Brett Hull Out, Joe Nieuwendyk In

UNTflyer · May 31, 2009

DALLAS -- Brett Hull and Les Jackson are out as co-general managers of the Dallas Stars, and in their place is another former star player, Joe Nieuwendyk.

The surprising change was announced Sunday. Nieuwendyk had been the special assistant to the general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs. In 1999, he won the Conn Smythe Award when Dallas won its first and only Stanley Cup title, the series-winning goal coming from Hull.Hull and Jackson spent the past 1½ seasons in their unique joint venture running the front office. Besides the strange arrangement, their tenure will be best remembered for the ill-fated signing of Sean Avery.

The duo are remaining on the payroll in "positions that focus on their respective strengths," according to a news release. Hull will serve as executive vice president and alternate governor, while Jackson will return to his longtime role as director of scouting and player development.

Rudy · June 1, 2009

WTF? STUPID move. Nothing against Newy, and he may turn out to be a good GM, but last year was a mulligan with all of the injuries. This current team needs another year to show what they have, unless they are able to sign a FA in a position of need. Whose bonehead idea was this????

KingDL1 · June 1, 2009

WTF? STUPID move. Nothing against Newy, and he may turn out to be a good GM, but last year was a mulligan with all of the injuries. This current team needs another year to show what they have, unless they are able to sign a FA in a position of need. Whose bonehead idea was this????

Brett bet the farm on Avery and lost, oh well he still has a job.

Welcome Newy!

Now if we can get a new coach to motivate these guys. Not talking just last year, and I do think Dave Tippett is a good coach, I would just like to see a change.

CaribbeanGreen · June 1, 2009

Somewhere, Paul Cavallini is polishing his resume.

Rudy · June 1, 2009

Brett bet the farm on Avery and lost, oh well he still has a job.
Welcome Newy!
Now if we can get a new coach to motivate these guys. Not talking just last year, and I do think Dave Tippett is a good coach, I would just like to see a change.

This team still nearly made the playoffs even with the Avery disaster. The injuries are what cost the team the playoffs. The entire team deserved a mulligan. Tippett earned another year after the playoff run. How many years did we have to put up with that abortion of a GM Doug Armstrong when he made screw up after screw up. Hell, his first move was to trade Newy AND Lagenbrunner for Arnott. Yeah, we got two throw in players, one of whome retired after that season and the other returned to NJ. We had to sit through the Turgeon era. Then he lets Arnott and Guerin both go without getting anything in return of them. All of this while year after year watching teams make moves during free agency while he had a "Gone Fishin" sign on his office door.

I have nothing against Newy. I think he was an amazing player, and we acquired him for Igilna in one of the few trades in any sport where both teams win. And I hope that all of the accounts of him being one of the brightest front office personnel in the game is true. All I am saying is that I saw no reason to reassign Hull and Jackson. At least not yet.

Censored by Laurie · June 1, 2009

Tippet gets a pass b/c of injuries...but GM is about putting the roster together and the Avery move was just inexcusable...I was really surprised one or both of them weren't let go right after Avery was cut.

Rudy, I could understand your not liking this move if Jackson and Hull were both fired, but this seems like a win-win situation for the Stars. Newy has front office expirience...Hull will probably basically serve in an advisory role...and Jackson ends up back where he belongs, scouting and bringing in kids like Erickson and Brunnstrom (I believe we're in the running for another Swede prospect).

Michael Scott · June 1, 2009

Tippet gets a pass b/c of injuries...but GM is about putting the roster together and the Avery move was just inexcusable...I was really surprised one or both of them weren't let go right after Avery was cut.
Rudy, I could understand your not liking this move if Jackson and Hull were both fired, but this seems like a win-win situation for the Stars. Newy has front office expirience...Hull will probably basically serve in an advisory role...and Jackson ends up back where he belongs, scouting and bringing in kids like Erickson and Brunnstrom (I believe we're in the running for another Swede prospect).

I promised myself I wouldn't get involved but...

Last year's team was a flawed construct. It BADLY needed a defensemen - or two- and the team was unable to address that. In the summer, the front office targeted a list of D-Men and the Ambassador of Fun decided that his old Wings roommate was more important than the wishes of the players and front office. He is extremely lucky he was not banished immediately last December along with the other sloppy seconds.

