North Korea Tests Nuke

SUMG · May 25, 2009

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/may/2...ma-nuclear-test

UNTflyer · May 25, 2009

Oh crap

keith · May 25, 2009

It's a two-fer for the crazies in North Korea. They also tested 3 missles yesterday.

Keith

Edited May 25, 2009 by keith

oldguystudent · May 25, 2009

Seriously guys. They don't have the technology. They can't even get a conventional missile to fly straight. North Korea is the absolute last country I'm worried about.

eulessismore · May 25, 2009

Seriously guys. They don't have the technology. They can't even get a conventional missile to fly straight. North Korea is the absolute last country I'm worried about.

Somehow, incompetence isn't completely reassuring, especially in nuclear matters. Hey, maybe a good use of an american stripper would be to send her over there to ask the dear leader what he really wants. Perhaps you could instruct her on drinking responsibly before she goes.

UNTflyer · May 25, 2009

Seriously guys. They don't have the technology. They can't even get a conventional missile to fly straight. North Korea is the absolute last country I'm worried about.

They test fired 3 missiles this weekend and a long range missile last month. We can't wait until they get good at it. They don't need good missiles, they can stick it in a cargo freighter and pull into San Francisco or New York harbor.

oldguystudent · May 25, 2009

They test fired 3 missiles this weekend and a long range missile last month. We can't wait until they get good at it.

I suppose that's a fair assessment, but I refuse to view them as an imminent threat. They are a starving, incompetent, non-funded entity. Since the USSR pulled out, they got nothin'. China throws them a bone every now and then for food, but not for weapons. Who's the financial backer of all this? Oil countries? Meh, I can't see that.

They don't need good missiles, they can stick it in a cargo freighter and pull into San Francisco or New York harbor.

You've got to admit that to be a little far fetched man. Who's cargo ship? Not like they're gonna slip in onto one of the thousands of North Korean ships bringing imports into the United States. They would basically have to transport a nuclear warhead (which would be huge. Remember they're working with 1940s technology) from North Korea down through China to a port and get it on a container ship bound for San Francisco. That's the stuff of Clancy novels at best.

You want to call Kim Jong Il nuts, insane, evil, antagonistic, bat-crap crazy, that's all fine with me. I'm no North Korea supporter. But I stand by my statement that they are the last threat I fear. Seriously, what's next? Imminent threat of attack from Myanmar?

EagleD · May 25, 2009

After reading the book "Uranium", I'm much more concerned about Pakistan than I am N. Korea.

UNTflyer · May 25, 2009

I suppose that's a fair assessment, but I refuse to view them as an imminent threat. They are a starving, incompetent, non-funded entity. Since the USSR pulled out, they got nothin'. China throws them a bone every now and then for food, but not for weapons. Who's the financial backer of all this? Oil countries? Meh, I can't see that.

The fact that they are starving, IMHO, makes them more dangerous. They can sell a warhead to a terrorist group, and since our intelligence on their nuclear material is woefully inadequate, we'd have a tough time pinning it on them.

I believe we have no choice but to attack North Korea's nuclear facilities with about 1500 tomahawks.

FirefightnRick · May 26, 2009

(which would be huge. Remember they're working with 1940s technology)

Oh, is that all?

"Little Boy".....8900lbs, 9.84 feet long, 28 inches in diameter. 13-18 Kiloton blast yield.

Results on Hiroshima?

"Fat Man".....10,200 lbs, 10.6 feet long, 5 feet in diameter. 21 Kiloton blast yield.

Results on Nagasaki?

Both bombs used on Japan in 1945 could easily fit together inside one 30 foot shipping container.

Rick

Edited May 26, 2009 by FirefightnRick

oldguystudent · May 26, 2009

Gee whiz, you're right! I better get started on that back yard bunker!

FirefightnRick · May 26, 2009

Gee whiz, you're right! I better get started on that back yard bunker!

Well, you live in Frisco, so you won't do anything until you get approval from code compliance and the city.

Good luck with that.

Rick

oldguystudent · May 26, 2009

Well, you live in Frisco, so you won't do anything until you get approval from code compliance and the city.
Good luck with that.
Rick

Touche!

DeepGreen · May 26, 2009

And that darn ole Geroge Bush sure was mean calling N. Korea an "axis of evil". What was he thinking?

And I'm sure the U.N. will take care of this N. Korea matter. NOT!

eulessismore · May 26, 2009

I'm thinking that the whole golf thing has to provide a basis for some weakness; if the North Korean people learned enough about golf to recognize the impossibility of 3 or 4 hole-in-ones per hole, he will be seen as less invincible.

eulesseagle · May 26, 2009

We, the unwashed public, only know that North Korea is one for two on nuclear explosions with the other "experiment" ending in failure some time back after much publicity. It is also unknown how many "unreported" failures the N.K.'s have had since these are, essentially, underground tests. You can bet that major intelligence agencies are not going to leak that information to the public.

