College Students In Texas To Carry Guns. (probably)

[UNTFan23]

I think some people aren't seeing the forest for the trees. I think the real question is how many people will actually go out and get a CHL just to carry on campus or how many of those that currently have a CHL will carry? I don't think there's that many that will actually be carrying a concealed handgun in your classroom.

Why are we putting so much energy into caring about people that are following the laws when it's the unlawful people are the ones that cause us so many problems in our society?!?

[Rudy]

Why are we putting so much energy into caring about people that are following the laws when it's the unlawful people are the ones that cause us so many problems in our society?!?

Because that would make sense.

[eulessismore]

Many of the students when I went to North Texas didn't wear enough clothes to conceal much of anything! Ah, the days.

[Boomer23]

The argument of a nut-job coming on campus is not even valid. What is going to stop the nut-job from coming onto campus right now? Oh wait there is a law against carrying guns on campus...I guess they won't do it then.

Carrying a gun on campus would not be to protect the school from a mass shooting, it is about personal protection. There is more probable chance of a woman getting attacked or raped, but even if she had a CHL she could not carry her gun on campus because she crossed the imaginary line that makes her no longer responsible enough to carry a gun.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

Many of the students when I went to North Texas didn't wear enough clothes to conceal much of anything! Ah, the days.

---Damn... I went to college about 3-4 years too early.... Girls were required to wear skirts (they weren't that short unfortunately) until 4:00 when I graduated in 1966... Supposedly the end of the "business" day. Even "the Zoo" (TWU) had more liberal girls dorm hours than UNT did. I went back in the summers of the early 70's and the world had changed... greatly.

[Rudy]

The argument of a nut-job coming on campus is not even valid. What is going to stop the nut-job from coming onto campus right now? Oh wait there is a law against carrying guns on campus...I guess they won't do it then.

Carrying a gun on campus would not be to protect the school from a mass shooting, it is about personal protection. There is more probable chance of a woman getting attacked or raped, but even if she had a CHL she could not carry her gun on campus because she crossed the imaginary line that makes her no longer responsible enough to carry a gun.

You're right, it wont stop a shooting, but it can prevent a mass shooting. If someone were to come onto campus and begin shooting, an armed student may be close enough to difuse the situation and prevent it from esclating before the local police can mobilize.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

http://www.collegeportraits.org/TX/UNT/characteristics

The average age of college students at North Texas is 22 years old. 18% are over 25 years old.

What I find interesting is how so many here are so distraught over 21 year old and older adults legally(CHL licensed) carrying firearms yet every one of you will sleep just fine tonight knowing that countless thousands of 16 year olds will be given free reign to run around responsibly and irresponsibly in 3,000lb plus automobiles tomorrow, driving in and around all of you AND your families as you commute to work and school tomorrow. Motor vehicle crashes are the leading cause of death for 15 to 20 year olds in the United States. In 2001, 3,608 drivers 15 to 20 years old were killed in motor vehicle crashes, and an additional 337,000 were injured. The low percentage of those 21 years old and older who may qualify to carry on Texas campuses is much less of a concern than student commuting to and from campus.

Rick

--You are right but it is a crazy argument.... Getting to campus is neccessary in order to get an education ( crazy automobile argument) .... carrying a gun is purely an option. I just think that with more guns available on campus that accidents will occur and hotheads and drunks will shoot a few people. How many crazy terrorist events like at Virginia Tech have happened on Texas campuses in the last 50 years that could be prevented with a person with a gun.. I remember none... the closest is Whitman at UT Tower about 1965. Students having a handgun that day would not have helped at all. How many accidents and shootings would have happened in those 50 years if students had carried guns..... don't know but it would not be zero.

---This is not about a person's right to own a gun but about a trade off of a lot more deaths due to accidents and anger on campus vs. very few saved because someone has a gun... Besides someone having one is a nearby car is safer and is often almost as effective....

--Are you proposing we raise the driving age to European standards. ???? There is a huge difference in geography, population density, and culture.... having been there a lot I can tell you mass transportation is very good there even in smaller places..... Except large cities, it is awful here. The most fatal age here is 17, or about one year after learning how to drive. At that point their confidence exceeds their abilities and they start driving recklessly. It probably would be the same if raised to 18, 19 would likely be the most fatal age.

--- We may get to find out... just remember this discussion and some of us warned against it. Ever wonder why carrying laws were put into extence in the first place and we don't do as we did 100 years ago? ....safety... with less guns quickly available.

