Obama Bows To King Of Saudia Arabia

KRAM1 · April 8, 2009

You have first hand experience that I do not. I've never been inside a Mosque nor have I had a conversation with an Iman, so I'm curious about a few things.
Inside the Mosque, where were the women situated in relation to the men? What were they wearing? Were the other followers you conversed with men, women or both?
Are gays and lesbians welcome inside the Mosque?
What was the Imam's position on radical Islamic terrorists activities? Did he (or does he now) publically condem the 9/11 attacks? Does he disagree with the goals of Islamic fundamentalists or just their methods? Did you happen to discuss his positon on the role of Shari’ah law and if it has a place in the U.S. legal justice system?
Keith

I doubt that you will get many answers here...but, you know how women are treated so you probably have that answer. As far as the "law" goes, you did see the response to the recent stoning of a teenage girl, right? Yep, said it was all within the law and perfectly fine under Shari'ah law. Not that the Imam mentioned in the post was the one providing the answer. Don't mean that...don't know. It seems sad to me how a few radicals can corrupt one of the world's largest religious bases into something that it, for the mainstream believer, is certainly not. Sad. How so few can mess it up for so many...often that happens when the "many" turn a blind eye to the "radicals" and "reactionaries".

oldguystudent · April 8, 2009

You have first hand experience that I do not. I've never been inside a Mosque nor have I had a conversation with an Iman, so I'm curious about a few things.
Inside the Mosque, where were the women situated in relation to the men? What were they wearing? Were the other followers you conversed with men, women or both?
Are gays and lesbians welcome inside the Mosque?
What was the Imam's position on radical Islamic terrorists activities? Did he (or does he now) publically condem the 9/11 attacks? Does he disagree with the goals of Islamic fundamentalists or just their methods? Did you happen to discuss his positon on the role of Shari’ah law and if it has a place in the U.S. legal justice system?
Keith

I haven't been inside a church for a long time. I haven't spoken with a preacher or pastor in a long time, so I'm curious about a few things.

What were the stated roles of men and women both inside the church and at home?

Are gays and lesbians welcomed inside the church?

What was the preacher/pastor's position on Christian activities such as blowing up abortion clinics? Does he disagree with the goals of Christian fundamentalist or just their methods? Did you happen to discuss his position on the role of Biblical law and if it has a place in the U.S. legal justice system?

Six of one, half dozen of the other I say. I don't care what religion it's coming from. If it's encroaching on the legal system, and therefore my personal life, I'm against it. As the good Judeo/Christian Lord would say, keep it in the closet buddy!

forevereagle · April 8, 2009

For me, I do not think the President of the US should bow to any other world political leader. Just like the US flag should NEVER be flown lower than any other national flag...NEVER! The guy is trying way too hard to show the world that he has brought "change" to the US. Way too hard. And, in doing so is showing himself to be both naive and weak as a president. I do not believe the president needs to be "superior" to other world leaders, but NEVER subserviant as a bow implies in this case. Amazing what this president will do to try to be "liked" and popular at home and abroad. Sort of like the parents who want to be their child's friend. Seldom works out very well when the time for discipline, teaching and leadership comes up in the relationship.
Just because the national and international press swoon every time you appear does not make you an effective world leader. That remains very much in doubt at this point with this president...we'll see where it leads. I wish him the greatest of successes, but, the jury is definitely out so far!

I have a question - how do you feel about the Olympics? Every time an athlete places second or third, the American flag is flown below that of one or two other countries. Does that mean that we should tell the Olympic games to F-off because we don't allow our flag to be flown below any other sovereign nation under any circumstance?

(Everything that follows is not directed specifically at KRAM)

Are we too proud (see arrogant) to show any other country or world leader the slightest bit of respect? That might explain why the rest of the world HATES US. We want to tell them how to live their lives and we don't want to show them any respect. How do we feel about the countries and people that do the same to us? Come on people, if we want to be a part of the world, maybe we should be a little more respectful. I don't see this as a big issue, but if you want to criticize everything the man does, then you have that right. But maybe you should find more people who agree with you so we don't have to have the same tired argument every day.

Seriously, if all you have is that he is a Muslim or that he is running up the deficit, then maybe you should just have a standard response that you cut and paste into you response. And please, stop posting blog links as backup to your opinions. This goes for both sides. A blog, that is not backed up by facts, is someone's opinon. If they can't show where the information came from, then they are just spouting off. The blog is the new source for conspiracy theories, but they look a little more legitimate.

And for those keeping score I am not a socialist, a democrat, or a republican. I am a moderate, and I am getting tired of both sides, one more than the other (there aren't three, because there are no socialists here that I can see).

Note: all of the preceding was opinion, there was no statement of fact beyond how I feel.

keith · April 8, 2009

I haven't been inside a church for a long time. I haven't spoken with a preacher or pastor in a long time, so I'm curious about a few things.
What were the stated roles of men and women both inside the church and at home?
Are gays and lesbians welcomed inside the church?
What was the preacher/pastor's position on Christian activities such as blowing up abortion clinics? Does he disagree with the goals of Christian fundamentalist or just their methods? Did you happen to discuss his position on the role of Biblical law and if it has a place in the U.S. legal justice system?
Six of one, half dozen of the other I say. I don't care what religion it's coming from. If it's encroaching on the legal system, and therefore my personal life, I'm against it. As the good Judeo/Christian Lord would say, keep it in the closet buddy!

