Nfl Player Pulled Over Outside Hospital While Rushing To Be With Dying

[Rudy]

I watched the video last night. I have a couple questions. Can an officer really take a person to jail for running a red light? Isn't that just a simple moving violation? If so, it does frighten me a bit that an infraction that warrants a civil fine of $75 from a camera in Frisco can get me a night in the pokey down in Plano/Dallas if either an officer or I happen to have a burr up our butts on any given day.

As for the towing of the car, am I legally responsible to find a marked, legal parking space while immediately stopping the vehicle the second I see the lights come on? What was with the threats to tow the vehicle? I've actually thought about this one driving through Little Elm. I had a police car following me (I'm guessing that he saw the wind cause me to swerve and thought maybe I was drinking), and at certain points on the road, I wondered where I would pull over if he turned on his lights. Is it ok to somehow signal a police car that you're looking for a safe place for both you and him to pull over?

I really see both sides of this issue. I think the office did act within the letter of of the law, but most certainly not the spirit. I think Moats and his family were a tad bit more excited than the news stories care to admit, thus making it more difficult for the officer to assess the situation. Bottom line, the officer is young and somewhat inexperienced. I think he let the job and its power get to him on this one. He did appear to me at time to be creating reasons to provoke Moat. Doesn't necessarily mean that he's a 100% bad cop or that he should never wear the badge again. It does worry me that maybe DPD is sending out under trained and therefore reactionary officers out on the streets both for their own safety and my peace of mind knowing that any interaction I may have with the law will be handled professionally without exception. Guys like that should be riding with an older officer for quite some time before being let out on their own.

You can be taken to jail for almost any violation of the law. Usually for something so minor, officers won't bother because its more of a hassle that its worth. I took one Tuesday night because he had no DL. The Oklahoma one he DID have was suspended and expired. The red light cameras are a civil fine that is billed to the owner of the car, not the driver. If an officer sees you run the red light, you can recieve a citation, and the owner of the vehicle can still recieve the civil fine.

When you are being pulled over, you should immediately find a safe location to pull over, if there is not one available, signal the officer that you acknowledge them, turn on your hazards, slow down, and try to find one ASAP. If none is available, pull off to the side of the road as safe as possible. When Moats parked the car illegally and got out to walk into the hospital, he was parking, not stopping.

DPD officers are not undertrained. They have an 8 month academy, and I think a 4 month field training. Due to their hiring policies, they get more bad officers that other cities. And that is not saying Powell is a bad officer, he just needs some sensitivity training before being allowd back on the streets. But he wont get that chance in Dallas.

Your arguements are, to me, typical of many officers, by the book, and I understand that based upon the dangers you all face on a daily basis, but in this instance, I would have done the same thing if I was Moats.

Using officers shot in the line of duty in one of your posts was a poor example. How many of them were shot at the entrance to a hospital?

The officer should have been the one calm, and Moat's, IMHO, had every right to be upset. It was his, and his family members, last chance to be with a loved one about to die. Have you ever lost a parent or loved one? I have and wasn't given the opportunity to say goodbye, but if I was called and told my father was about to die and I had "x" amount of minutes to see him, I would have flown to the hospital with hazard lights on and carefully run every stop sign and red light I encountered. You only get to say good-bye once.

As far as the videos I gave, they were to accent the things Emmitt pointed out. That you never know who the other person is. You should go back and look up those Videos. The Vetter dash came shows a 76 year old man shooting the trooper as he gets out of the car because he doesnt want a simple seat belt ticket. The Lunsford cam shows 3 guys jumping a 57 year old constable during a rotuine investigation. The Hurst video shows someone stopping his vehicle and opening fire on officers before they can even stop their cars. There is no safe place where someone will not try to attack an officer, not even a hospital. Going by procedure, yes Powell was mostly right. However, at no point, have I said his demeanor was proper. Yes, he should have been calm. He should have possessed the demeanor to calm Moats and quickly find out why they were in such a hurry. Once he found out, he should ave let them go. Yes, Moats should have been upset, and understandably so. However, he, like many others these days have a "sense of entitlement" so to speak. He started yelling instead of trying to remain level headed, which did complicate things. That being said, Powell still should have kept his calm and been able to calm Moats down. I understand why you would have driven the same way as Moats. Like I stated earlier, had you been pulled over, you should stop ASAP and calmly, and quickly, explained the situation. Most likely, the Officer will let you go, and may escort you so you can reach the hospital safely. Or, depending on the area you are, let the PD know that you the road you are on and why you are speeding, etc. We had someone do that and the dispatcher came on the radio and gave the car description, the route of travel, and where they were going and why. But, that doesnt work in an area like Dallas.