Besides-----What would you expect to be the largest the reason for deaths for people age 15-20.... cancer, heart attacks, or strokes..?? It is almost a given that it would be some type of accident and cars are in very common use, unlike guns.

Edited May 23, 2009 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[eulesseagle]

One synopsis that has not been mentioned is "if" and "when" this gun in the hands of students is passed the inevitable will, as the sun comes up in the east, will occur. You know it will.....the government knows it will.

The government can "create a crisis," as if they have not done so in the past, to implement draconican measures on the population. What does the government fear most in the hands of the people? guns. What would the government like to take away from the people, as if we have not seen a run on guns and ammo lately......?

Government does not need a reason abolish the Second Admendment or any other constitutional gurantees. The future bloody scenes repeated 24/7 on cable will reinforce what they have been warning for decades. Since we have been warning you we now must implement a solution. Kinda like the "wag the dog" syndrome.

Kinda like the Gulf of Tonkin incident.

This is almost paramount to inviting prostitutes to a Duke lacross party and expecting "nothing" to happen.

College students, beer and guns.......a disaster waiting to happen. For those who want guarantees, special classes & etc to ensure nothing happens....lol. yea right.

[UNT90]

--You are right but it is a crazy argument.... Getting to campus is neccessary in order to get an education ( crazy automobile argument) .... carrying a gun is purely an option. I just think that with more guns available on campus that accidents will occur and hotheads and drunks will shoot a few people. How many crazy terrorist events like at Virginia Tech have happened on Texas campuses in the last 50 years that could be prevented with a person with a gun.. I remember none... the closest is Whitman at UT Tower about 1965. Students having a handgun that day would not have helped at all. How many accidents and shootings would have happened in those 50 years if students had carried guns..... don't know but it would not be zero.

---This is not about a person's right to own a gun but about a trade off of a lot more deaths due to accidents and anger on campus vs. very few saved because someone has a gun... Besides someone having one is a nearby car is safer and is often almost as effective....

--Are you proposing we raise the driving age to European standards. ???? There is a huge difference in geography, population density, and culture.... having been there a lot I can tell you mass transportation is very good there even in smaller places..... Except large cities, it is awful here. The most fatal age here is 17, or about one year after learning how to drive. At that point their confidence exceeds their abilities and they start driving recklessly. It probably would be the same if raised to 18, 19 would likely be the most fatal age.

--- We may get to find out... just remember this discussion and some of us warned against it. Ever wonder why carrying laws were put into extence in the first place and we don't do as we did 100 years ago? ....safety... with less guns quickly available.

Besides-----What would you expect to be the largest the reason for deaths for people age 15-20.... cancer, heart attacks, or strokes..?? It is almost a given that it would be some type of accident and cars are in very common use, unlike guns.

Cars are machines that kill young people. Guns are machines that kill young people. Cars kill thousands more young people a year than guns, so wouldnt it save many more lives to raise the driving age to 21? Of course it would. Simple logic.

You can tell the people on here who have abosultely no experience with firearms and have been scared by the anti-gun folks into believing thier propaganda. Do you really think a doped up, drunken, women chasing frat boy is going to do whats necessary to complete the CHL course (about $200??) and then spend another $400 for a handgun? Come on people. Think.

Funny that Bass apparently thinks that a person who completes the CHL process would be more likely to go crazy on a college campus than some who has no background screening. He seems to argue that a CHL holder would be more likely to violate MAJOR felony statutes (murder, agg assault with a deadly weapon), while someone who was intent on committing these exact violations would be detered by a minor law saying you can't carry a gun on campus. Illogical and extremely naive.

As for the police being in favor of CHL, I encourage everyone to talk to one. Not anyone of rank or a public information officer, but the cop that works your area of the city. He will tell you that your police department can not protect you and you need to do what you think is necessary to protect yourself. Police are very good at responding to and solving crimes, not so much at preventing them. Of course, if you ask your local police chief, I'm sure he will tell you what wonderful protection HE provides.

[oldguystudent]

This is an aside observation not necessarily related to this debate. I always like it when cars are brought up in an argument. Cars kill more people every year than:

Guns

Smoking

Second hand smoking

Terrorist attacks

Asbestos

Global Warming

Swine flu

Dick Cheney hunting trips

Bill Clinton croneys

Extended viewing periods of Ellen Degeneres comedy routines

I'm always curious what the fate of the automobile would be were it invented today.

