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[UNT90]

I can certainly agree with everything you've said here. I think the question is, do the pluses you mentioned outweigh the minuses? I guess we're on schedule to find out over the next couple of years. I'd like to know if there have been any studies using objective performance measures for either. I think that overall, this comes down to a traditional (HS) vs nontraditional (JC) approach to recruiting players, and that there's a generally more favorable view of JC players now than in the past.

We hit the JUCO trail because Dodge needs to win now, otherwise we would have a lot more freshmen here this year. It's about football, not an academic approach. JUCOs are a much bigger risk, on and off the field. Everyone has to be treated on a case by case basis, but as a lower tier D1A school, we are only going to get the risky JUCOs (unless we take the ones with non-D1A talent). It's just a reality right now that we can't even beat out the Troy Sts. of the world for JUCO talent, so we have to take chances.

Really, what does Dodge have to lose? If he does't recruit the JUCOs this year and attempt to improve the talent, he maybe wins a game and gets fired, so why would he care about the APR score when he may not even be here. He can always worry about the APR when he is sue he is employed.

[NT03]

TeaM Shirt of 2009 :

[Green Guy Bass]

Would somebody please post some good news? Other than the student athletic fee vote, it has now been years since I have seen any around here.

The Rangers are alone in 1st place in the AL West, winners of 5 straight. Pow.

[NT03]

Would somebody please post some good news? Other than the student athletic fee vote, it has now been years since I have seen any around here.

I heard todd todge just saved some money on his car insurance by switching to geico

[Green Guy Bass]

I heard todd todge just saved some money on his car insurance by switching to geico

Edited May 7, 2009 by Green Guy Bass

[eulessismore]

Nobody from the UNT football team has been accused of running a dogfighting operation.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

The issues raised here are too far reaching to simply blame Todd Dodge. He was only responsible for one of the four classes figured into the score - although that class is ever-shrinking as we saw again this week. The one constant between the Darrell Dickey and Todd Dodge eras is the leadership of the athletic department. But, because we are doing well in the sports no one watches and which never hope to gain a dime for the department, criticism of the man in charge is off limits.

Some posters will blame the players. This, of course, is stupid because athletes are often let in under less stringent standards than the general student population. So, in many cases, they weren't academically prepared. Athletic departments look past this academic readiness issue, of course, because they believe in the upside of the gamble. It's part of the con game of college athletics - we pretend that because you can play a sport, you can also pass college level classes. We lower the bar, and if you become a superstar, we look like geniuses.

So, across the country, North Texas included, there are these special academic programs, tutors, and watered-down degree programs designed to help these kids get by. But, the bottom line is simple: if a kid has no study skills by the time he or she is 18 or 19 years old, those skills are not going to magically appear overnight. And, if he or she doesn't see the value of it, no amount of "mentoring" or "tutoring" will change it.

At our alma mater, this is compounded even moreso by the fact that we aren't getting the top athletes in the classroom or on the field. Because of our constant and long term disarray in the adminstration, Board, and athletic department regarding what to actually do with the football program (fund and support it fully or not?), we are reduced to taking flyers on coaches, who then must take flyers on many players

In the end, there's no one to fire. The people at the top pf the food chain in Denton wouldn't hire quality replacements anyway. They never have. As alumni, we just simply live with the excuses we've come to know and despise pretty much from the day we set foot on campus. Wherever it is you're going, Go Mean Green...because we don't know, and we know you don't know. But, Go nonetheless.

[oldguystudent]

After exhaustive testing, the entire team has been certified 100% rash free!

[oldschoollefty]

Would somebody please post some good news? Other than the student athletic fee vote, it has now been years since I have seen any around here.

Our team doesn't have ponies (or stickers) on their helmets.

That's REAL good!

[risinggreen]

Would somebody please post some good news? Other than the student athletic fee vote, it has now been years since I have seen any around here.

Here's some good news. Although Chrysler has declared bankruptcy, they have not yet discontinued Dodge! Well, I guess that's good news to some anyway. Luckily his name is not Pontiac.

[Rudy]

The Rangers are alone in 1st place in the AL West, winners of 5 straight. Pow.