Wrong. He incorrectly notified dispatch that he was not in a chase (because that is against DPD pursuit policy) and later told Moats that he could arrest him for fleeing...which, makes it obvious to me he felt he was involved in a chase. He is also being investigated for comments he made to the Plano officer regarding his deliberate mis-wording of an investigation report to justify a police chase in January. And, last but not least, he made "unwarranted threats of arrest" according to Chief Kunkle, who also suggested that the dashcam video will be utilized in the police academy's training curriculum.

Yes he could have arrested him for fleeing. Just becuase he is not driving 80mph doesnt mean he isnt fleeing. He wasnt in chase because the vehicle didnt reach unsafe speeds to flee from the officer. It wasnt dileberate mis-wording. If the officer felt the other vehicle was trying to run him over, then he has the right to word it that way. Just because he said "its how you word it" doesnt mean he was "mis-wording" anything. And I heard no "unwarranted threats of arrest". Keep in mind Kunkle is a politician, not a cop

[UNT90]

Kunkle is reaching for an excuse to fire the officer, which he will do. The officer will be reinstated by the civil service review board in 6 months with full back pay for doing nothing but sitting on his rear for six months. But it is worth the political capital to Kunkle.

Edited March 27, 2009 by UNT90

[Rudy]

Kunkle is reaching for an excuse to fire the officer, which he will do. The officer will be reinstated by the civil service review board in 6 months with full back pay for doing nothing but sitting on his rear for six months. But it is worth the political capital to Kunkle.

I wish he would go play politican in another state.

[Guest JohnDenver]

Kunkle is reaching for an excuse to fire the officer, which he will do. The officer will be reinstated by the civil service review board in 6 months with full back pay for doing nothing but sitting on his rear for six months. But it is worth the political capital to Kunkle.

Or maybe it is the right move, not just "political capital."

[Censored by Laurie]

I wish he would go play politican in another state.

Thats the top cop, the commish, Dallas' number one cop.

[UNT90]

Or maybe it is the right move, not just "political capital."

The point is Kunkle knows that it will be overturned and that the City will pay the officer to sit on his rear for six months.

Kunkle will gamble with the possibility that the publicity will make the officer walk away from police work.

[Rudy]

Thats the top cop, the commish, Dallas' number one cop.

Yeeeaaa. Just because its his title, doesnt mean he is any good.

[UNT90]

Did y'all know that the police chief is elected in two Texas cities? One is Childress, I can't remember the other. I guess this is common practice up north.

At least you have no doubt that your chief is a politician.

Edited March 27, 2009 by UNT90

[gangrene]

Yes he could have arrested him for fleeing. Just becuase he is not driving 80mph doesnt mean he isnt fleeing. He wasnt in chase because the vehicle didnt reach unsafe speeds to flee from the officer.

Yes, he made it perfectly clear what he could do. But that last statement doesn't make any sense to me. If he didn't reach unsafe speeds to flee from the officer, how could he be arrested for fleeing? I'm guessing you're getting technical with the police definitions of the terms, in which case, I think I understand what you are saying. However, Powell stated that the previous "chase" he was involved in didn't reach speeds higher than 30-40 MPH...which would seem to contradict your statements.