Nobody in Frisco, Texas USA and much less anywhere in America should fear a N.K. nuclear attack on our soil. Kim can not even get a light weight satelite in orbit much less get his missles to test fire correctly. A natural assumption would be that with the current technology that is available just about anyone could develop a workable missle with a decent guidance system. That is almost 1940's basic technology and the world has come a long way since the end of WWII. The N.K's have three basic problems.....one: a big missle, two: putting a small nuke on top of the "bird" and three: accurate guidance delivery.

Personally this will be a situation that will be handled by the Chinese since they have shown much displeasure over Kim's actions over the last several years. Realistically, the Chinese want economic power, not only in the region, but also to dominate the world with the Yuen. You might say that they are a little gready when they have the economic advantage especially over the USA, currently. The VERY LAST aspect of change that the Chinese need, now, is to have Kim destablize the region with a nuke blast that would throw an economic monkey wrench into the Chinese economic growth. You can also bet that the Japanese, with their much more sophisicated (US) missle systems and Japanese knock off clones would be able to shoot down Kim's missles. Hey wait you say, what about the missle over flies on recent N.K. missle tests over Japan? OK, unarmed test flights may be not kosher over your homeland when you know that there is no eminent threat of a conventional warhead hitting Tokyo but the real danger will come, possilbly, years from now when, and if, the N.K.'s can develop the appropriate systems. I just do not think that the Chinese will let that happen.

Is this a danger?? of course. It is more of a danger to China than the US. Let the ChiCom's lead the way to "spank" their little brother south of the Yalu River.

Edited May 26, 2009 by eulesseagle

oldguystudent · May 26, 2009

Is this a danger?? of course. It is more of a danger to China than the US. Let the ChiCom's lead the way to "spank" their little brother south of the Yalu River.

My God man! Are you the only person around here who's ever read anything about a subject beyond the borders of the Red River? Nicely played sir. Nicely played indeed.

keith · May 26, 2009

<snip>
Let the ChiCom's lead the way to "spank" their little brother south of the Yalu River.

I suppose we better get used to China leading the way in a lot of things from now on, eh?

Keith

eulesseagle · May 26, 2009

keith-

you do know that china holds most of our debt?

you do know that the United States is not only broke but in debt up to our ears....and beyond??

Kim just wants to foam at the mouth and rattle his sword like any two bit dictator does to get world attention (another 15 minutes of fame) to, hopefully, extort additional "humanitarian aide, again, from the U.S. and promise again not to develop nuclear weapons.

Hummmm......how many times has the United States fallen for this trick?? Let me see.....oh yea, 2006 we gave N.K. humanitarian aide and Kim PROMISED dismantel or stop nuclear production. Let me see.....oh yea, Sadam Hussain did this to us too. Let me see.....oh yea, Somolia pulled this on us. Hummmmm....let me see....I believe a couple of other African countries have pulled this scam on us. In reality the food goes for government officials and the army and little (if any) goes to where it was intended....the poor starving people. OK.....let's try economic sanctions.....Us and the United Nations....hummmmm that does not seem to work either.....ask Hans Blix (sp).

You and oldguy can critisize all you want without giving some sort of solution to the problem.....which is "safe" and "non-threatening" to the both of you.

The point is that the United States is already part of a six nation team, for some time, to bring closure to the problem.

So, keith and oldguy....what is your solution???? Invade? Surgical strikes? More economic sanctions? Give them more humanitarian aid? Build a modern intrastructure? Let me hear some of your intelectual ideas.

oldguystudent · May 26, 2009

So, keith and oldguy....what is your solution???? Invade? Surgical strikes? More economic sanctions? Give them more humanitarian aid? Build a modern intrastructure? Let me hear some of your intelectual ideas.

I just agreed with you whole-heartedly dude. You're letting your preconceptions of me and my Chinese students get in the way of reading my posts.

Edit -- In rereading my initial response, I suppose it could be taken as sarcastic, but really, I was agreeing with you. Asia is a whole different animal than most people realize and your response was the most educated thus far in this thread.

Edited May 26, 2009 by oldguystudent

eulesseagle · May 26, 2009

I just agreed with you whole-heartedly dude. You're letting your preconceptions of me and my Chinese students get in the way of reading my posts.
Edit -- In rereading my initial response, I suppose it could be taken as sarcastic, but really, I was agreeing with you. Asia is a whole different animal than most people realize and your response was the most educated thus far in this thread.

Oldguystudent-

My sincerest apology.....evidently I took your reply the wrong way.

ee

keith · May 26, 2009

So, keith and oldguy....what is your solution???? Invade? Surgical strikes? More economic sanctions? Give them more humanitarian aid? Build a modern intrastructure? Let me hear some of your intelectual ideas.

I'm not sure what I was criticizing. I was simply pointing out the fact that we (the U.S.) better get used to China calling the shots not only in their hemisphere but globally. We've all heard about the growing influence China will have in the future. Well, the future is now. We've allowed ourselves to become a debtor nation on a unprecedented scale and as you pointed out a lot of that is held by China. The Dollar is under incredible pressure and China seems to hold all the cards these days. For all we know China is behind what North Korea is doing and is using it to symbolize how little influence the U.S. really has globally. Politics is a stange animal.

In terms of solution, that's kind of out of my league. I will say that what we've tried to do so far does not seem to have had the desired results.

Keith