Edited May 24, 2009 by oldguystudent

[UNT90]

This is an aside observation not necessarily related to this debate. I always like it when cars are brought up in an argument. Cars kill more people every year than:

Guns

Smoking

Second hand smoking

Terrorist attacks

Asbestos

Global Warming

Swine flu

Dick Cheney hunting trips

Bill Clinton croneys

Extended viewing periods of Ellen Degeneres comedy routines

I'm always curious what the fate of the automobile would be were it invented today.

Excellent point.

I think it all comes down to selfishness. No one wants to raise the driving age or outlaw autos because that would make THIER life more complicated. Same thing with alcohol, which also kills far more young people then guns ever did. Alocohol IS a drug and SHOULD be illegal. But, we like to drink it, so we just ignore whatever facts may be present and pull some wild stuff out of our rears in an attempt to defend our own bad habits (yes, I drink, and this weekend, quite heavily).

Same thing with guns. They used to be much more a part of our culture than they are now and there is a focused attempt to remove them completely from our culture, which I believe is quite dangerous. Thing is, guns are not a part of a lot of people's everyday life anymore, so why not just jump on the popular bandwagon and sho how much you care about something that really doesn't affect you. Well, at least until you get car jacked or mugged.

Critical thought be damned.

[Rudy]

Of course, if you ask your local police chief, I'm sure he will tell you what wonderful protection HE provides.

Ain't that the truth. My new "chief" is in love with himself.

[Green Guy Bass]

You can tell the people on here who have abosultely no experience with firearms and have been scared by the anti-gun folks into believing thier propaganda. Do you really think a doped up, drunken, women chasing frat boy is going to do whats necessary to complete the CHL course (about $200??) and then spend another $400 for a handgun? Come on people. Think.

Funny that Bass apparently thinks that a person who completes the CHL process would be more likely to go crazy on a college campus than some who has no background screening. He seems to argue that a CHL holder would be more likely to violate MAJOR felony statutes (murder, agg assault with a deadly weapon), while someone who was intent on committing these exact violations would be detered by a minor law saying you can't carry a gun on campus. Illogical and extremely naive.

First, I am not saying your typical person with CHL will open fire on a college campus. I never once said that so lets not make things up to try and make me sound like the asshole here. Second, your druken frat boy doesn't always pay for things himself.

If you and the rest of the pro-gun people here are fine with even the chance of an immature idiot having the option to carry a gun around other immature idiots - then by all means have your law and your guns. Hopefully Charleton Heston looks down on you and smiles. The rest of us are not going to sit around and be happy that kids might be packing when they attend class. Too scary of a reality to consider to be quite honest with you.

[FirefightnRick]

The rest of us are not going to sit around and be happy that kids might be packing when they attend class.

Again, the average age of an NT student is 22, 18% are above the age of 25, and you must be at least 21 to obtain a CHL.

Rick

[Green Guy Bass]

Again, the average age of an NT student is 22, 18% are above the age of 25, and you must be at least 21 to obtain a CHL.

Rick

Sorry I don't consider your typical 21 or 22 year old as a responsible adult. I have attended class more recently than some here, and I sure as hell didn't want some of my class mates carrying a gun, legal or not.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

Excellent point.

I think it all comes down to selfishness. No one wants to raise the driving age or outlaw autos because that would make THIER life more complicated. Same thing with alcohol, which also kills far more young people then guns ever did. Alocohol IS a drug and SHOULD be illegal. But, we like to drink it, so we just ignore whatever facts may be present and pull some wild stuff out of our rears in an attempt to defend our own bad habits (yes, I drink, and this weekend, quite heavily).

Same thing with guns. They used to be much more a part of our culture than they are now and there is a focused attempt to remove them completely from our culture, which I believe is quite dangerous. Thing is, guns are not a part of a lot of people's everyday life anymore, so why not just jump on the popular bandwagon and sho how much you care about something that really doesn't affect you. Well, at least until you get car jacked or mugged.

Critical thought be damned.

---The extreme right wingers keep claiming there is a big effort to ban all guns... That is BS. There is an effort by many to ban these assault weapons and for "big city" people want to have controls on some others. Granted there are a few on the EXTREME left would ban guns but they are as nutty as those who think there is a big effort to ban them. Guns used for hunting (assault guns aren't) and normal pistols are not even suggested by anyone to be banned. Those of us in semi rural areas who have rural property understand guns are needed and more tools than toys.

