Councilman Walks Away From Mortgage

KRAM1 · April 20, 2009

MSNBC Headline: "Detroit Councilman Walks Away From Mortgage"

You got it...Detroit Councilman, Kwame Kenyatta, who happens to be running for mayor in Detroit, "walks" his mortgage. Kenyatta is a democrat by the way. Maybe he has done several of Obama's cabinet members "one better" by not paying either his taxes or his mortgage. I wouldn't doubt the possibility, but can't say for certain. But, it is certain he is "walking" his responsibility to the bank, his neighborhood and his city. The link below should take you to the article. Nice leadership, wouldn't you say? The raweson he gives is NOT that he is in a inancial bind, but that the home's value has dropped below the outstanding mortgage balance. Nice reason...seems lots of cars that are financed do the same thing after being driven off the showroom floor. I guess folks should just drive them for awhile and "walk away". Works for Kwame. hey, if he didn't/doesn't pay income taxes, surely he could afford his mortgage, right?

You just can't make this stuff up. I think the guy may no longer be in good shape to run for mayor of Detroit, but sure seems like the kind of guy Obama likes for a cabinet post.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30311735?GT1=43001

untbowler · April 20, 2009

MSNBC Headline: "Detroit Councilman Walks Away From Mortgage"
You got it...Detroit Councilman, Kwame Kenyatta, who happens to be running for mayor in Detroit, "walks" his mortgage. Kenyatta is a democrat by the way. Maybe he has done several of Obama's cabinet members "one better" by not paying either his taxes or his mortgage. I wouldn't doubt the possibility, but can't say for certain. But, it is certain he is "walking" his responsibility to the bank, his neighborhood and his city. The link below should take you to the article. Nice leadership, wouldn't you say? The raweson he gives is NOT that he is in a inancial bind, but that the home's value has dropped below the outstanding mortgage balance. Nice reason...seems lots of cars that are financed do the same thing after being driven off the showroom floor. I guess folks should just drive them for awhile and "walk away". Works for Kwame. hey, if he didn't/doesn't pay income taxes, surely he could afford his mortgage, right?
You just can't make this stuff up. I think the guy may no longer be in good shape to run for mayor of Detroit, but sure seems like the kind of guy Obama likes for a cabinet post.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30311735?GT1=43001

Sadly he will probably get elected Mayor of Detroit.

GreenMachine · April 22, 2009

Sadly he will probably get elected Mayor of Detroit.

and thus Detroit will remain a toilet bowl of a city

April 22, 2009

Mark... come on man! You really want to be that big of a troll?

Without searching too hard, I can find cases of republicans walking away from their mortgages/cars/etc.

GreenMachine · April 22, 2009

Mark... come on man! You really want to be that big of a troll?
Without searching too hard, I can find cases of republicans walking away from their mortgages/cars/etc.

yes or no, does that make this situation right? Please post these cases that you talk about.

FirefightnRick · April 22, 2009

Mark... come on man! You really want to be that big of a troll?
Without searching too hard, I can find cases of republicans walking away from their mortgages/cars/etc.

Kram didn't come up with that story on his own, and just like so many times when Republicans were highlighted, he mentioned the above with his party, which was also mentioned in the report. Troll? I thought a Troll ......"in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion"...... And I would add to that mostly, all done "Anonymously". Countless members of GMG.com, including donors, season ticket holders and MeanGreenClub members know Kram personally and greatly respect his membership of ths family? He may be many things which some disagree with, but a Troll he is not.

Rick

Edited April 22, 2009 by FirefightnRick

April 22, 2009

yes or no, does that make this situation right? Please post these cases that you talk about.

Wait, what? Is it right that a DEMOCRAT walked away from his mortgage? Or does it make it right that both sides do it? Or does it make it right that KRAM is trolling?

You lost me.

My opinion? They are all grownups in this situation. He didn't break the law. The bank has their property + all his payments that he made over the years and he has his freedom to move on. If he can't viably make this house payment, and he can't sell it for enough to cover his loan, then he must do what is best for his family. The bad loans and already foreclosed houses have driven down his house value so much that he is in this situation. Is he to blame for risky speculative housing market/derivative investments on wall street? Should the bank have given a loan to a person that may not have been able to pay AND on a property that may lose half its value? Both sides aren't smelly rosy.

I have known people over the years that have turned their cars in when they could no longer make the payments. Personally, I think it is tacky. They shouldn't have taken out the loans in the first place... but damn... who doesn't see things in 20/20 later on?