Then, with the team in flux most of the year, there were a few scrap heap moves (Begin, Razor's brother-in-law, Boucher for Sydor), but nothing of note happened. San Jose saw their short-comings and acquired Dan Boyle. Chicago got Brian Campbell. They went 9-1 against the Stars this year. This team has too much young talent not to address their slow D, and if you are counting on Zubov to come back and play 80 games, you are smoking rocks. They need to put together a package for Bowmeister (sp) or someone comparable or make use of cap space and trades to find at least 2 guys. They also need to figure out how to mix Vishneiski (sp again) into the group this year for his shot alone. He has learned all he in can in the minors.

They also failed to address the backup situation last year - and while the stud Swiss prospect they are bidding against Toronto for would be nice - finding someone reliable (Clime or otherwise) to take 15-20 starts is a necessity.

If you blast Armstrong, you blast the acquisition of every young player and trade that made this roster. Armstrong brought in Robidas, Mike Smith, Jokinen, Neal, Eriksson, etc. and made the Ribeiro heist happen. Sure, he made a bad trade early (that was also a product in love with the player who had just beat his team and panicking), but he kept this team around the top of the West until this year despite cap trouble and terrible FA signings before him.

I feel much better having a guy with legitimate experience in a front office outside of a fun ambassadorship running this thing. I might have gone with an assistant from a current organization, but to demand keeping Hull is just crazy talk.

Censored by Laurie · June 1, 2009

I promised myself I wouldn't get involved but...
Last year's team was a flawed construct. It BADLY needed a defensemen - or two- and the team was unable to address that. In the summer, the front office targeted a list of D-Men and the Ambassador of Fun decided that his old Wings roommate was more important than the wishes of the players and front office. He is extremely lucky he was not banished immediately last December along with the other sloppy seconds.
Then, with the team in flux most of the year, there were a few scrap heap moves (Begin, Razor's brother-in-law, Boucher for Sydor), but nothing of note happened. San Jose saw their short-comings and acquired Dan Boyle. Chicago got Brian Campbell. They went 9-1 against the Stars this year. This team has too much young talent not to address their slow D, and if you are counting on Zubov to come back and play 80 games, you are smoking rocks. They need to put together a package for Bowmeister (sp) or someone comparable or make use of cap space and trades to find at least 2 guys. They also need to figure out how to mix Vishneiski (sp again) into the group this year for his shot alone. He has learned all he in can in the minors.
They also failed to address the backup situation last year - and while the stud Swiss prospect they are bidding against Toronto for would be nice - finding someone reliable (Clime or otherwise) to take 15-20 starts is a necessity.
If you blast Armstrong, you blast the acquisition of every young player and trade that made this roster. Armstrong brought in Robidas, Mike Smith, Jokinen, Neal, Eriksson, etc. and made the Ribeiro heist happen. Sure, he made a bad trade early (that was also a product in love with the player who had just beat his team and panicking), but he kept this team around the top of the West until this year despite cap trouble and terrible FA signings before him.
I feel much better having a guy with legitimate experience in a front office outside of a fun ambassadorship running this thing. I might have gone with an assistant from a current organization, but to demand keeping Hull is just crazy talk.

Sorry to keep you involved...but do you know who the other Swede NHL teams are in a Brunnstrom-like bidding war for again this off-season? I think I heard it referrenced on Bob and Dan...maybe Brunnstrom's former teammate?

~~Maybe~~ I'm high.

hickoryhouse · June 1, 2009

Sorry to keep you involved...but do you know who the other Swede NHL teams are in a Brunnstrom-like bidding war for again this off-season? I think I heard it referrenced on Bob and Dan...maybe Brunnstrom's former teammate?
~~Maybe~~ I'm high.

I'm jealous

Rudy · June 1, 2009

Rudy, I could understand your not liking this move if Jackson and Hull were both fired, but this seems like a win-win situation for the Stars. Newy has front office expirience...Hull will probably basically serve in an advisory role...and Jackson ends up back where he belongs, scouting and bringing in kids like Erickson and Brunnstrom (I believe we're in the running for another Swede prospect).

I just think they deserved another year to redeem themselves

If you blast Armstrong, you blast the acquisition of every young player and trade that made this roster. Armstrong brought in Robidas, Mike Smith, Jokinen, Neal, Eriksson, etc. and made the Ribeiro heist happen. Sure, he made a bad trade early (that was also a product in love with the player who had just beat his team and panicking), but he kept this team around the top of the West until this year despite cap trouble and terrible FA signings before him.

