How Obamacare Will Affect Your Doctor.

UNTflyer · May 13, 2009

Is this acceptable collateral damage for the profit motive?

No, but it is an not a problem that justifies national health care. I would rather spend an extra $500 million a year insuring these children over the alternative of nationalizing 1/7 of the economy.

UNTflyer · May 13, 2009

Kaiser Commission? As in Kaiser the massive HMO known for it's stalwart gatekeeper system in health care denial?

The Kaiser Family Foundation

"The Kaiser Family Foundation is not associated with Kaiser Permanente or Kaiser Industries."

oldguystudent · May 13, 2009

The Kaiser Family Foundation
"The Kaiser Family Foundation is not associated with Kaiser Permanente or Kaiser Industries."

OK. Wasn't sure about that one. As to spending an extra $500 million for the uninsured children that need it as opposed to full-blown national health care, I do believe that if you and I were the people in control, but on opposing sides, we'd be awfully close to an agreement.

UNTflyer · May 13, 2009

OK. Wasn't sure about that one. As to spending an extra $500 million for the uninsured children that need it as opposed to full-blown national health care, I do believe that if you and I were the people in control, but on opposing sides, we'd be awfully close to an agreement.

It would be to the benefit of the nation to elect us in 2012.

The Fake Lonnie Finch · May 13, 2009

I don't pretend to understand all (or any for that matter) of the complexities of the Insurance industry. But I do know that the vast majority of people who don't have insurance coverage are children. And I'm sick to death of hearing children being lumped into the broad (and convenient) catagory of the "lazy" and "irresponsible".

Take that up with their beer-drinking, pot and cigarette smoking parent (or, in rare cases parents) who stand around in 7-11 buying scratch off ticket after scratch off ticket. State and federal programs already exist to fill these gaps.

If you really want to go down the road here, let's discuss what the real need is - and, that is, the need to take kids away from parents who refuse to be parents. Take the kids away and give them to families who want kids who are out there battling to adopt. There are people out there who would take care of a child properly; and, who would do so with great joy.

But, what really happens to those poor kids you talk about? They're stuck in a bureaucratic system that subsidizes their parent's rent, food, and health care. In exchange for all of our hard earned tax dollars, they show their thanks by ignoring their children's needs for their own pathetic addictions - which the government will also use our tax dollars to try to cure.

Screw it. Give the kids a chance. Take them away and put them with the responsible families out there who would joyfully take them on.

But, to sit around and pretend that corporate or health care greed drives this thing is insanely dangerous. Universal health care is simply the final punchline to the joke begun way back in the 60s with the "War On Poverty." Those kids in poverty won't be any better off with universal health care than they are under the current plethora of government programs that already exist for them. It's just another layer of crap for their filching parents' to feed off of - and we pay for it.

Edited May 13, 2009 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

oldguystudent · May 13, 2009

Screw it. Give the kids a chance. Take them away and put them with the responsible families out there who would joyfully take them on.

Agreed completely in theory, but where are all these responsible families who would joyfully take them on? This has been a big concern of mine on a couple of hot political fronts. When the existing and future foster care rolls are completely empty, we will be in complete agreement and can stand around the fire holding hands, singing kumbaya, and roasting celebratory marshmallows.

I know one family who has taken in and adopted 5 "special needs" kids. The special needs being defined as either mental deficiency or severe maltreatment from neglectful parents. I hold those parents up to be complete and utter saints -- models of what society should be. I also freely admit that I am not nearly as saintly as they are. I've thought long and hard about joining their ranks, and the impact it would have on my own kid and already shaky domestic situation would be too great. I therefore cannot judge others who choose not to bring in these kids, but I can still point to the reality that there are simply not enough willing and able households to take them all in.

I also fear where the line gets drawn for removing kids from their parents. I think I've mentioned on here before an infamous case in Frisco where a resident called CPS on their neighbor because they saw beer cans in the trash. If you fear a nanny state, this is about as literal as it gets.

As for existing foster care, it's better than nothing, but ferrying kids around from one house to another with no sense of home or stable future really messes with those kids' heads in adulthood.

UNTflyer · May 13, 2009

We can't ignore the fact that many families who can afford health care make bad choices, spending money on frivolous luxuries while at the same time crying about the cost of health insurance. For example...

May 13 (Bloomberg) -- Brooke and Doug Sterenberg booked a seven-day, $2,800 cruise to the Bahamas on Carnival Corp.’s ship the Conquest, with its three-deck-high Twister water slide. It’s the family’s reward for Doug keeping his job.

“He made it through the first round of layoffs” at the Houston unit of bankrupt chemicals maker LyondellBasell Industries AF SCA, said Brooke, a 37-year-old mother of two. “We feel like we can’t control what’s going to happen in the future. No matter what, our family deserves a week away.”