With all that said, I can't see myself in that situation, but who can really say. Just last year when I sold my house and bought another one, I didn't go crazy and buy some house that I may not be able to afford if I were to lose my job.

I am sure that someone on this board has walked away from a house before.. Doesn't seem too uncommon, republican or democrat.

greenminer · April 22, 2009

Kram didn't come up with that story on his own, and just like so many times when Republicans were highlighted, he mentioned the above with his party, which was also mentioned in the report. Troll? I thought a Troll ......"in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion"...... And I would add to that mostly, all done "Anonymously". Countless members of GMG.com, including donors, season ticket holders and MeanGreenClub members know Kram personally and greatly respect his membership of ths family? He may be many things which some disagree with, but a Troll he is not.
Rick

I think in its most general sense, to troll means to start shit up. Hairs can be split, but Kram is basically trying pick an argument for the sake of argument. My honest opinion, and I don't mean this as a personal attack on Kram because I have been more understanding of him as I see where he comes from, but I find it hard to believe this was posted with some kind of intent for intellectual discussion/debate.

He took an opportunity to throw a democrat under the bus, maybe to get a laugh, when republicans can be found guilty of the same fault.

Edited April 22, 2009 by greenminer

April 22, 2009

Kram didn't come up with that story on his own, and just like so many times when Republicans were highlighted, he mentioned the above with his party, which was also mentioned in the report. Troll? I thought a Troll ......"in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion"...... And I would add to that mostly, all done "Anonymously". Countless members of GMG.com, including donors, season ticket holders and MeanGreenClub members know Kram personally and greatly respect his membership of ths family? He may be many things which some disagree with, but a Troll he is not.
Rick

A troll doesn't have to be anonymous. Nor do they have to post something false or made up. They can make posts purposely slanted to get a rise out of the community at large.

Also, the word 'troll' isn't always a noun. He may just be trolling, without being a troll. No? He knew he would get someone's goat with his topic/title.

Let's say that instead of democrat, he focused on the person being black. And said, "wonder what color he is!?1" ... trolling?

KRAM1 · April 22, 2009

Sorry, John Denver, it was the fact that an elected democrat official walked away from his mortgage BECAUSE the value had decreased below his mortgage amount. The article said nothing about his being able or unable to pay the mortgage, nor did he. Sure Republicans, democrats, Independents, etc. have walked away from mortgages, but how many elected officials simply because of a decrease in value???? Heck, my house is appraised at a lower value than it was a few years ago...great...less taxes to pay...but I am not walking away from it because of a lower value.

John Denver, sometimes you have to really read the post...and maybe think about it a little bit. I will admit to being "guilty" of "jumping the gun" on some posts...and rightly being called to task by my fellow GMG.com'ers for not realizing what was really being said...and even if it were said in jest....so, read and think a bit before going on your Troll hunt.

Edited April 22, 2009 by KRAM1

KRAM1 · April 22, 2009

I think in its most general sense, to troll means to start shit up. Hairs can be split, but Kram is basically trying pick an argument for the sake of argument. My honest opinion, and I don't mean this as a personal attack on Kram because I have been more understanding of him as I see where he comes from, but I find it hard to believe this was posted with some kind of intent for intellectual discussion/debate.

Intellectual discussion/debate????? On GMG.Com???????? An argumant for argument's sake???????? Now that would be me positing something about soccer vs baseball! Come on greenminer...and, by the way...no offense taken. It's too much fun to get upset about! :lol: :lol:

April 22, 2009

Sorry, John Denver, it was the fact that an elected democrat official walked away from his mortgage BECAUSE the value had decreased below his mortgage amount. The article said nothing about his being able or unable to pay the mortgage, nor did he. Sure Republicans, democrats, Independents, etc. have walked away from mortgages, but how many elected officials simply because of a decrease in value???? Heck, my house is appraised at a lower value than it was a few years ago...great...less taxes to pay...but I am not walking away from it because of a lower value.
John Denver, sometimes you have to really read the post...and maybe think about it a little bit. I will admit to being "guilty" of "jumping the gun" on some posts...and rightly being called to task by my fellow GMG.com'ers for not realizing what was really being said...and even if it were said in jest....so, read and think a bit before going on your Troll hunt.

Did I offend you with accusing you of trolling with the party line talk? I apologize for your hurt feelings. You know we are all in jest here on this board. I respect my right wing gmg brothers.

I did read the article and based my comments on it.

