03]

Thou shall not covet thy neighbor's wife.

Does that mean it's okay for a woman to cheat on her husband ??

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

The left coast and Hollywood elite are ruining America

--It all started when we elected Reagan..... a former actor and twice elected President of a liberal labor Union. -- ( The Screen Actors's Guild )

He more than doubled the national debt despite claiming to be conservative the entire time.... you judge, was he??

Edited June 13, 2009 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

I'm an agnostic and used to be an atheist, and am... GASP... a CONSERVATIVE.

The Constitution states that the Federal Government may not establish a religious state. That is the beginning and the end of the statement. Yet people try to make it so much more. It doesn't promise you freedom FROM religion. It doesn't prohibit states from having official religions of the state. It certainly doesn't say kids can't pray in school, organized or otherwise. The placement of the basis of our legal system in prominent display is NOT a violation of establishing a state religion. Forcing you to read them is also not a violation of this statement. Holding a gun to your head, telling you believe or die and then forcing you to attend religious ceremony regularly WOULD be a violation of the Constitution.

...all other "walls" erected to limit religious display or practice in public or on Public property are made up and not in line with the first amendment to the constitution, which reads simply that

"Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise threof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or of the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petiiton the Government for a redress of grievances."

Note, the amendment doesn't say "individual states may not establish a religion", and further goes on to say that the Congress may not prohibit the free exercise thereof, making any federal involvement in the placement of the ten commandments in any setting unconstitutional both under the "prohibiting the free exercise thereof" and "freedom of speech" portion of the amendment. Further more, federal rulings regarding prayer in school are violations of the "prohibiting the free exercise thereof", "freedom of speech" and "right of the people peaceably to assemble" portions of the First Amendment.

Any rulings to the contrary made historically by the supreme court are simply bad law and examples of legislating from the bench.

People FEVERISHLY practicing their religion around me does not force me to believe what they believe.

Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness.... if my state were to establish a "state religion"... the phrase would be denied.

I agree with a lot of what you say but you stretch it too far. I have no objections to the 10 Commandments being posted.. but not in a manner to force people to react to them or too be unusally obvious. Would you object to a Buddist judge to have a Buddist quote on the wall? ...Probably not ..but you would if he made you read it aloud or whatever. ............It is called Freedom of Religion.

Edited June 13, 2009 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[hickoryhouse]

Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness.... if my state were to establish a "state religion"... the phrase would be denied.

I agree with a lot of what you say but you stretch it too far. I have no objections to the 10 Commandments being posted.. but not in a manner to force people to react to them or too be unusally obvious. Would you object to a Buddist judge to have a Buddist quote on the wall? ...Probably not ..but you would if he made you read it aloud or whatever. ............It is called Freedom of Religion.

Exactly. Tasteful displays are great, people can believe and worship however they wish. Grandios (sp) displays are not. It doesn't matter what the religion is

[FirefightnRick]

I'm an agnostic and used to be an atheist, and am... GASP... a CONSERVATIVE.

The Constitution states that the Federal Government may not establish a religious state. That is the beginning and the end of the statement. Yet people try to make it so much more. It doesn't promise you freedom FROM religion. It doesn't prohibit states from having official religions of the state. It certainly doesn't say kids can't pray in school, organized or otherwise. The placement of the basis of our legal system in prominent display is NOT a violation of establishing a state religion. Forcing you to read them is also not a violation of this statement. Holding a gun to your head, telling you believe or die and then forcing you to attend religious ceremony regularly WOULD be a violation of the Constitution.

...all other "walls" erected to limit religious display or practice in public or on Public property are made up and not in line with the first amendment to the constitution, which reads simply that

"Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise threof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or of the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petiiton the Government for a redress of grievances."

Note, the amendment doesn't say "individual states may not establish a religion", and further goes on to say that the Congress may not prohibit the free exercise thereof, making any federal involvement in the placement of the ten commandments in any setting unconstitutional both under the "prohibiting the free exercise thereof" and "freedom of speech" portion of the amendment. Further more, federal rulings regarding prayer in school are violations of the "prohibiting the free exercise thereof", "freedom of speech" and "right of the people peaceably to assemble" portions of the First Amendment.

Any rulings to the contrary made historically by the supreme court are simply bad law and examples of legislating from the bench.

People FEVERISHLY practicing their religion around me does not force me to believe what they believe.

Good post.

Rick

[yyz28]

Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness.... if my state were to establish a "state religion"... the phrase would be denied.

I agree with a lot of what you say but you stretch it too far. I have no objections to the 10 Commandments being posted.. but not in a manner to force people to react to them or too be unusally obvious. Would you object to a Buddist judge to have a Buddist quote on the wall? ...Probably not ..but you would if he made you read it aloud or whatever. ............It is called Freedom of Religion.

The phrase "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness" does not appear in the constitution, but rather the Declaration of Independence. This matters because nothing the the Declaration superseeds that which is in the Constitution. In fact, anything that the Declaration says in opposition to the Constitution, the Constitution superseeds. In terms of law in this country today, the Declaration isn't worth the paper it is written on.

...and the State creating a state religion could not be done at the expense of YOUR right to pursue whatever religion you wish, it simply means "this is the one the state argrees with". Now if the establishment of a State religion forces you into that belief structure, you'd have a point. ...and I'm not suggesting that state religions are a good idea, only that the only state forbidden to do so in the Constitution is the Federal Government.

I don't object to any religious quote on the wall. Frankly, I wouldn't personally object to reciting it. Now, asked if I believed it or not, I'd say what I really believe. I'm not sure how reading or stating any religious dogma forces me to believe or violates my belief system.