College Students In Texas To Carry Guns. (probably)

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

---The idiot Texas Senate has approved a bill (first vote 20-10) to allow college student to carry guns on campus. If it gets final approval it is a given that Perry will sign it since he proposed it some time ago. How long will it be until some drunk, dopped-up, or hot-headed kid shoots someone in his dorm or on campus. I know they undergo background checks but people that age rarely have a criminal history ....yet..... The losses will be a lot worse than the gains. Private colleges can opt out of this law and forbid them.

---I have no problem them with them kept in a car but not carried. I also knew personally a lady that dropped hers and it fired and killed her. This is a bad deal. I teach on a college campus and have never feared a problem... The chance of an accident or a drunk/dopped up hothead is much more likely than some nut like at Virginia Tech showing up. . Students having a gun in a car might be helpful if such incident occured. That I have no problem with. I am far from an anti-gun person but this is crazy. (my oppinion)

--I am surprised no one has posted this.

[hickoryhouse]

Guns are good

Guns on college campus is bad....

I rememb er how I was in college, far from a doped up hot head but still I do not think I was responsible enough to handle the power that a firearm provides. I remeber Nickel Natties at the Side Bar and when you combine that with weapons that are more powerful than darts you are in trouble...

[UNTflyer]

---The idiot Texas Senate has approved a bill (first vote 20-10) to allow college students who have completed a certified CHL course and passed a background check to carry guns on campus exercise their right as Texas citizens to carry a concealed weapon.

There you go.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

--Obviously you did not live with some of the morons I had in my dorm.... they could have passed a background check but made a lot of bad decisions.

--- I also have a problem with just safety... The lady I knew just dropped hers and it entered below her belt and out her neck. (end of her life) Concealed guns are not as secure as those exposed in a holster. I am a semi-rural person and have handled them forever. Some people are total idiots when handling a gun....safety course or not ... then adding a few drinks or a bad temper really compounds the problem.

--I have no problem with one kept in a car.

Edited May 21, 2009 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[hickoryhouse]

Obviously background checks and classes make people responsible, especially 18-22 year olds who, in my experience, are more concerned about chasing tail and parties than they are about responsible behavior and studying.

I am not saying that those people don't exist, but to take page from the artist playbook, consider your audience.... College students, stereotypically, are not responsible enough to carry. If they want to exercise their right to own weapons, then go ahead, just keep it off the campus.

[UNTflyer]

Considering most of the men and women who are fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan are college-aged, I disagree with the the premise that they are not responsible enough.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

Considering most of the men and women who are fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan are college-aged, I disagree with the the premise that they are not responsible enough.

---Totally different environment... besides today's army is not just filled with college age kids (as you claim) which the Viet Nam era army was (avg. age of PFC was 19). The WWII one wasn't either, the average PFC in WWII was 26 which means a lot were 30+ considering 18 was pretty much the youngest age. Lower ages would mean even more older ones to get that average. .

---You must be completely isolated from todays college age people and their lifestyle. .

[UNTflyer]

They have the right to carry, being 21. You seem to think that crossing the boundary of a campus makes them less responsible.

[oldguystudent]

Do you have be 21 for a CHL? I know UNTFlyer's on campus every day and so am I. Being as objective as I can be, and trying really hard to suppress my "Those derned kids and their fancy electronic gadgets!" attitude, I'm going to say that I observe 21-year-old students to be significantly more mature and responsible than 18-year-old students. They've kinda' been there, done that on the over the top binge drinking, they're more prone to do their homework because they're tired of school and ready to get the hell out, and they're more likely to do their drinking on Fry St which is actually off campus and replete with its own rules and regulations.

If I really think about it, a doped up, drunk student is more likely to go on a crazy rampage in the residence hall than a classroom. It's a long walk from Kerr to Curry man, and I'm about to get to level 6 on Crazy Mario Poofy Fluffers! On campus itself, I have so far smelled booze on students twice. Both were in the morning, and both were obviously hung over and unwashed from the previous night's proclivities. I'm sure their heads were pounding a little to hard to be brandishing a weapon.

I did have a couple classes this semester that were mostly freshman, and all I can say about that is I'm amazed that they're even able to speak. I mean wow. Was I like that at 18? Probably, but wow.

[hickoryhouse]

They have the right to carry, being 21. You seem to think that crossing the boundary of a campus makes them less responsible.

No crossing the oboundry does not make them less responsible, it is the drinking, smoking weed, partying and random sex that makes them less responsible. I don't know about your college experience but I was in no way responsible enough to be packing heat when I was at UNT, wether I was on campus or not. I recognize the right of the students to carry based upon the 2nd amendment and I own several weapons, but back then... probably not a good idea.