I give Jackson more credit for the young players. Army wanted to get rid of Ribeiro, it was Hull who was intent on keeping him. Armstrong's first trade was a terrible one, then he routinely did NOTHING during FA. The only big FA move he made was to sign Turgeon, yay. It was Hitch and Tip that kept the team near the top every year.

The other part of this paragraph is confusing. Armstrong has been gone for about a year and a half. The cap trouble and terrible FA signings you reference were his doing.

Michael Scott · June 1, 2009

Sorry - my writing was a bit convuluted.

The problem with saying Hull needs a year to redeem himself is that he never did anything before hand. He showed up and the team got healthy, then was part of the group that made the Richards trade. It was a great "all-in" move, but for the long-term, they lost a top-goalie prospect who had a better year than Turco on a bad team, never addressed defensive shortcomings and used a roster left to him by Armstrong as his prospects came to maturity this year and last. If Hull had been dumped with no emotional plan in mind or for a retread, I'd share your outrage, but they got a hockey mind and kept both Jackson and Hull in the fold to play to their strengths.

Would you have been mad if Hull had been let go and Jackson promoted like everyone assumed would happen?

As much as you seem to blame Armstrong, he recognized that the NHL was changing to speed in 2002/2003 and did his best to work around it. The Turgeon signing was exactly what happened with Hull - they didn't get the guy they wanted and felt they had to sign a big name right away. If Armstrong is worth firing for this, why isn't Hull?

Now back to Armstrong. He brought in guys like Hagman, Barnes and Ribiero for pennies on the dollar. He made trades for guys like Willie Mitchell, Robidas and Mattias Nordstrom on the fly and understood that he needed to build from the blue line up, too. The team went 210–109–35–23 under him. No, they didn't win in the playoffs, but this has been one of the most consistent teams this decade. Hull didn't make Marty Turco figure it out last Spring and Jackson did most of the work on the Richards trade. If you were outraged over Jackson, I wouldn't even comment, but I see nothing on Hull's resume except his player accomplishments to make him really worth mourning.

Oh, and CBL, the prospect you are talking about is the same goalie I'm talking about: Jonas Gustavsson.

As for next year, two more prospects to watch are Vishneskiv and Benn. They still need to add a winger and address a D group that only has Hutchinson, Daley, Robidas, Grossman and Niksanen under contract. Zubov, Sydor and Fistric are all free agents they have to decide on as well. Do you want the Ambassador of fun making those decisions that will determine the next 3-4 years or a an up and coming GM prospect that the entire hockey world almost universally praises who will take the time to do the job?

I hope that made sense - I wrote half earlier and half now, but feel free to rip it up or call me out if needed on crappy parts.

Rudy · June 2, 2009

Sorry - my writing was a bit convuluted.
The problem with saying Hull needs a year to redeem himself is that he never did anything before hand. He showed up and the team got healthy, then was part of the group that made the Richards trade. It was a great "all-in" move, but for the long-term, they lost a top-goalie prospect who had a better year than Turco on a bad team, never addressed defensive shortcomings and used a roster left to him by Armstrong as his prospects came to maturity this year and last. If Hull had been dumped with no emotional plan in mind or for a retread, I'd share your outrage, but they got a hockey mind and kept both Jackson and Hull in the fold to play to their strengths.
Would you have been mad if Hull had been let go and Jackson promoted like everyone assumed would happen?
As much as you seem to blame Armstrong, he recognized that the NHL was changing to speed in 2002/2003 and did his best to work around it. The Turgeon signing was exactly what happened with Hull - they didn't get the guy they wanted and felt they had to sign a big name right away. If Armstrong is worth firing for this, why isn't Hull?
Now back to Armstrong. He brought in guys like Hagman, Barnes and Ribiero for pennies on the dollar. He made trades for guys like Willie Mitchell, Robidas and Mattias Nordstrom on the fly and understood that he needed to build from the blue line up, too. The team went 210–109–35–23 under him. No, they didn't win in the playoffs, but this has been one of the most consistent teams this decade. Hull didn't make Marty Turco figure it out last Spring and Jackson did most of the work on the Richards trade. If you were outraged over Jackson, I wouldn't even comment, but I see nothing on Hull's resume except his player accomplishments to make him really worth mourning.
Oh, and CBL, the prospect you are talking about is the same goalie I'm talking about: Jonas Gustavsson.
As for next year, two more prospects to watch are Vishneskiv and Benn. They still need to add a winger and address a D group that only has Hutchinson, Daley, Robidas, Grossman and Niksanen under contract. Zubov, Sydor and Fistric are all free agents they have to decide on as well. Do you want the Ambassador of fun making those decisions that will determine the next 3-4 years or a an up and coming GM prospect that the entire hockey world almost universally praises who will take the time to do the job?
I hope that made sense - I wrote half earlier and half now, but feel free to rip it up or call me out if needed on crappy parts.