There is a difference between never and long time. For example, until recently I had never been inside a Jewish Synagogue either until I attended the Bah Mitzvah of one of my son's friends. So at least I have some first hand experience with that ceremony. In terms of your questions, I'm not sure if they are rhetorical or you wanted answers. Unfortunately, I'm a lot like you in that it's been a long time for me as well. I have certainly spent time in the church but would not classify myself as "practicing." So, While in no way am I suggesting I'm qualified to answer them, I'll give it a shot. I suspect, however, that things have not changed *that* much from your own experiences.

I'm not aware of any specific, stated roles of men and women inside the church and at home. In the Catholic church, only men are permitted to be priests. In terms of the congregation, men and women and children sit together and are dressed in normal western-style clothing...for the kids these days that might be debatable :-).

As far as I know, the Catholic church regards homosexuality as a sin. They are welcomed inside the church along with all the other sinners. I believe there are some Christian demoninations that are a lot more progressive and allow openly gay ministers/pastors/preachers/elders. Others, not so.

Again, from a Catholic perspecitve, all life is considered sacred and would therefore regard abortion and violent activites such as blowing up abortion clinics as reprehensible actions. Both would be considered sins. I don't know what the goals of a Christian fundamentalist are, but if their actions included violence or killing, the actions would be condemed as heinous.

I'm not aware of any effort, concerted or otherwise, to establish a separate legal structure based on "Biblical law" (I don't know what that is or if it really exists) that would apply only to Christians, or Jews, or Hindus, or whatever like there is for Muslims and Shari’ah law. The U.K., which gave us the edifice of common law - the bedrock and foundation of our legal system, and most of western Europe are already there. Can we be far behind?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/c...icle4749183.ece

Keith

(my opinion or understanding - thanks for reminding us of that forevereagle - corrections welcomed)

KRAM1 · April 8, 2009

I have a question - how do you feel about the Olympics? Every time an athlete places second or third, the American flag is flown below that of one or two other countries. Does that mean that we should tell the Olympic games to F-off because we don't allow our flag to be flown below any other sovereign nation under any circumstance?

Interesting and valid question. I have never worried or thought about the flags position within the context of the Olympic Games medal ceremony. So, as with every rule there seems to be exceptions. Probably could have made you point just as valid without the "F-Off" part. Just saying.

forevereagle · April 8, 2009

Interesting and valid question. I have never worried or thought about the flags position within the context of the Olympic Games medal ceremony. So, as with every rule there seems to be exceptions. Probably could have made you point just as valid without the "F-Off" part. Just saying.

It was for affect. Seems to have worked.

BeanCounterGrad'03 · April 9, 2009

You have first hand experience that I do not. I've never been inside a Mosque nor have I had a conversation with an Iman, so I'm curious about a few things.
Inside the Mosque, where were the women situated in relation to the men? What were they wearing? Were the other followers you conversed with men, women or both?
Are gays and lesbians welcome inside the Mosque?
What was the Imam's position on radical Islamic terrorists activities? Did he (or does he now) publically condem the 9/11 attacks? Does he disagree with the goals of Islamic fundamentalists or just their methods? Did you happen to discuss his positon on the role of Shari’ah law and if it has a place in the U.S. legal justice system?
Keith

Well, when I went, it was at the biggest Mosque in Denver and it was part of a world religions class at my church, so I can't answer all of the above questions (it wasn't an interegation-type of visit). It was over a year ago, but I'll try to remember as best I can.

Women and men could move about freely anywhere in the Mosque. When it came time for the prayer, men prayed on the main floor and women and small children prayed up in the balcony. Myself and the three women I was with were allowed to sit in chair in the corner of the main floor to watch the prayer. Most men and women were dressed in casual western-world attire. All women were wearing head scarfs and they asked the women that were with us to bring and wear head scarfs while in the Mosque. Also, everyone takes their shoes off in the entry way before entering the Mosque.

The other followers we conversed with wandered into the Imam's office, relaxed on his couch and joined in our conversation with the Imam. It was two or three men.

Don't know about homosexuals...didn't discuss it.

None of us directly asked him any of the remaining questions you posted, but I can tell you that one of the first topics he brought up was how hard it has been on his congregation since the terrorist attacks (I believe he said they had to set up a perimeter fence with a locking gate soon after 9/11 because of a few vandalism incidents). He strongly disagreed with what they did and said that they were (in his opinion) misinterpreting the Qur'an. He said what they did goes against many Islamic teachings and said that Islam is a religion of love and respect (for God/Allah and other humans) and peace.

The rest of the conversation with him was finding out about their lifestyle (i.e. family views, how they raise their children, jobs), major holidays, and some of his personal background. We also discussed at length the pilgrimage to Mecca and he showed us some pictures from his journey.

Overall, very interesting and educational. I highly recommend it if you ever get the opportunity (it wasn't hard at all to set up the visit...just called up the Mosque and said we were a small Christian church group doing a world religions study...the Imam was very pleasant and accomodating).

Hope that answered some of your questions.

SilverEagle · April 10, 2009

Would all you had preferred that Obama hold his hand and kiss him. Bush did this when the man was a PRINCE.

http://www.cbseyemobile.com/users/UltraLip...pis1gd32tiqkfg6

Coffee and TV · April 10, 2009

Would all you had preferred that Obama hold his hand and kiss him. Bush did this when the man was a PRINCE.
http://www.cbseyemobile.com/users/UltraLip...pis1gd32tiqkfg6

Kissing each other on the cheek actually would have been the normal custom for someone like King Abdullah. Bowing would have been more appropriate for an Asian leader, specifically Japanese if my memory serves me correctly. Obama got it wrong because of who he bowed to, not because he bowed.

Edited April 10, 2009 by Coffee and TV