Once again if the student wants to have a weapon at his place of residence then go for it, I just don't want jonny Sigma (greek letter greek letter) letter jacket, and any other stereotype you can think of, walking into Riprocks packing, have an extra beverage and get pissed off. That frightens me based upon my own experience. I know that is a possibility anywhere else as well, but the point is to minimize the risk without getting rid of the right. If saying that a college campus is an off limits area for someone to be carrying a 9mm in their pants, and that will minimize the risk of stupid and immature people doing stupid and immature things that have real consequences, I am ok with that.

[oldguystudent]

a college campus is an off limits area for someone to be carrying a 9mm in their pants

As I recall it, trouser cannons were not only encouraged when I was in college, but a point of boasting for most male students.

[UNTflyer]

Once again if the student wants to have a weapon at his place of residence then go for it, I just don't want jonny Sigma (greek letter greek letter) letter jacket, and any other stereotype you can think of, walking into Riprocks packing

Riprocks is a bar and it is illegal to carry in a bar.

[hickoryhouse]

Riprocks is a bar and it is illegal to carry in a bar.

Semantics, and a very easy way to get around the point I was making.

[UNTflyer]

Semantics, and a very easy way to get around the point I was making.

It's not a semantic argument. You said: "I just don't want jonny Sigma (greek letter greek letter) letter jacket, and any other stereotype you can think of, walking into Riprocks packing, have an extra beverage and get pissed off."

Carrying a gun into a bar when you have a CHL is a very serious offense, whether you brandish it or not. And anyone with a CHL knows that the very act is a felony.

The state already trusts individuals at this age with the awesome responsibility of carrying a concealed gun in most public places, college students or not. Your point is that BECAUSE they are college students, they are less responsible and therefore might take a gun into Riprocks or do something else that is foolish. That's absurd.

In fact, if I had to choose between a college student carrying a gun on campus vs. a high school drop out wandering around my neighborhood carrying a gun, I think the choice is clear. College students are better educated, and live under academic deadlines, most of them working a job to do so. They demonstrate on a daily basis the kind of responsibilities they can handle.

[Boomer23]

From my understanding, even if this passes, CHL holders will be allowed to carry on campus, but the law does allow the freedom of the dorms to choose if guns are or are not allowed inside. North Texas will most likely ban guns in dorms, same standards that bars already have.

[Green Guy Bass]

I am struggling to see how this is a good idea. One can say that this will prevent acts like Columbine and VaTech, but lets be real here. Anyone that wants a gun can get a gun and use it on an open campus....so now we are making it legal for some nut-job to have a weapon that can kill a fellow student or a faculty member. I don't care how responsible 99.99% of liscensed individuals are. It only takes one nut-bag to go off the deep end and create a major tragedy. Also, lets not underestimate the sheer idiocy and questionable judgement of kids from 18-24. If one person is killed because of this stupid law, then this is one of the worst laws in the history of our great state.

[Mean Green 93-98]

If one person is killed because of this stupid law, then this is one of the worst laws in the history of our great state.

What would you say then if one life is saved because of this stupid law?

[Green Guy Bass]

What would you say then if one life is saved because of this stupid law?

That doesn't seem like a good argument.

[Rudy]

---I have no problem them with them kept in a car but not carried. I also knew personally a lady that dropped hers and it fired and killed her. This is a bad deal. I teach on a college campus and have never feared a problem... The chance of an accident or a drunk/dopped up hothead is much more likely than some nut like at Virginia Tech showing up. . Students having a gun in a car might be helpful if such incident occured. That I have no problem with. I am far from an anti-gun person but this is crazy. (my oppinion)

Most newer pistols, and semi-automatics have safety measures built in to prevent firing if the weapon is dropped. The amount of force required to depress the trigger is usually too great to fire by simply dropping it. This problem is usually an issue if an exposed hammer is cocked when the weapon is dropped.

--Obviously you did not live with some of the morons I had in my dorm.... they could have passed a background check but made a lot of bad decisions.

--- I also have a problem with just safety... The lady I knew just dropped hers and it entered below her belt and out her neck. (end of her life) Concealed guns are not as secure as those exposed in a holster. I am a semi-rural person and have handled them forever. Some people are total idiots when handling a gun....safety course or not ... then adding a few drinks or a bad temper really compounds the problem.

You must be 21 years old to purchase, or carry a handgun. 18 year olds can be armed security guards, however, they have to have someone who is 21 purchase the firearm and give it to them. No CHL licenses are issued to anyone under 21.

As for the securing them, most inside the pants holsters are secure. If they are just tucked into your pants or have a clip that attaches to the gun and holds the weapon on your waist, that is not secure. Inside the pant holsters fully close around the weapon and clip to the pants. They are secure. it is what many officers use off duty and what many CHL holders use.

Riprocks is a bar and it is illegal to carry in a bar.