---As for gun controls, there pretty much has always been some controls in place...(at least the past 100 years). You just can't carry anything anywhere and certain ones are just banned period. Shotguns with extremely short barrells for example. Of course gun companies and the NRA love to talk this and get people all excited that they are going to be banned... it gets people scared and they go buy more guns and weapons....good for business.. Some people try to claim one political party is more gun friendly than the other..... that is sort of crazy too. It is more about where that politician lives..not their party... big city or small town or rural area...... not which party they are members of. Granted at the moment, Big city politicans tend to members of one party so it appear that party is more anti-gun... In general it just isn't true....it is a function of their location..

--- Locally a college age person was shot (his car was) about 50 times with an assault weapon at a bar parking lot last winter. I can't even think of a situation in the news that a regular person needed or used an assault weapon to defend himself. I know a lot of situations of drive-bys shooting up a house or location with one. . It is a bad trade-off.

--- As one person stated..... youth, beer, and a gun .... is a bad mix.

Edited May 25, 2009 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[UNTFan23]

--- Locally a college age person was shot (his car was) about 50 times with an assault weapon at a bar parking lot last winter. I can't even think of a situation in the news that a regular person needed or used an assault weapon to defend himself. I know a lot of situations of drive-bys shooting up a house or location with one. . It is a bad trade-off.

I like how you used a crime against someone as a reason to ban assault weapon.

I'm rather curious to find out if the guns used in the aforementioned crimes were acquired lawfully or not. If the guns were acquired illegally, then it illustrates that a ban would not be effective at all in preventing such crimes as outlined above.

Edited May 25, 2009 by UNTFan23

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

I like how you used a crime against someone as a reason to ban assault weapon.

I'm rather curious to find out if the guns used in the aforementioned crimes were acquired lawfully or not. If the guns were acquired illegally, then it illustrates that a ban would not be effective at all in preventing such crimes as outlined above.

----It would not have happened if they had not been legal to buy. It was not acquired illegally. It was not used to defend himself either. As I am saying ... a lot more are used by criminals than people to defend themselves. Especially in drive-bys. No defense against those. Even the police are often outgunned.

The problem now is there are so many... and have become easy to obtain... legally or illegally. The only way to half control them now is not sell ammo to them and even that is a problem since some fits other non-assault guns. Let me guess you live in a large town and have little or no contact with rural America... Rural people have no use for them as a general rule. Just city folks seem to like them for what ever reason. No hunting use for them either. They are designed to only shoot people. ( that and to feed the ego of the powerless than they now have power)

[UNT90]

First, I am not saying your typical person with CHL will open fire on a college campus. I never once said that so lets not make things up to try and make me sound like the asshole here. Second, your druken frat boy doesn't always pay for things himself.

If you and the rest of the pro-gun people here are fine with even the chance of an immature idiot having the option to carry a gun around other immature idiots - then by all means have your law and your guns. Hopefully Charleton Heston looks down on you and smiles. The rest of us are not going to sit around and be happy that kids might be packing when they attend class. Too scary of a reality to consider to be quite honest with you.

So to get this straight, your ok with these same poeple carrying them off campus, just not on campus? How much time do you spend on campus? So, this really doesn't affect you, right? Also, I would assume that college campuses make up 1/1,000,000,000,000,000,000 of the land mass of the State of Texas (Intentional overstatement), so while your ok (bad term, tolerate) the carrying of handguns by these people in the huge area that is not a college campus, you won't tolerate on campus? A place you never go? And what will suddenlychange these people's pattern of behavior once they step foot on a college campus? I know the facts about CHL holders and lack of violent incidents has been posted before, so what will magically change them?

Also, the point about the frat boy was that he would have no interest in a CHL, as he would be too busy chasing tail and drinking to even give it a thought.

[Green Guy Bass]

So to get this straight, your ok with these same poeple carrying them off campus, just not on campus? How much time do you spend on campus? So, this really doesn't affect you, right? Also, I would assume that college campuses make up 1/1,000,000,000,000,000,000 of the land mass of the State of Texas (Intentional overstatement), so while your ok (bad term, tolerate) the carrying of handguns by these people in the huge area that is not a college campus, you won't tolerate on campus? A place you never go? And what will suddenlychange these people's pattern of behavior once they step foot on a college campus? I know the facts about CHL holders and lack of violent incidents has been posted before, so what will magically change them?

Also, the point about the frat boy was that he would have no interest in a CHL, as he would be too busy chasing tail and drinking to even give it a thought.

A- Graduated in '05, but while I attend our great school I was on campus about 65-75% of the time.