[SilverEagle]

The issues raised here are too far reaching to simply blame Todd Dodge. He was only responsible for one of the four classes figured into the score - although that class is ever-shrinking as we saw again this week. The one constant between the Darrell Dickey and Todd Dodge eras is the leadership of the athletic department. But, because we are doing well in the sports no one watches and which never hope to gain a dime for the department, criticism of the man in charge is off limits.

Some posters will blame the players. This, of course, is stupid because athletes are often let in under less stringent standards than the general student population. So, in many cases, they weren't academically prepared. Athletic departments look past this academic readiness issue, of course, because they believe in the upside of the gamble. It's part of the con game of college athletics - we pretend that because you can play a sport, you can also pass college level classes. We lower the bar, and if you become a superstar, we look like geniuses.

So, across the country, North Texas included, there are these special academic programs, tutors, and watered-down degree programs designed to help these kids get by. But, the bottom line is simple: if a kid has no study skills by the time he or she is 18 or 19 years old, those skills are not going to magically appear overnight. And, if he or she doesn't see the value of it, no amount of "mentoring" or "tutoring" will change it.

At our alma mater, this is compounded even moreso by the fact that we aren't getting the top athletes in the classroom or on the field. Because of our constant and long term disarray in the adminstration, Board, and athletic department regarding what to actually do with the football program (fund and support it fully or not?), we are reduced to taking flyers on coaches, who then must take flyers on many players

In the end, there's no one to fire. The people at the top pf the food chain in Denton wouldn't hire quality replacements anyway. They never have. As alumni, we just simply live with the excuses we've come to know and despise pretty much from the day we set foot on campus. Wherever it is you're going, Go Mean Green...because we don't know, and we know you don't know. But, Go nonetheless.

Excellent points. I would only disagree about the implication that the administration "took a flyer" on all our coaches. The administration got it right when it hired Hayden Fry. But the person that was mainly responsible for hiring him, C.C. "Jitter" Nolan, got run-off not long after Fry left for Iowa. The administration got it right with Corky Nelson, but his talents as a coach were squandered by a stingy and small thinking administration.

Overall, we are victims of our history and culture. After all his hard work to get the "fee" approved by the students, UNTFlyer is getting a hard lesson on the old culture at North Texas. Sadly, a good bit of what his hard work has generated is a lot of public wailing and gnashing of teeth, mostly in the NT Daily, from the "spiritual" sons and grandsons of all these previous small thinking administrations. Hopefully all this negative noise is just the last gasp of our old culture (regarding sports) here at North Texas.

[KRAM1]

Some decent points made here from all views...admin., coaching and player responsibility. It really sits on the shoulders of all three. If progress is, indeed, being made we will see that progress in the next report. Many of the programs at UNT are well above "standard" and can be proud of their academic standing. Football and basketball seem to be the two toughest to handle when it comes to APR, and the men's BB team has done a good job of improving. From the reports I get from "academic insiders" at UNT, we should, indeed, see the promised APR improvement in the next report. In the meantime, we live with what we have. Get over it and get on with it. If you did not expect this level of APR report on the football team, well, you just simply have not been paying that much attention to what's going on academically with the team. Sort of like the "stress test" results just reported for our major banks...if you were paying attention at all, the results are no big surprise. Like the banks, the folks in charge of this have and are dealing with it, and improvements will be seen as promised and as reported.

Of course, there will be those among us who choose to see only the grim, and like me, those who like to find the "silver linings". Sure, "we got issues" at UNT. Fine, fix 'em and move on. It's the off season and it's boring with no college football, so folks get all charged up over this stuff and see "no progress" and evil lurking around the UNT program. OK, fine, so be it. I'll just wait and see what positives develop on the field and in the classroom this year. Good things for both, I believe, but we'll see. If things are truly turning around, we should definitely see that this year.

GO MEAN GREEN!

[Charlie NT 73]

I agree with Silver Eagle, and also with many of Fake Lonnie's

points. (What? I actually stated I agreed with Lonnie!)

I have been around for a long time. I have seen adminstrations

and adminstrators come and go. I do blame past adminstrators

and their adminstations, for not supporting NT, and the NT athletic

programs. Well, the past adminstrations and adminstrators attitudes

and mistakes, are still haunting and following NT. Now, NT has a

very pro athletics president, a supportaive adminstration, and a

very good athletic director that are dedicated to changing the past

views and attitudes, and moving NT forward.