The article says this: "Bought for $225,000, the home nose-dived in value to $100,000, according to Kenyatta. Its manageable $2,600-a-month mortgage soon was about to soar about $1,000."

The mortgage is about to go up ~60% beyond the "manageable" point.

You would still pay and EXTRA $12,000 a year to stay in a house that you can't tell for anywhere near your mortgage?

KRAM1 · April 22, 2009

Did I offend you with accusing you of trolling with the party line talk? I apologize for your hurt feelings. You know we are all in jest here on this board. I respect my right wing gmg brothers.
I did read the article and based my comments on it.
The article says this: "Bought for $225,000, the home nose-dived in value to $100,000, according to Kenyatta. Its manageable $2,600-a-month mortgage soon was about to soar about $1,000."
The mortgage is about to go up ~60% beyond the "manageable" point.
You would still pay and EXTRA $12,000 a year to stay in a house that you can't tell for anywhere near your mortgage?

Yep...if I signed the mortage and was capable of reading what I signed...as I assumed Kwame was. The guy is employed...refinance...or is his credit so bad because he may have "walked" other debts that he can't? So, where's he going? The obligation to pay a debt is not based on the value of the underlying collateral. Do you think all homes that have experienced a decrease in value lately will always remain "undervalued"? I tend to think that as the economy regains its footing that home values and resale markets will respond accordingly. They have in the past and I see no reason why they will not again follow the same pattern. Lots of folks made a ton of money the last time this happened by buying and holding. Lots of homes being refinanced these days...my kid even refinanced his home in Virginia to lower his payment. Guess what...it's worth less than he paid for it, it is in a very depressed market, has been on the "for sale" listings for close to a year now, and he has not been able to live in it or rent it that whole time (he is in the militray and was transferred).....and...wait...wait for it...he continues to pay the mortgage along with the rent on his current residence on the other side of the country (Washington state). He was faced with the same situation as Kwame, but chose a different path. You see, it can be done. Again, no indication in the story that Kwame could not afford the mortgage...even at the revised rate. Go figure.

And, JohnDenver...no offense taken at all...see my post to greenminer...I should have included you in the same "no offense" taken line.

yyz28 · April 22, 2009

Interesting that property values are dropping by half in states controlled by Democrats, isn't it? ...just sayin'.

Censored by Laurie · April 22, 2009

Interesting that property values are dropping by half in states controlled by Democrats, isn't it? ...just sayin'.

I think this fact is more interesting...its fucking Detroit!

Perhaps property values might go up if Ford and Chevy would make decent cars

hickoryhouse · April 22, 2009

I think this fact is more interesting...its fucking Detroit!
Perhaps property values might go up if Ford and Chevy would make decent cars

They Do

it is chrysler who doesnt...

All kidding aside it isn't the product that is killing the american car company, it is monitarily destructive contracts and decisions that they have made, the history of crappy cars over the past twenty years or so doesn't help the reputation much but when your profit margins are razor thin at best and you are saddled with oppressive UAW contracts that to much for people who are not productive it makes it hard to make any money.

But i digress..

meangreenacct · April 22, 2009

Yep...if I signed the mortage and was capable of reading what I signed...as I assumed Kwame was. The guy is employed...refinance...or is his credit so bad because he may have "walked" other debts that he can't? So, where's he going? The obligation to pay a debt is not based on the value of the underlying collateral. Do you think all homes that have experienced a decrease in value lately will always remain "undervalued"? I tend to think that as the economy regains its footing that home values and resale markets will respond accordingly. They have in the past and I see no reason why they will not again follow the same pattern. Lots of folks made a ton of money the last time this happened by buying and holding. Lots of homes being refinanced these days...my kid even refinanced his home in Virginia to lower his payment. Guess what...it's worth less than he paid for it, it is in a very depressed market, has been on the "for sale" listings for close to a year now, and he has not been able to live in it or rent it that whole time (he is in the militray and was transferred).....and...wait...wait for it...he continues to pay the mortgage along with the rent on his current residence on the other side of the country (Washington state). He was faced with the same situation as Kwame, but chose a different path. You see, it can be done. Again, no indication in the story that Kwame could not afford the mortgage...even at the revised rate. Go figure.
And, JohnDenver...no offense taken at all...see my post to greenminer...I should have included you in the same "no offense" taken line.

Kram,

This is no statement at to whether his actions were right or wrong, but refinancing is not an option. No bank would allow you to refinance a $200K mortgage on a $100K house. There is no collateral for them as they would be risking $200K for $100K house.