It wasnt dileberate mis-wording. If the officer felt the other vehicle was trying to run him over, then he has the right to word it that way. Just because he said "its how you word it" doesnt mean he was "mis-wording" anything. And I heard no "unwarranted threats of arrest". Keep in mind Kunkle is a politician, not a cop

I'm just reporting what I read in today's DMN...not saying I agree/disagree with it. Here's the story in which Kunkle said, "It appears, what he said, to have been contrary to our pursuit policy," Kunkle said, "to where he may have lied about the circumstances under which the pursuit began."

Kunkle said the internal investigation against Powell will focus on conduct reflecting poorly on the department, as well as making unwarranted threats of arrest.

Powell also faces investigation for comments he made to another officer after the incident ended – while the video camera was still rolling. He said he "worded" a report in such a way as to justify a January police chase.

The chief said any one of the charges could lead to dismissal.

Say what you want about Kunkle but he IS the Chief of Police for DPD, which makes him Powell's boss and ultimately accountable for the actions of the entire Dallas PD.

I'd just like to say that it's great to be able to have these type of non UNT and non sports debates with my fellow Mean Green brethren.

[Rudy]

Lol, my chief arrested a dude for fleeing at 20mph. If I had to guess, I'd say the chase that powll was involeved in had the driver try to elude police. Maybe he made a series of turns that signaled he was trying to get away, even though the speeds didnt top 40. Not sure. It really is all about the terminology and how you word it. Im not saying he is lying, he is just articulating it differently.

[H-towngreen]

Sorry but I hope this guy gets the can, he can have fun looking at that tatoo everyday and remember what a dumbass he is. Simple as this...emergency lights on....stops at hospital....talks to hospital staff verifying someone is dying. What else do you need. You can not say that he was on nothing more than a power trip, and wanted to show who was in charge.

[UNTLifer]

Yes, he made it perfectly clear what he could do. But that last statement doesn't make any sense to me. If he didn't reach unsafe speeds to flee from the officer, how could he be arrested for fleeing? I'm guessing you're getting technical with the police definitions of the terms, in which case, I think I understand what you are saying. However, Powell stated that the previous "chase" he was involved in didn't reach speeds higher than 30-40 MPH...which would seem to contradict your statements.

Uh, what about this?

[gangrene]

Lol, my chief arrested a dude for fleeing at 20mph.

LOL, I hope the suspect was either a person on a bicycle or an old person with his hearing aid turned off.

Uh, what about this?

Of course. I was viewing the two terms, chase and flee, as being related. How can you "chase" someone if they are not "fleeing" and how can someone be fleeing if they are not being chased? Powell stated that he was not involved in a chase during his traffic stop with Moats, therefore Moats could not have been fleeing. You can't have one without the other can you? Again, I think the details are within the definitions of the terms as the Dallas PD and/or Texas state law defines them. I also think any good attorney could have had any charges of evading arrest or fleeing dropped, based on the comments of Powell and the fact that only 20 seconds had elapsed from the time Powell turned his lights on until the time Moats stopped his vehicle.

[UNT_playmaker]

For the sake of clarity, the Ice-T and NWA remarks were direct sarcastic responses to Emmitt's prediction of cop hating comments.

Oh no don't worry about it I was just in a bad mood in regards to rappers......

Also Dallas is getting really bad publicity because of this, and its not because of one of Dallas Professional Sports Teams....

[ADLER]

Surprise Surprise

Because of this incident and others in the past, it's a proven fact that all Dallas officers are like this.

[GreenBat]

Surprise Surprise

Because of this incident and others in the past, it's a proven fact that all Dallas officers are like this.

Jeff,

I hope your tongue is planted firmly in your cheek.

[ADLER]

Jeff,

I hope your tongue is planted firmly in your cheek.

Yes,

I was poking fun at people that make those type of generalizations.

[CaribbeanGreen]

Yeeeaaa. Just because its his title, doesnt mean he is any good.

Yeah, but does he like his job?

[Rudy]

NOOO NOOO!!!! That wasn't the question!