B- Va Tech happened and it will probably happen again. (making it easier for kids like that to get weapons is just moronic)

C- I don't want my kids in a place where it's okay to have a gun. School is school, there is NO place for weapons. End of discussion. Are you so gun-crazy that you truly want guns on a college campus??

And to your claim about me being okay that people can carry weapons that can kill someone off campus....I am not crazy that so many people are allowed to freely have a gun, just because they passed a test and a safety course. Call me a liberal, but I do think it should be a helluva lot tougher to obtain a weapon.

Edited May 26, 2009 by Green Guy Bass

[oldguystudent]

Call me a liberal

Nah, I'm gonna' go with pinko Stalin loving treasonous hippie.

[FirefightnRick]

I do think it should be a helluva lot tougher to obtain a weapon.

Maybe it should be tougher, legally? As of right now it's not as easy as it used to be...legally. But it's even easier to obtain a drivers license and simply look at the results in death on the road with the college age people over the years.

Since Harry started this website how many students has North Texas lost from road fatalities? You probably couldn't count them all. Countless were on the road to and from campus. Off the top of my head there were the 4 students coming back from New Orleans, 6 music majors headed to Abilene for some event who were killed in a cross over here in Parker County 3 or 4 years ago, Andrew Smith in '04, the female track student who died down the street from my fire station in east Fort Worth, the girl in Dallas last December who was going to her job at Hooters when the 18 Wheeler rolled on top of her from a bridge overpass above.

Not all of these tragedy's were the result of irresponsibility. But some were. Drivers licenses are handed out like candy in this country with devastating results and the negative affect of this far outweighs the results of guns being carried legally on campus or anywhere else a CHL holder is allowed to carry.

An interesting note: In 2008 there were 73,090 CHL licenses issued in the state of Texas and only 348 revoked..

Rick

[Green Guy Bass]

Maybe it should be tougher, legally? As of right now it's not as easy as it used to be...legally. But it's even easier to obtain a drivers license and simply look at the results in death on the road with the college age people over the years.

Since Harry started this website how many students has North Texas lost from road fatalities? You probably couldn't count them all. Countless were on the road to and from campus. Off the top of my head there were the 4 students coming back from New Orleans, 6 music majors headed to Abilene for some event who were killed in a cross over here in Parker County 3 or 4 years ago, Andrew Smith in '04, the female track student who died down the street from my fire station in east Fort Worth, the girl in Dallas last December who was going to her job at Hooters when the 18 Wheeler rolled on top of her from a bridge overpass above.

Not all of these tragedy's were the result of irresponsibility. But some were. Drivers licenses are handed out like candy in this country with devastating results and the negative affect of this far outweighs the results of guns being carried legally on campus or anywhere else a CHL holder is allowed to carry.

An interesting note: In 2008 there were 73,090 CHL licenses issued in the state of Texas and only 348 revoked..

Rick

As much as I completely agree with everything you have said here, driving is still a necessity in this day and age. One can get by without owning and carrying a gun. Should 16 year olds be able to get a DL as easily as they do? No. It's easier to defend the use of apples when you compare the ill effects of oranges.

[UNT90]

A- Graduated in '05, but while I attend our great school I was on campus about 65-75% of the time.

B- Va Tech happened and it will probably happen again. (making it easier for kids like that to get weapons is just moronic)

C- I don't want my kids in a place where it's okay to have a gun. School is school, there is NO place for weapons. End of discussion. Are you so gun-crazy that you truly want guns on a college campus??

And to your claim about me being okay that people can carry weapons that can kill someone off campus....I am not crazy that so many people are allowed to freely have a gun, just because they passed a test and a safety course. Call me a liberal, but I do think it should be a helluva lot tougher to obtain a weapon.

A) But your not anymore, and your kids won't be for 15 plus years, I assume.

B - Yes, Va. Tech happened. And maybe if the first class that nut entered, there would have been someone with a CHL, it wouldn't have happened. These nuts COUNT ON the fact that everyone will be unarmed and they will meet no resistance. Va. Tech is the whole reason this is being considered.

C) So you basically don't want your kids in any public place. Because it is already legal to carry. No shopping malls. No movie theaters. They are going to love you when they are teens!

And lastly, I guess you would feel more safe if only criminals carried guns, because, by definition, they are criminals, therefore they don't obey laws telling them not to carry guns.. And yes, it does make you a liberal, but you are young, there is still hope.

Edited May 26, 2009 by UNT90

[UNT90]

No. It's easier to defend the use of apples when you compare the ill effects of oranges.

Please explain how omparing two mechanical devices is apples and oranges. Can't wait.