KRAM1 · April 22, 2009

Kram,
This is no statement at to whether his actions were right or wrong, but refinancing is not an option. No bank would allow you to refinance a $200K mortgage on a $100K house. There is no collateral for them as they would be risking $200K for $100K house.

You can always go back to the same lender and try to negotiate a different rate structure. As a 30+ year banker, I have been witness to many re-structures to avoid foreclosue. But, of course, both the bank and the borrower must be "willing partners". The borrower certainly must have the necessary "cash flow"...as loans are repaid by cash flow not collateral...something borrowers often forget...and have been paying "on time and as agreed". The bank has to be willing to re-structure under the calculated belief that they are much better served staying out of foreclosure. It does happen and it can work out quite well for both the borrower and the bank.

Tough times mean tough decisions...not easy ones such as "walking away" from an obligation when you are really able to pay...you jkust don't want to! Sad. Perhaps if the "full story" were known, views might be different, but on the surface and with the info given, this looks like a jerk walking a debt because "other people are doing it" and he can get "cover" to be able to claim "victim status"...."It's not my fault, it's the fault of the economy and the bank who forced me to sign a loan that I did not understand". Sigh........

UNTLifer · April 22, 2009

Mark... come on man! You really want to be that big of a troll?
Without searching too hard, I can find cases of republicans walking away from their mortgages/cars/etc.

Troll? Would that be a personal attack against a poster? Just curious.

GreenBat · April 22, 2009

Troll? Would that be a personal attack against a poster? Just curious.

No, but calling him a douchebag right wing troll would be. But He didn't call KRAM a douchebag right wing troll. But he could have because he is an admininstrator and he makes the rules for the douchebag right wing trolls out there. But he also enforces the rules that the douchebag left wing troll's have to follow. And if you are a douchebag left wing troll, like many on this board accuse me of being, you must follow the rules.

yyz28 · April 22, 2009

Perhaps property values might go up if Ford and Chevy would make decent cars

Another fine myth...

GM & Ford rivals Toyota/Honda in quality and customer satisfaction - See JD Power.

oldguystudent · April 22, 2009

Another fine myth...
GM & Ford rivals Toyota/Honda in quality and customer satisfaction - See JD Power.

I've owned two Mazdas (pre-ford partnership era) and a Honda in my life. Aside from that, I've had four company vehicles, one Dodge and three Fords. Maybe it's just luck of the draw for me, but the three Japanese vehicles were just all around more reliable than the four American vehicles. The biggest difference between the two groups, I have to admit, is in the power. The American vehicles were all much more powerful than the Japanese vehicles. That, however, has never been important to me. I'm a point A to point B kind of guy who neither needs to practice his NASCAR allegiance on the tollway nor sees a vehicle as a visible extension of his manhood.

My theory on the quality difference is this. We know that the technology amongst the world's auto manufacturers is pretty much the same across the board. I think the difference is that Hideke the Japanese auto worker has more stringent production specs and takes more responsibility to stay within them than does Steve the UAW guy. I have no basis in fact whatsoever to support my theory.

April 23, 2009

Troll? Would that be a personal attack against a poster? Just curious.

No.

KRAM1 · April 23, 2009

No.

I certainly agree. :lol: :lol: :lol: Hey, someone wake up the flicker worm and introduce it to Greenbats computer! Do us all a favor, PLEASE! But, no offense of course, and I am certainly not directing that comment to GreenBat...how could anyone think that? :huh: :innocent:

forevereagle · April 23, 2009

I've owned two Mazdas (pre-ford partnership era) and a Honda in my life. Aside from that, I've had four company vehicles, one Dodge and three Fords. Maybe it's just luck of the draw for me, but the three Japanese vehicles were just all around more reliable than the four American vehicles. The biggest difference between the two groups, I have to admit, is in the power. The American vehicles were all much more powerful than the Japanese vehicles. That, however, has never been important to me. I'm a point A to point B kind of guy who neither needs to practice his NASCAR allegiance on the tollway nor sees a vehicle as a visible extension of his manhood.
My theory on the quality difference is this. We know that the technology amongst the world's auto manufacturers is pretty much the same across the board. I think the difference is that Hideke the Japanese auto worker has more stringent production specs and takes more responsibility to stay within them than does Steve the UAW guy. I have no basis in fact whatsoever to support my theory.

I think that American cars are also designed with planned obsolescence and maintenance costs. All part of making more money.