Blaming Coach Dodge for past academic performance is

not fair. Penalizing NT football for past academic performance is

not fair either, but, that is the way the APR game is played.

The football team will deal with the scholarship loses. The coaching

staff, players, and the NT adminstrators, will keep the program going.

[untjim1995]

The issues raised here are too far reaching to simply blame Todd Dodge. He was only responsible for one of the four classes figured into the score - although that class is ever-shrinking as we saw again this week. The one constant between the Darrell Dickey and Todd Dodge eras is the leadership of the athletic department. But, because we are doing well in the sports no one watches and which never hope to gain a dime for the department, criticism of the man in charge is off limits.

Some posters will blame the players. This, of course, is stupid because athletes are often let in under less stringent standards than the general student population. So, in many cases, they weren't academically prepared. Athletic departments look past this academic readiness issue, of course, because they believe in the upside of the gamble. It's part of the con game of college athletics - we pretend that because you can play a sport, you can also pass college level classes. We lower the bar, and if you become a superstar, we look like geniuses.

So, across the country, North Texas included, there are these special academic programs, tutors, and watered-down degree programs designed to help these kids get by. But, the bottom line is simple: if a kid has no study skills by the time he or she is 18 or 19 years old, those skills are not going to magically appear overnight. And, if he or she doesn't see the value of it, no amount of "mentoring" or "tutoring" will change it.

At our alma mater, this is compounded even moreso by the fact that we aren't getting the top athletes in the classroom or on the field. Because of our constant and long term disarray in the adminstration, Board, and athletic department regarding what to actually do with the football program (fund and support it fully or not?), we are reduced to taking flyers on coaches, who then must take flyers on many players

In the end, there's no one to fire. The people at the top pf the food chain in Denton wouldn't hire quality replacements anyway. They never have. As alumni, we just simply live with the excuses we've come to know and despise pretty much from the day we set foot on campus. Wherever it is you're going, Go Mean Green...because we don't know, and we know you don't know. But, Go nonetheless.

TFLF,

Great post--maybe the most accurate post I have read in a long time regarding our cycle of repitition at UNT regarding football. Sometimes, I wonder why this school even keeps football around at this level. So little support--both in dollars and in fanbase--make the old nestor views very difficult to beat. If this stadium gets built by 2012, then I will truly believe that we want to stay at the FBS level. But, if it doesn't, I fear that this program won't be around down the road.

I think sometimes we all fool ourselves into believeing that the student body voted for big changes with the stadium vote in the fall, but I think the overwhelming number of people who didn't vote in the election fall more in line with the NO voter than the YES voter. Now, that is not a reason for the fee to be overturned, but it does speak to the fact that the stadium still faces a lot of hurdles before we can get this going. This isn't even considering the fact that fundraising hasn't exactly boomed, either. Tthe only way that this program will ever be anything other than a Bottom 20 Team is if the administration and BOR decide that the "flyer" approach for a head coach is not the way to go, but instead they go out and get a Coach Fry-type guy with skins on the wall. Otherwise, you will continue to get coordinators from non-BCS schools and HS head coaches here at UNT.

[FirefightnRick]

After all his hard work to get the "fee" approved by the students, UNTFlyer is getting a hard lesson on the old culture at North Texas. Sadly, a good bit of what his hard work has generated is a lot of public wailing and gnashing of teeth, mostly in the NT Daily, from the "spiritual" sons and grandsons of all these previous small thinking administrations. Hopefully all this negative noise is just the last gasp of our old culture (regarding sports) here at North Texas.

Isn't that the truth? Does anyone here remember RV's speech at, I believe it was "The House of Blues" prior to the first bowl game down in New Orleans in '01, when during his peptalk about the new North Texas and how things were changing he stated...."This isn't your Grandad's North Texas", and some dude in attendance got visibly upset and offended and complained?

Only at North Texas.

Rick

[NT80]

Isn't that the truth? Does anyone here remember RV's speech at, I believe it was "The House of Blues" prior to the first bowl game down in New Orleans in '01, when during his peptalk about the new North Texas and how things were changing he stated...."This isn't your Grandad's North Texas", and some dude in attendance got visibly upset and offended and complained?

Only at North Texas.

Rick

The City of Denton is much the same. Many of the old nestors resist change and do not want any spotlight on UNT or the town. They would prefer if folks just passed through on the highway and didn't stop.