Anyplace that makes 51% of its money from alchol sales, it is illegal to carry a firearm inside. Anyplace where it is illegal to carry a firearm inside has a 30.06 notice poseted by its entrance.

Carrying a gun into a bar when you have a CHL is a very serious offense, whether you brandish it or not. And anyone with a CHL knows that the very act is a felony.

During CHL training, almost half of the time spent in class is on where you CAN NOT carry, and the consequences of violating the law. Contrary to popular belief on this board, CHL holders take their responsibility VERY seriously. I have had CHL holders display their licenses even if they are not carrying or they are expired and not carrying. That is how serious they take this.

I am struggling to see how this is a good idea.

Of course you dont. I think its pretty clear you are against firearms.

What would you say then if one life is saved because of this stupid law?

He wouldnt say anything.

[oldguystudent]

It actually surprises me that a police officer would be in support of an armed population. Seems counter-intuitive to me.

[Mean Green 93-98]

That doesn't seem like a good argument.

Why not? If the loss of one life by virtue of this law causes it to be the worst law in the history of Texas, would not the saving of one life by it make it one of the best? Or is it just the worst law in the history of Texas whatever happens, so your scenario was meaningless?

[Rudy]

Why? I, and many others, believe it is the right of every citizen to protect what is theirs. if you break into someones house, or try to rob them, they have every right to defend their property, or even the life of themself or a third party. No matter how good a police officer's response time is, a victim may have to defend themself. The check and balances for one to obtain a firearm or a CHL is not perfect, but it is very extensive. Those who are legally carrying weapons understand the responsibility and take it very seriously.

Not to mention, it is proven that criminals prefer unarmed civilians. If a criminal knows or even thinks that a victim is armed, they will usually try to ic a different taget. They dont want to die. What is the point of stealing or hurting someone for fun, if you are dead?

[FirefightnRick]

http://www.collegeportraits.org/TX/UNT/characteristics

The average age of college students at North Texas is 22 years old. 18% are over 25 years old.

What I find interesting is how so many here are so distraught over 21 year old and older adults legally(CHL licensed) carrying firearms yet every one of you will sleep just fine tonight knowing that countless thousands of 16 year olds will be given free reign to run around responsibly and irresponsibly in 3,000lb plus automobiles tomorrow, driving in and around all of you AND your families as you commute to work and school tomorrow. Motor vehicle crashes are the leading cause of death for 15 to 20 year olds in the United States. In 2001, 3,608 drivers 15 to 20 years old were killed in motor vehicle crashes, and an additional 337,000 were injured. The low percentage of those 21 years old and older who may qualify to carry on Texas campuses is much less of a concern than student commuting to and from campus.

Rick

[oldguystudent]

Why? I, and many others, believe it is the right of every citizen to protect what is theirs. if you break into someones house, or try to rob them, they have every right to defend their property, or even the life of themself or a third party. No matter how good a police officer's response time is, a victim may have to defend themself. The check and balances for one to obtain a firearm or a CHL is not perfect, but it is very extensive. Those who are legally carrying weapons understand the responsibility and take it very seriously.

Not to mention, it is proven that criminals prefer unarmed civilians. If a criminal knows or even thinks that a victim is armed, they will usually try to ic a different taget. They dont want to die. What is the point of stealing or hurting someone for fun, if you are dead?

I was more thinking that if you're an officer trying to control an unruly situation, I find it hard to imagine that you'd want people around you being armed. It's not a matter of pro/anti gun, but rather thinking from a tactical standpoint.

[Rudy]

I was more thinking that if you're an officer trying to control an unruly situation, I find it hard to imagine that you'd want people around you being armed. It's not a matter of pro/anti gun, but rather thinking from a tactical standpoint.

Well that is a concern, yes. However, myself and others have tried to make many on the board understand that to qualify for a CHL, they dont just say, "Here are the rules, there is the range, congrats, here is your CHL." A majority of the class, is the law pertaining to carrying a firearm, where you can't carry, how to interact with the police, the consequences of using your firearm. They are taught that the moment an officer approaches you, you state you have a CHL and wether you have your weapon on you. You automatically hand your CHL to the officer with your DL, usually on top, and you keep your hands visible. They understand that if they do have to use their weapon, especially in public, you are probably going to jail, even if the grand jury wont indict, and you probably won't get your gun back. In regards to your scenario, they also understand that if the police are there, let them control the situation, keep your gun out of sight. And if you do decide to brandish it, you will be held at gunpoint by the police. Also even though you pass the class, you still have to send off to the state for your background check, and more money, then they will send you your CHL.

Also, its why I wont even do anything to assist or backup an officer when I am off duty until my badge is displayed around my neck, unless a life is immediately at stake.

Edited May 22, 2009 by Rudy