Regarding the Smith/Richards trade. Smith is a great goalie who was not going to get fair playing time being on the same team with Turco. Im not totally familiar with the Stars' farm system, but I hear they already have another good goalie there. Even the one they brought up at the end of the year, I forget his name, showed alot of promise. I think it was a great move to get Richards, and I think this may prove to be another one of those "both teams win" trades. I think the straw what broke the camles back this year was the Richards' injury. They were barely able to keep their head above water, but when he injured his OTHER hand in his first game back, that killed the season. The defense has been needing help since Hatcher and Matvichuk left. They just have not been the same back there.

I think they both need another year to redeem themselves. I think the whole team should be given a mulligan after that fluke last season. Even Darren Pang said had the injuries not happened the way they did, Dallas is a dangerous team.

Im not against Newy in any way. I just think Hull and Jackson still needed more time. Im glad they are keeping both of them, and I hope the early reports of Newy's front office genius are accurate. I will still be suppoting the Stars like a madman.

Yes, I am biased against Armstrong, I'll never hide that. I think he set himself up for failure when he traded Newy and Lagnebrunner for Arnott. I never said he should have been fired just for the Turgeon signing. I think he should have been fired for the Newy/Lagenbrunner trade, the Turgeon signing, and the free agency apathy every off season. The reason he had to sign Turgeon is because he realized that people were turning on him because of his lack of even competing for free agents every year. The year before the lockout, many teams signed big names for a one year run because everyone knew that Bettman was going to lock the players out, yet Army did nothing. Lets not forget he nearly let Modano get away in 2005. Modano said he wanted to stay here, but Army didnt make any real offers. It was only when the fans started showing their outrage and Mo was within hours (maybe minutes) of signing with Boston, did he do anything. It was Hull who made the committment to keeping Ribeiro. And as for those players who Army did bring in, Jackson was probably the one who told Army about them.

You stated that if I was upset over Jackson, you wouldnt comment. I thought I made it clear, but Ill go ahead and reiterate it. Im upset about both Hull and Jackson. I think they both deserved another year, but I am hoping that Newy is as good as advertised. Maybe I should put it this way. Its not that I am upset about Hiring Newy, I just dont like the timing.

As for next year, dude this team is dangerous. We havent even finished the Stanley Cup Finals and I am already excited just thinking about next season. They are sooo freakin close. As for their needs, either in the draft, free agency, or people to bring up in the system.

1. We need a Tough D man. Robidas could be our next Zubov, just better on Defense than Zubov. Im a huge Daley fan, I hope he can continue to progress. We havent had that bone crusher since Dhatch and Matvichuk. And we had them at the same time, that was so cool. We need an Ulf Samulsen or a Zdeno Chara.

2. We need a bruiser on Offense. Someone who will not allow our star players to get knocked around, the more talent he has, the better. This would allow Morrow to concentrate on crashing the net and Ott to forcus on pissing the other team off, and our scorers to, well score. We must keep Lehtinen around. His brains of the game are second to none. He is never out of position and he is able to use his smarts to keep him effective on the ice.

3. Back up Goalie. Stefan needs to play everyday in the minors for now. He isnt ready to take the rains temporarily for an injured Turco. I liked what I saw from Mark Climie at the end of the season. I think he is closer than anyone to being ready for a backup role. If we can get someone like Gustavsson without giving up anyone, even better.

Like I said, Im not against bringing Newy here, I just didnt like the timing. But, the more I hear about how well he is thought of in the front offices around the league, the easier my stance is. I will almost always be a fan of the team and If I had the money, Id fork it over for season tix in a heartbeat.

But I still think there is one thing we can all agree on: Brashear and Bertuzzi are still thugs and shouldnt be allowed in the game.

bstnsportsfan3 · June 2, 2009

all i know is i went to one stars game this last season and the stars were the least physical team i had almost ever seen play hockey, i think they had about 3 hits all game. they need so guys who can HIT!

KingDL1 · June 2, 2009

all i know is i went to one stars game this last season and the stars were the least physical team i had almost ever seen play hockey, i think they had about 3 hits all game. they need so guys who can HIT!

Really, was Ott healthy?