[eulesseagle]

IMHO, we all have to admire anyone who is in law enforcement, including emmitt. Split second decisions can mean life or death to the officer and a life time of grief for their families.....just ask the families of those four officers who were killed in Oakland, California last week by a released child rapist pulled over for a traffic violation.

Next time you see a cop thank them. Right or wrong the officer involved in this incident was doing what "he thought" was right by what he saw, what was being said, what was happening and what he was trained to do.

Anyone can second guess after the incident, as everyone can agree, but when an officer is faced with any stop.....which produces, IMHO, s t r e s s, who knows what anyone will do. I'm sure emmitt wishes he could have done some things differently on some of his encounters....it's an ongoing learning process, not only for officers but for ourselves as well.

[H-towngreen]

Story today in DMN about this same officer and how he treated the wife of Zach Thomas. She was taken to jail for and detained for apx. 5 hrs.

This cop can say bye bye to his job.

[emmitt01]

Story today in DMN about this same officer and how he treated the wife of Zach Thomas. She was taken to jail for and detained for apx. 5 hrs.

This cop can say bye bye to his job.

COMPLETE AND TOTAL NON-ISSUE

What Powell did in the case of Zach Thomas' wife, unless he was rude, was justified, by the book and has been done/is being done every day. She was taken to jail because she made an illegal u-turn...and couldn't present valid insurance...and had no registration sticker....and ran a red light. There was another violation (for a total of 5) but I don't feel like going back and re-reading the article because I've already listed four violations. It is common practice to take someone to jail for 3 or more traffic violations. Yes, officers do have the discretion to write you a mountain of tickets but Powell was in no way wrong or violating policy by taking the approach he did.

In fact, there are only two people wrong in this instance:

1)Thomas' wife for making an issue out of this a year after the fact and only now when Powell is in the news.

2)The DMN for running with this story...and sinking to the despicable level of pointing out that Thomas' wife is Hispanic as if it has a thing to do with the story.

[H-towngreen]

COMPLETE AND TOTAL NON-ISSUE

What Powell did in the case of Zach Thomas' wife, unless he was rude, was justified, by the book and has been done/is being done every day. She was taken to jail because she made an illegal u-turn...and couldn't present valid insurance...and had no registration sticker....and ran a red light. There was another violation (for a total of 5) but I don't feel like going back and re-reading the article because I've already listed four violations. It is common practice to take someone to jail for 3 or more traffic violations. Yes, officers do have the discretion to write you a mountain of tickets but Powell was in no way wrong or violating policy by taking the approach he did.

In fact, there are only two people wrong in this instance:

1)Thomas' wife for making an issue out of this a year after the fact and only now when Powell is in the news.

2)The DMN for running with this story...and sinking to the despicable level of pointing out that Thomas' wife is Hispanic as if it has a thing to do with the story.

Whether right or wrong... with this added publicity brought upon him it really doesn't help him in keeping his job.

[Rudy]

Whether right or wrong... with this added publicity brought upon him it really doesn't help him in keeping his job.

kunkle's mind was made up to fire Powell the second this story was publicized. Everything else is just added to slander the officer. david kunkle should have come out in the news and stated that there will be no formal statement or action until the internal investigation was completed. That is if kunkle followed the same policies he sets forth. This issue with Thomas's wife is rediculous. I agree with Emmitt. I also believe that once this has settled down some, Powell will have some nice lawsuits to file.

[GreenBat]

kunkle's mind was made up to fire Powell the second this story was publicized.

I'm wondering why it took more than a shift change for this to come to Kunkle's attention. I have no doubt Powell will be terminated, and rightfully so. I just hope he is not hired by another police department. It would be a shame if his irresposible and uncaring attitude towards the people he is hired to protect, goes unchecked. Powell needs to find a new profession.

I also believe that once this has settled down some, Powell will have some nice lawsuits to file.

On what grounds would he file a lawsuit, being a complete and total douchebag. His actions are not in question. They are on video. He has caused the DPD to become the butt of numerous jokes and his actions gave credence to all Police officers are like this. I realize this was just one instance, but it brings to question why someone so uncaring is in the job of public service.