Wsj On The Declassified Justice Department Memos

[UNTLifer]

Do you care what our intelligence services do to obtain information to protect US citizens against Catholic-raised terrorist like Timothy McVeigh. Does he have the same Civil Right's as the Buddist terrorist or the Wican terrorist. Torture is torture no matter if it is done on an American or a Muslim, Buddist, Wican or any religion. The third and Fourth Geneva Convention officially agree not to torture protected persons (

POWs and enemy civilians) in armed conflicts. Torture is also prohibited by the United Nations Convention Against Torture, which has been ratified by 145 states.

Timothy McVeigh was a citizen of the United States and while his actions were terroristic in nature he was afforded his rights as a citizen.

The 911 terrorists committed an act of war against the U.S. and if waterboarding was used to gather information and thwart an attach on Los Angeles and uncover a terrorist cell in the U.S. then let the water flow! The media needs to stay off of the battlefield and out of our methods of gathering information from people that want to see an end to our country.

Since our opponent chooses to kidnap innocent people and decapitate them, I find waterboarding guilty parties to terrorist attacks quite humane.

Edited April 23, 2009 by UNTLifer

[UNTLifer]

Agreed. Sixth months is more than enough time to figure out what to do with your drunken mistake/incestious rape child.

So what is the appropriate amount of time to allow the murder of an unborn child?

I heard both of my son's hearts beat at 5 weeks. That will change your point of view forever.

[BeanCounterGrad'03]

I heard both of my son's hearts beat at 5 weeks. That will change your point of view forever.

I heard and saw the heartbeat of my first child a couple months ago at about 8 weeks. While it was a beautiful, wonderful experience (I was on the verge of crying ), it hasn't changed my POV on abortion.

Oh, and to answer you question, I personally believe that abortion should only be allowed during the first trimester or maybe just the first 10 weeks. That should allow plenty of time for the woman to know she is pregnant and have a couple/few weeks to mull the choices over. After that time, keeping the child or adopting out should be the only choices.

Edited April 23, 2009 by BeanCounterGrad'03

[Censored by Laurie]

I heard both of my son's hearts beat at 5 weeks. That will change your point of view forever.

Oh...I can actually do you one better (PM if you're interested). It hasn't changed my point of view.

[oldguystudent]

This must be up for different interpretations. I always thought it was absolute.

"You have heard it said, `an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' But I say to you, do not set yourself in violent or revengeful resistance against an evildoer."

[UNT90]

Timothy McVeigh was a citizen of the United States and while his actions were terroristic in nature he was afforded his rights as a citizen.

And don't forget, terrorist captured outside our borders have no right to our legal system, and no rights under the Geniva (Sp) convention. This is why military tribunals were created and the terrorist were sent to Guantonamo Bay, Cuba (not American soil).

The far left conveniently forgets this when they rant for terrorists rights.

[meangreenbob]

Can you imagine the laughter from within that must have been tormenting the king of Jordan as Obama stood there in front of him the other day and criminalized those within the CIA and their lawyers over this so called "Torture", considering what the muslim nations do to their prisoners?

And how about the rest of the memos that describe the success of these procedures? When will B.O. declassify those? I'll answer that, he won't because it would prove him wrong, which he is.

CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style Attack on Los Angeles

You have to wonder what kind of sickness we are now dealling with when the leader of the free world has zero conscience in approving late term abortions on an innocent baby, in which scissors are thrusted into the back of the child's skull as he/she are allowed to suffocate to death, yet claims we are losing "our moral bearings" because three barbarians who's sole purpose in living are to kill as many of us as possible, are put through a tested and successful procedure designed to make them THINK they are drowning without any physical harm done to them whatsoever in order to obtain information needed to keep this nation and it's people safe?

Rick

What a great point and it shows the hypocrisy in the White House. They actually stick a tube into the skull and suck the childs brain out. A cruel and evil procedure and we now have to pay for this with our tax dollars thanks to this fool. I heard it said that this Obamanation may very well bring desolation to America.

Whats so very sad is that too many Americans don't have a clue whats going on in this nation.

Let's remind Americans what happened on 9/11 by showing those airliners flying into the twin towers every time the communist party shows a clip on waterboarding!

[Rudy]

Wow, so much to address. Ok, first, it seems that there are a few on here that love to assume that American is only concerened about the extremist Muslim terror suspects. How conveniently they forget that their beloved president hussien and his cronies recently alerted the government agencies to be on the lookout for the "right wing extremists" and returning Vets. I doubt very seriously many, if any of those are Muslim extremists. We all know that terrorists come from ALL races, religions, beliefs, and political sides. The federal agencies know this too. Second, the "torture" is nothing compared to some other countries. Actually, some may say that the techniques we use are, in fact, just extreme forms or interrogation. Especially when you compare those techniques to cutting off limbs. Too many assume that interrogation only involves sitting and chatting. Sorry, but with these people, having James Lipton treating them like they are on "Inside the Actors Studio" isnt going to gain you any information. Also, the ones who conduct the "torture" are people who know what the hell they are doing. Most likely, they have been trained in the art of interrogation and studied what can be used to make suspects talk. Half if not most of the most effective "torture" is not putting the suspect in any danger, but making them think they are in danger. The intelligence community isnt just picking up geeks off of the street and calling them suspects and interrogating them. The people who are treated as suspects most likely have information.