So, this family who is uncertain about what the future holds, and seems pretty certain that the prospect of a layoff is still lurking for their breadwinner, decides to take a $2800 vacation (on which they will certainly spend another $1000).

untbowler · May 13, 2009

Being in the middle right now of aodpting an elementary aged child, the process is long and I am going through the state. I think part of the problem is the red tape and another issue is that it is fashinable to go overseas to adopt while there are thousands of kids in our own backyard who need homes.

I hope it gets better, but not optimistic. This also will probably not be the only child we adopt in the end, but it is a start.

KRAM1 · May 13, 2009

Agreed completely in theory, but where are all these responsible families who would joyfully take them on? This has been a big concern of mine on a couple of hot political fronts. When the existing and future foster care rolls are completely empty, we will be in complete agreement and can stand around the fire holding hands, singing kumbaya, and roasting celebratory marshmallows.
I know one family who has taken in and adopted 5 "special needs" kids. The special needs being defined as either mental deficiency or severe maltreatment from neglectful parents. I hold those parents up to be complete and utter saints -- models of what society should be. I also freely admit that I am not nearly as saintly as they are. I've thought long and hard about joining their ranks, and the impact it would have on my own kid and already shaky domestic situation would be too great. I therefore cannot judge others who choose not to bring in these kids, but I can still point to the reality that there are simply not enough willing and able households to take them all in.
I also fear where the line gets drawn for removing kids from their parents. I think I've mentioned on here before an infamous case in Frisco where a resident called CPS on their neighbor because they saw beer cans in the trash. If you fear a nanny state, this is about as literal as it gets.
As for existing foster care, it's better than nothing, but ferrying kids around from one house to another with no sense of home or stable future really messes with those kids' heads in adulthood.

Having adopted a "special needs child" myself, I can tell you that the social security system can be of some help. My wife had adopted two kids (one with special needs) prior to our marriage...she did receive some help from the MHMR folks and social security. But, please believe me...I am not saying you can get full medical/health care for special needs kids from these agencies. We have two "adopted kiddos...(fully grown now) and one we had the "regular way", I can tell you...no difference. My wife had the two by herslf for six years before we got married...not that is a saint in my book...you take in two foster kids (one with special needs) as a single parent and handle it all completely by yourself for six years while you are in your mid-late 20's! WOW....so, yep, we have a bit of experience here and we are "none the worse for wear" either. The reports of the lack of healthcare for kids is a bit overblown in my opinion. We all can understand the need to take care of those kids...as a sociaety it is the right thing to do...but, to say there is no healthcare available is a myth. No emergency county hospital emergency room can turn them away, and there are other clinics and health-care facilities willing to help. BUT, you have to have parents sober and intelligent enough (and legal enough) to work to find the care available. Is it perfect...nope...can it be better...yep...BUT you do not implement a socialized system of medical care for this reason...or any reason for that matter in my book!

oldguystudent...may god bless that familiy that took in five kids! You know, if all these idiot movie stars and other celebs would adopt kids from the US we might have a few less kids here needing care or going without care. Oh, that's right...you get more headlines by adopting a kid from Africa or someplace. Sorry, I lost my head there for a moment!

oldguystudent · May 13, 2009

You're a good man KRAM. And here's a combination of religion and small government that I can get behind:

One Church, One Child is a national adoption education and recruitment project founded in 1980 by Father George Clements, a black Chicago priest who became the first priest in the U.S. to adopt a child. There are now 31 chapters operating in 31 states. Each chapter consists of a network of local churches that seek and refer prospective adoptive parents from their congregations and the community to local government social services, which has children available for adoption.

When this program began, the intent was to get one adopted child per congregation. They pretty much cleared out the foster care rolls in Chicago.

KRAM1 · May 13, 2009

You're a good man KRAM. And here's a combination of religion and small government that I can get behind:
When this program began, the intent was to get one adopted child per congregation. They pretty much cleared out the foster care rolls in Chicago.

WOW...super program. I did not know about this program. I guess the question is why not? You certainly hear about the Modonna's of the world and the Angelina's heading to some far corner of the world to adopt a kid. Plenty of kids here in the US need adopting. This is a great program. I'll look into it and see if I can't learn a bit more about it and its success. Thanks for sharing.

untbowler · May 13, 2009

WOW...super program. I did not know about this program. I guess the question is why not? You certainly hear about the Modonna's of the world and the Angelina's heading to some far corner of the world to adopt a kid. Plenty of kids here in the US need adopting. This is a great program. I'll look into it and see if I can't learn a bit more about it and its success. Thanks for sharing.

My wife is working on getting a church organized Adoption group put into place in Faulkner County, C.A.L.L., which will greatly speed up the foster and adoption process as well as adding many new foster families for the kids that greatly need them during their transition time. This the area that the Gov't should allow the churches to do their work, because the churches will take care of those who come to them or that they know about.