The UN is a freaking joke.

We are one of the few countries that actually abide by the Genieva Convention, and the terrorists know that and hide behind it while they kill thousasns, conseuently millions of innocent people. Im not saying we should not hold ourselves to a higher standard, but we shouldnt allow it to make us weaker.

Edited April 24, 2009 by Rudy

[FirefightnRick]

3. Are the original "Bush" government lawyers going to be procecuted for supporting the defined "torture?" Somehow I believe they are even though the article says no.

I just don't see it happening. Especially now that we are finding out that Stretch Pelosi among others in congress knew about it long ago.

.....In September 2002, four members of Congress met in secret for a first look at a unique CIA program designed to wring vital information from reticent terrorism suspects in U.S. custody. For more than an hour, the bipartisan group, which included current House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), was given a virtual tour of the CIA's overseas detention sites and the harsh techniques interrogators had devised to try to make their prisoners talk.

Among the techniques described, said two officials present, was waterboarding, a practice that years later would be condemned as torture by Democrats and some Republicans on Capitol Hill. But on that day, no objections were raised. Instead, at least two lawmakers in the room asked the CIA to push harder, two U.S. officials said.....

Rick

[UNTLifer]

I heard and saw the heartbeat of my first child a couple months ago at about 8 weeks. While it was a beautiful, wonderful experience (I was on the verge of crying ), it hasn't changed my POV on abortion.

Oh, and to answer you question, I personally believe that abortion should only be allowed during the first trimester or maybe just the first 10 weeks. That should allow plenty of time for the woman to know she is pregnant and have a couple/few weeks to mull the choices over. After that time, keeping the child or adopting out should be the only choices.

So after your experience, in bold above, you still would support abortion, or the murdering of unborn children as long as it is during the first trimester or maybe just the first 10 weeks?! Sorry, I just don't see how you could support it.

CBL: PM your story to me.

[Rudy]

And don't forget, terrorist captured outside our borders have no right to our legal system, and no rights under the Geniva (Sp) convention. This is why military tribunals were created and the terrorist were sent to Guantonamo Bay, Cuba (not American soil).

The far left conveniently forgets this when they rant for terrorists rights.

Also, the Genieva Convention was designed to apply to nathions. Terrorist organizations are not governments, therefore it does not apply.

[BeanCounterGrad'03]

Edited April 24, 2009 by BeanCounterGrad'03

[UNTLifer]

So after your experience, in bold above, you still would support abortion, or the murdering of unborn children as long as it is during the first trimester or maybe just the first 10 weeks?!

Yes (nice use of the word murder...bravo),

Sorry, but I define abortion as the murder of an unborn child. I didn't use the word murder for shock value or to garner applause, it is just a term I find clearly defines abortion.

Now I would be curious to know the reasons given for abortion and how many are due to being raped vs. getting pregnant because they were not responsible when they jumped in the sack.

I didn't mean to highjack the thread, so feel free to PM me.

To get us back on track:

.....In September 2002, four members of Congress met in secret for a first look at a unique CIA program designed to wring vital information from reticent terrorism suspects in U.S. custody. For more than an hour, the bipartisan group, which included current House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), was given a virtual tour of the CIA's overseas detention sites and the harsh techniques interrogators had devised to try to make their prisoners talk.

Among the techniques described, said two officials present, was waterboarding, a practice that years later would be condemned as torture by Democrats and some Republicans on Capitol Hill. But on that day, no objections were raised. Instead, at least two lawmakers in the room asked the CIA to push harder, two U.S. officials said.....

Yes, I find this quite interesting and would love to hear Ms. Pelosi try to talk her way out of this one, or have Obama explain this without the use of teleprompters.

Edited April 24, 2009 by UNTLifer

[FirefightnRick]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...9042403339.html

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Porter J. Goss: Today, I am slack-jawed to read that members claim to have not understood that the techniques on which they were briefed were to actually be employed; or that specific techniques such as "waterboarding" were never mentioned. It must be hard for most Americans of common sense to imagine how a member of Congress can forget being told about the interrogations of Sept. 11 mastermind Khalid Sheik Mohammed. In that case, though, perhaps it is not amnesia but political expedience.

Rick

[MeanGreen61]

Also, the Genieva Convention was designed to apply to nathions. Terrorist organizations are not governments, therefore it does not apply.

Bingo ! I'd love to see what sideline whinners would have to say if they knew that the "harsh treatment" of a know terrorist would be instrumental in saving the life or lives of their close friends or family members. I'll bet that our terrorist enemies are having a good laugh at the bru-ha-ha some here are raising over the harsh treatment of those poor, misunderstood souls who only want to kill every american they can.

Edited April 26, 2009 by MeanGreen61

[Guest GrayEagleOne]

Force the prisoners to listen to repeated BeeGees songs 24/7.

How about just one hour of hip-hop music per day at the decibels that most of it is played? Now that's torture!